Remeron (Mirtazapine) Withdrawal Support Group

[[ju...]]

I didnt understand that sentence "And there were a few very long holds - like months - where the Mirt side-effects were subdued enough that I felt I could hold for an extended period of time just to let my nervous system catch up with the changes"

 

What does it mean Dave? Because side effects are very low and easy to bear, you did hold the periods longer intentionally?Going to lower doses,they really disappear?

 

Anyway, i lived more comfortable days(yesterday and today) compared to previous days of stabilization?i hope this process gets lighter in some ways. If it comes, it will come in this way?Anxiety will come to bearable levels,movements in brain will get lower,etc. I wanna found this sentence "What i learned in this process, anxiety in sharp cuts are always harder than anxiety in stabilization"

 

One more thing. Do you think anger damages anxiety?I made a discussion with my wife for a worthless reason and i think this gave me a little discomfort.

 

See you..

 

 

[[no...]]

What does it mean Dave? Because side effects are very low and easy to bear, you did hold the periods longer intentionally?Going to lower doses,they really disappear?

 

juneight, correct the lower i got on the mirtazapine, the easier the side effects of the drug were to tolerate. therefore holding didn't feel like such a big deal and so i held my dose when i felt i needed to. this was especially true when i dropped below 5mg. they really disappear.

 

One more thing. Do you think anger damages anxiety?I made a discussion with my wife for a worthless reason and i think this gave me a little discomfort.

 

i would say yes to this. anger is a natural, but conflictive emotion. a lot of biochemical things happen in our body when we become angry and i do believe that this can intensify the discomfort of symptoms.

 

hang in there,

 

dave

[[Mt...]]

Hello all,

Stopping by here to ask a few questions as I have decided to put my Klonopin taper on hold to focus on the Remeron for a bit.  I actually think the Remeron is making me sicker than the K hence the decision to switch gears as to which one is my priority from a tapering perspective. I am down to about 2mg of Remeron nightly using the eyeball and file technique, however, would Like to tighten up the accuracy a bit as the insomnia sxs are kicking in. 

So my question is how are you guys controlling your taper? Does the Mirt come in liquid form? Does making your own alcohol / water solution work with the Mirt like it does with the Benzos? 

I appreciate any tips or insight you can provide. 

Thanks and take care

MW

 

[[Ja...]]

Mirt does not come in liquid fork in the US. I have a local conpunding pharmacy make me a liquid at 15mg per 5ml. It’s conplicated when tapering two drugs at the same time because you can’t tell which one is makinf you sick if not both. Remeron wothdrawal symptoms are a lot like benzo withdrawal just lighter in severity. It is worth noting that the Ashton manual would say to come off the benzo first and then wait before tapering the antidepressant. That is what most of us here have done. I am conpletely off Xanax for about 8 months now and made my first mirt cut two weeks ago.

[[Po...]]

It’s very easy to make liquid mirtazapine. First get a bottle of OraPlus suspension on Amazon. Mirtazapine will not go into a solution ( it will not dissolve in water) but will go into a suspension. Crush say 45mg of mirtazapine with mortar and pestle and then add 25 ml of OraPlus and mix well. I use a frothing mixer used for making lattes or cappuccinos. Then add 20 ml of distilled water and mix again. You will have a suspension of 1mg/ml.  Place in glass reagent bottle and refrigerate. Shake well each use.

 

Interesting that the Buddie above said their symptoms improved the lower in dose they went. My experience has been the direct opposite. The lower I go the worse I feel, especially in morning when waking up. I feel miserable in the mornings. I’m about ready to go to 1.875 and am thinking of jumping from there. I’m sick n tired of dealing with this crap. Get it done get it over with is my thinking. One last big misery and looking forward to smoother sailing after that.

[[Ja...]]

Hey guys,

              I have been leveling off since the cut. I am about 15 days in. Things are pretty good but I get some weird stuff. I had a weird thing happen to me about an hour ago. I was driving to the store when out of nowhere I got an intense warm feeling in my chest and then felt like I was going to throw up. It was intense and only lasted about 10 seconds and just tapered away over a few monutes. Anyone else ever experience anything like this?

[[ju...]]

Hi jack, this feeling happens to me sometimes, but not with the feeling of throw up.

 

Now, i wanna ask all of you, when a bad thought comes in my mind and especially if i am bad,too, it drags me to another, another to another, then down me to believe as if it is real.Then i find myself in BB. I hate the mornings so. Do you live this kind of things?

 

 

[[Ja...]]

June,

          I know for me personally when I get down I get way down. I feel like everything is going wrong and like nothing will ever go right. This could be withdrawal but if I am being honest with myself I could just be having a bad day. Woke up on the wrong side of the bed so to speak. This is normal. Everyone has these days. It becomes a problem when you have a lot of these days or more bad days than good days. But even when you are having more bad days than good we need to keep reminding ourselves that the good days will return.

 

I have been through a lot in my life and especially this past year with the loss of my daughter. I have learned more about myself this year than I have my entire life. I have also learned a lot about this world of psychiatric drugs and psychological issues. If 13 months ago you told be that by the end of the year I would be in a psych ward I would have though you should be in there right now. Lol. It was impossible. Only crazy people go there. Lol. This is what most people think. What most people do not understand is that you may be one unfortunate circumstance away from hitting your breaking point. You go on some Xanax for sleeping issues and then go into extreme tolerance withdrawal and the doctor’s don’t understand and aren’t willing to help. That was part of my problem. Then there was the fact that I came home from work on a regular boring Thursday and within an hour I found myself standing in the middle of a highway, holding my daughter in my arms screaming for help and saying goodbye. The shock of it still has me shaking and tearing as I type this. There is a point to why I bring this up.

After the meds are behind me I will still carry that scar. And unfortunately, that is one of quite a few traumatic experiences that life has dealt me. I will have deal with the emotional pain of all these scars without my emotional painkillers. I will have to get my shaking self to sleep without a pill. It is easy to blame the meds but we need to remember that no one forced these meds down our throats. They merely put them in our hands. We put them in our mouth and swallowed them down. And that is what is important to remember is why? Why did we do this? Who were we before we before we took that first pill? Are we ready to be that person once again?

 

Clearly, withdrawing from an antidepressant is going to cause bad thoughts and sad feelings. It’s the ying to the yang. These drugs suppress our feelings. The good and the bad. We want off because we want to feel truly happy again. Like ourselves. And we likely will experience a new level of happiness. But we need to remember that there are two sides to every coin. Higher highs mean lower lows. Higher highs are great and easy to accept. What are you doing to prepare yourself for the new lower lows. There will be no magic pill to make then go away.

 

I am a car guy so I will put it in laymans car terms. Lol. If you have a leak in your radiator you have two options. First option is the quick fix, the meds. Or in this case the magic stop leak in a bottle. You just pour it in and voila no more leak. But there are side effects. It starts clogging things up and then maybe your heat stops working and other things get damaged. Some people use it and go 100,000 miles and for others they only make it around the block. Luck of the draw I guess. Then there is option two. Roll your sleeves up and get in there and change or repair that radiator. This is the physical work. This can be finding a good therapist who can help you get to the bottom of your anxieties, fears, depression. Meditating. Exercise is know to elevate mood. For those like myself with sleep issues it means shutting off the electronic devices 2 hours before bed, avoiding caffeine, white noise machine, watching our sugar intake (important for anxiety as well). These are just some examples of things that I do and things that we can do to help us through this. Now, choice three is to just keep on driving and hope the problem just goes away. This usually ends with our engine overheating and us broken down on the side of the road or in many of our cases another stay in the psychiatric unit to start a new med and start this grueling process all over again.

 

My therapist challenges me in this way and I find it very helpful. I can’t fix my radiator without tools and she has been giving the tools to get the job done and I am learning how to use them. June, obviously I am not your therapist, lol, but as your online friend I am curious what work you are doing to prepare for your goal in a life without drugs? I ask this because it directly relates to the question that you have asked here today. And if you are doing anything that I haven’t listed above I would love to hear it because I am always looking for new tools and coping mechanisms.

[[ju...]]

Jack,first,i am too much sad about yoir daughter

Then,i am happy about that you motivate yourself eventhough you lived such a tragedic fact and still live anxiety because of the drugs.

I have two children one of is 5 year girl,the other is 1 year boy. In fact, they should be a motivation source for me, but Jack whenever i look at them i think that they are helpless and unprotected if i wont survive and bla bla bla. When you have chemical anxiety, you cant dream everything in a normal way. For example, i had 15-16 days and i couldnt stabilize until now and i am suffering. Because of this cond., i am asking myself "how Dave and other coped for 3 4 years?", "if the things go worse" bla bla. Then i am finding myself in this way uncontrollably.

You are saying that your therapist is helpful. Do they realy work when you have chemical anxiety? Even if it is so, they tend to believe medicine and big pharma.Because, in this january, i went one of them for 8 times in two months without knowing withdrawal and he said that why did you listen yourself for quitting ADs, not the docs?

I am so sorry,but i see there is only me mostly complaining,there must be a really a way to cope.

[[Ja...]]

My experience with psychologists has been somewhat different. There are some that are pro meds but most focus on life without them. My therapist aksed me the same question a few weeks ago when I told her I was going to start tapering mirt. She said it seemed to be helping me so why would I stop taking it. My answer to her was that the side effects are not worth the therapeutic effects. Simply put, not feeling sad isn’t worth not being able to feel at all. I asked her to please focus on helping me cope through this time and not to worry as much about my depression. I asked her to work through it with me and she agreed and has been doing so. Remember, they work for us. We are their customers, so to speak. If a therapist will not help you according to your guidelines then fire them and hire one who will. That’s my opinion anyway. I find that most therapists are very skeptical of the effects ofbthese meds. This was my experience in my outpatient care where I met many different therapists. I was tapering Xanax at the time. I even had one therapist to pull me to the side and tell me that he had seen many people go through hell with benzos and even told me that my recovery would take a cery long time. He urged me to hang in there. I have a close family member who is a therapist and she feels the same way about these meds. I guess I am kind of saying not to throw the baby out with the bath water on this one.

As far as chemical anxiety vs regular anxiety I am not convinced that there is much difference. I had panic attacks from PTSP after my daughter’s death. One coping mechanism that I used was to take ice and rub it all over my face and back of my nexk until the panic passed. It allowed me to focus on the cold sensations rather than the feelings of not being to breathe. Fast forward to the chemically induced panic attacks I coped with during the early months of my Xanax withdrawal and the same coping mechanism worked. Yes the chemically induced symptoms were more severe and the attacks were more intense and longer lasting as well as more frequent but the same coping strategies were effective. Also keep in mind that although your chemical anxiety may be worse than your own regular anxiety, there are people out there who experience anxiety levels equal to your withdrawal anxiety who have never taken a med in their life. So it is really subjective. I knew a woman once who would hyperventilate at the slightest life stresses. Nice woman and I would tease her about it. She carried a paper bag around with her and did not take meds. I would say her general level of anxiety appeared to be much worse than my anxiety even at the worst of my withdrawal.

Point is, chemical or not, anxiety is anxiety and it can either be treated with psychiatry, pshychology or not at all. That’s my opinion on that.

And there are self help books that can give you coping strategies. I have many of those as well.

I am also eagerly awaiting others responses on how they cope with their anxiety symptoms. When I am at my worst I remind myself that my mere existence brings joy to my son. He is 2 1/2 years old. He can not see my suffering. Sometimes when I can not take anymore and don’t even know why I bother to continue on I think of the fact that I don’t have to enjoy my existence in order for him to enjoy my existence. Then my parentsl instincts kick in and I move forward. That’s my rock bottom coping strategy when all else fails.

[[Po...]]

I have a question about tapering the last 2 mg of mirtazapine. I’ve calculated that if I cut the last 2mg of mirtazapine at 10% per cut it’s going to take forever and the amounts of each cut are getting so small I’d need laboratory grade micro pipettes to get an accurate amount at such low doses. How have some of you here handled the last couple milligrams and how’d it go for you. I’m contemplating dividing the last 2mg into about 4 cuts and being done with it. Not convinced I’d feel any worse than I do now taking it slow and easy at 10% each time

Pokey

[[dr...]]

I have a question about tapering the last 2 mg of mirtazapine. I’ve calculated that if I cut the last 2mg of mirtazapine at 10% per cut it’s going to take forever and the amounts of each cut are getting so small I’d need laboratory grade micro pipettes to get an accurate amount at such low doses. How have some of you here handled the last couple milligrams and how’d it go for you. I’m contemplating dividing the last 2mg into about 4 cuts and being done with it. Not convinced I’d feel any worse than I do now taking it slow and easy at 10% each time

Pokey

 

I am going to take on 3.75 soon. I want to compound pills at 3,2, and 1 for about a month each step, and then jump.

 

I agree that you can't reduce by fixed percentages at the end. it's recursive and, if you let it, will last forever, at least theoretically.

 

When I dropped the benzos it was with steps equal to 5% of my historic high dose, and it was very helpful for me to skip the higher math, and alchemy. I couldn't take that.

[[Pt...]]

On 0.5mg mirtazapine now. So far my insomnia is still the same, light sleep with frequent awakenings. But at least I'm slowly become med free despite ongoing symptoms. Do I feel better or worse on this dosage? Hard to say. Felt like crap since the beginning, so I might as well be poison free.

[[Po...]]

PTSD. What are your symptoms now? I’m at 2mg and wake up every morning feeling like warmed over dog poop. Stiff, ache, feel like I have the flu, groggy, lethargic. Improves after coffee but seems it’s become worse as I go lower in dose.

Pokey

[[Pt...]]

Pokey

I stillness have all the symptoms listed in my signature. Have no idea what's from the mirt taper. However, like you, I also have lethargy and insomnia, general malaise. Mines not worse at the lower dose, with the exception of more difficulty falling asleep. I lay there for hours. At higher dose of mirt I could feel the sleepiness kick in, but at this low of the dose I can't feel the kick. I still wake up feeling like death though. Like I got no sleep at all, or the same amount of tiredness from the real like dreams. It is indeed draining.

 

How long are you holding each dose? I decided to keep going down even if I didn't feel better.

[[Po...]]

PTSD. I’m staying at the same dose about 3weeks. I think some of my sxs now are benzo related that the mirt was masking although I’ve been off of benzos for some time now. In the end who knows. Once I drop to 1.875mg which is 1/4 of a 7.5mg tablet I’m going to hold there for a while and see if I can get some relief. Right now I’m making liquid mirt and I get tired of fussing with it. It’s odd you are having insomnia issues on low doses as mirt becomes more sedating in lower doses. I sleep but wake up feeling like as you say; death😩. It’s a horrible feeling. Thankfully it lifts, some days more than others, after I get up and try to get going. Other days I’m just a lump!!  I’ve been on a psychoactive drug of one sort or another that I don’t know if I will ever feel normal again. These drugs change brains and some I think permanently. Hope you find some relief soon and can sleep well.

Pokey

[[Pt...]]

Thanks Pokey. You too.

 

I don't want to believe these drugs permanently change the brain, some maybe longer time than others. Healing will happen even if it's slow. I think at such a low dose it definitely only has sedating properties and no activating properties, but because it's such a tiny dose, it's probably equivalent or less than taking an over the counter antistamine at this point, so I'm not surprised I'm having insomnia. I just hope as I go lower and eventually off, the other scary psych symptoms I had don't come rushing back.

[[ju...]]

Yesterday, i went to my ex psychologist to get some support during tapering, but he didnt know anything about tapering,withdrawal and any other thing that we lived. I was schocked. Upon talking BB, he said that you shouldnt believe you read on Internet:) Eventhough i had such an weird meeting with him, he said that he cant help me and directed me to pdoc. I will be seeing her by tomorrow but i am sure she doesnt know tapering and withdrawal. Possibly, she will want to set me on benzos and of course if she will i will reject and teach her the whole process and request some support during taper. You can say that, if she doesnt know wd you can try the other one but in my country, in Turkey, the pdocs are proned to the realize the wishes of drug companies so it is useless to seek other one.

 

By the way, i culdnt see a stable condition for me and i am still on 12 mg. Dave, how far should i cont. to this cond.? Should i think a cut in these days if i suffer like that steadily?

[[Po...]]

I want off. I want off. I want off!!!!! :tickedoff:  I’m at 2mg. I’ve been tapering forever.  Thinking of cutting to 1.5, 1.0 then .5 and OFF. I WILL NOT cut 10% at a time going forward. It will take another 3/4 of  a year and the dose gets so small I’d need lab grade micro-pipettes to make such small cuts and be accurate about it. Anyone done the last couple mg this way and how’d it go for you? I know we are all different. Just gathering info here.

Pokey

[[Ja...]]

June,

        Sorry the therapist thing din’t work out. Like I said I have had a much different ezperience with them but I forget sometimes that we are in different countries, different cultures and things may not be universal. Here in the US psychiatrists are mostly in the pocket of big pharma as you described. However my experience here in the States is that psychologists are the opposite. For legal reasons they would never come out and tell you to stop taking meds but they seem to generally be anti meds and like to focus on natural techniques. I think this comes from constantly be left to clean up the messes that the psychiatrists make of us through irresponsible prescription writing. I have seen and met many psychologist on this journey and while every single one questioned my desire to get off these meds all of them have given me nothing but support once I gave them my answer and assured them that it was not up for debate.

[[Ja...]]

Just an update on myself. I am at 12.6 mg currently and am dropping to 12.3 mg tonight and plan to drop to 12 mg on Wednesday night. I started sneaking towards the 12 mg cut as soon as I stabilized from the first cur because of all the overtime I need to work over the next few months and I knew I would not be able to do these kind of hours through another full 10 percent cut. I will continue this microtaper for a while cutting .3 mg every Wednesday and Sunday and just holding when I need to catch my breath. That seems to be working better for me but it is really too soon to tell.

[[Ja...]]

Chest pain?! Anyone else getting this. It is getting scary now. I just made an appointment for the cardiologist in 2 weeks and am going to see my PCP in a few hours. I keep getting these pains that are definietly heart pains. I just had a severe one. I felt it through all of my veins. It was scary. I thought I was going to have a heart attack. I don’t understand what is causing this. I can not express how much ill will I wish upon these evil drug manufacturers. I am so sick of this. My life was shitty enough before all of this.

[[ja...]]

Hi Jack, it never hurts to check and make sure it’s not something else. Did you cut to 12mg yet? Please let us know what you find out. I’m getting my butt kicked now. The last two months I’ve been getting hit hard towards the end of my cut. One never knows when or how hard it will be. Good luck at the doctors.

 

I am on day 24 of my cut and getting hit hard. The feeling of low sugar/ diabetes stuff. Shaky and anxious. I eat pretty darn healthy for the most part. No sugar, veggies and meat diet with low fruit. I never know what’s going to happen with this taper. Not as predictable as the Valium was.

 

June, Pokey, ptsd, drad, wishing you all a better day today.

 

Jackie

[[an...]]

My husband was prescribed remeron at the same time as he was put on the benzo. He's been off the benzo 27 months now, and we were originally told that staying on remeron wouldn't hinder his recovery, and many people on these boards credit remeron with saving their life while going through benzo withdrawal.But, with him still this bad at 27 months off, people are hinting that the remeron could be the problem. They're saying he can't recover until he's off everything. This is beyond frustrating as he would have endured the added suffering long ago if he'd been counseled that way.He's been on remeron a total of 5 years, though it's been a very low dose for quite some time. He's currently on 2.95 MG. Our question to all of you is: at what dose did you jump off remeron and how did that go?Thanks

[[Ja...]]

Hi Jackie,

              I just got back from my PCP and the ekg was negative. However, I wasn’t having the pain or the palps at the time. The doc says it can’t be withdrawal because I am tapering so slowly. I hope the Remeron rep at least bought him a nice dinner before he convinced him of that line of crap. It would be funny if it wasn’t so scary how many lives are being ruined. Anyway, I have a cardiologist appt two weeks from today. It is likely I’ll have to wear a monitor. I guess we will see. I totally get the diabetic type symptoms. I got hit hard wiith that a couple of weeks ago at work and it was very scary. I am down to 12.3 mg and will be dropping to 12 mg tomorrow night. I am finding that microtapering closer together is minimizing my symptoms a lot. I may even try dropping by .1 ml every other day at some point.

 

Anxioususer,

                  Unfortunately a lot of the people who jumped have moved on with life it seems. But from reading here I think around .2 mg is the number. Maybe someone else will jump in on that. I peronsally plan to jump from .1 mg.