How much is the chicken v. the egg

[[Po...]]

IN the rpocess of getting off benzos and dealing the myriad of symptoms that many of us deal with I ask myself how much is drug related and how much is my personality. I got on benzos in the first place because I have an anxious personality and a very senstive nervous system to stress. Over the years I have learned to cope with a lot, but I dont think this sow's ear will ever be a silk purse. I am dealing with some personal issues right now that are really stressing me out that perhaps another person who is less labile might brush off. My psych doc says he thinks my curretn symptoms that I come here, and to him, to complain about are likelya combo of benzo WD, but underlying it all is an anxious personality with a midl form of dysthymia. I guess what I am saying some of my sxs are constitutional that I will likely have to deal with all my life after the possibility of WD sxs has likely expired. I dont think I can hold on to it being benzo WD forever. I am just wondering what the rest of you think about this?

 

Pokey

[[Ca...]]

I think I can relate to what you are saying.  I feel like my withdrawal has been compounded by other "sub-clinical" health issues that I have been dealing with for many years prior to benzos.  I now know that I am gluten and casein intolerant, and that those things were causing a lot of health problems I was experiencing, but I also think that the stress I have endured for all these years is a big part of it as well.  I think the best thing we can do is to practice relaxation techniques, such as meditation or deep breathing.  This is actually something I preach more often than I practice, but I do realize the importance of implementing these practices.  Everyone can benefit from this, especially in the world we live in now.  One thing I have noticed about doing these techniques is that it is much easier to get into a relaxed state when I am gluten and casein free.  My biggest challenge, currently, is that b/w has left me with so many food intolerances, and that bread is one of the few things I can eat that doesn't cause a b/w type of reaction.  It just causes problems in other ways. 

[[Po...]]

I have a hyper-sensitive system, always have. I can remember as a little boy my folks taking me to my brothers high school basketball games and they not being able watch the game because they had to take me out of the gym becuase I could not tolerate the crowd noise. The same thing applies to this date. I dont travel well either, the hub bub, the rush and crush, noise  of yappy people, screaming kids wires me up awful. By the time I am getting where I am going I am so wired that the one thing that would work to calm me down so I could sleep was benzos. Then on top of that I am a fretter and worrier as was my mother who had an anxiety disorder. Thankfully I have learned to cope with more than I use to be able to, but there are parts of me that I think will never get remedied by CBT, meditation, etc., but hopefully weel enough now that I wont need to use benzos again.

[[On...]]

Pokey,

 

I am a similar, in that my life has always been full of anxiousness a bit wired on the inside, even while appearing mellow to others on the outside. I was termed or called a "sensitive boy" when I was a child, and they were right. I have wondered the say dilemma myself, as to what point does one say that they have merely their "old self" that we were born with symptoms back again, verses claiming them to be withdrawals from benzo's? Of course we will be the only ones to know this.

 

My biggest question is that it is said "everyone will recover eventually", yet like all OTC, prescription and recreational drugs(marijuana) I have taken over my lifetime including some moderate alcohol use, they seem to leave a "signature" or "marker" behind. An almost undetectable amount influence left behind that seems to permanently bind to the brain or body. I say this because anything that I have gotten away from for years, the body seems to recognize it by being familiar with it even after being away from the particular substance for 10 years. Does that mean that all substances create some sort of permanent habituation(tolerance)?

[[pa...]]

Pokey,

 

I guess it's different for each person.  I will say I am VERY sensitive - to meds, hormones, lots of thigns. I am also a highly sensitive emotional person- very intuitively connected to others' feelings.  This is definitely the reason I became a teacher/therapist.  I tend towards being very conscientious, and along with that, anxious in a way.  More than the average person, I likely have mild/mod GAD.  But then again, I was a gifted kid.  I think a lot of my "anxiety" just comes along with being highly perceptive and able to take in the big picture. I often carry the weight of the world on my shoulders and cannot shrug off the plight of the underdog. I feel I must make a difference in things - and have usually been excellent at that.  But along with all of that conscientious nature comes a natural feeling of "anxiety".  Stll -it is what makes me me.  THIS HOWEVER IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE ANXIETY I EXPERIENCED IN TOLERANCE W/D AND IN THE PAST 6 MONTHS!

 

I am finally feeling like I am starting to come out of w/d - and the more I come out of it, the more I feel my old self return.  My thoughts, emotions, and reactions are NOTHING like that I experienced in withdrawal.  My best day in withdrawal is still worse than my worst day without it.  I think that as you really progress through this and come out the other side, you'll agree.  In some ways, this last 6 months is like a reawakening of my OLD self - a person I almost forgot. You will have to experience it for yourself to see if you agree  but I think you will be pleasantly surprised. 

 

Withdrawal leaves us in a physiological state of withdrawal that no "normal" state of anxiety could ever duplicate. Even on your most anxious of days, you could not physiologically displace your own GABA receptors the way this chemical withdrawal does. 

 

It's a great question, and one many of us have probably wondered about or worried about.  But as you heal, I feel you will be nicely relaxed about "old worries" in life. 

 

I know that for me, this withdrawal experience has REALLY taught me about what is truly "a problem" in life and what is "just life and I shouldn't worry about it." I dont' know HOW many times in this experience I have said "If i can JUST heal from this, I will never worry about ANYTHING again." I almost mean that. It's probably not entirely true. But I was a type A person. And while this experience won't make me into a type B, I am definitely more an A-minus now.   I will NEVER get my panties in a bunch again over something ridiculous. Now I truly know the difference.  I actually lived through this. Everythign else in life seems like icing on the cake!

 

Hope this helps.

:)Parker

[[On...]]

Thanks Parker,

 

That is some really good and insightful advice on the proper perspective on how this relates to regular everyday anxieties!

 

I saw this written somewhere on-line; <b>"...And you thought you had anxiety before benzodiazepine use?!!!"</b>

[[Po...]]

Parker and On The Mend-

 

Thanks much for your insight. I suspect many of us here are what is coined as a Highly Sensitive Person (HSP) by Elaine Aaron if I have her name right. She wrote a couple books on the topic. I know I fit the mold well. Part or maybe a big part of my issue is an underlying anxiety disorder that I inherited from my mom. She was a fretter, but she lived a fairly isolated, sheltered life as a farm wife in rural NW Missouri, so her nerves were not taxed  like many of ours are in this crazy day and age. BUt if I understand what you are saying Parker, I dont really remember anxiety of any significant amount before ager 28. I was in training to be a conservation officer, better know and as a game warden. It was a military style training for 6 months living in a barracks with 20 other guys night and day. NO place to go hide and have down time and peace and quiet. I fell to pieces and dropped out. Thats when major episodes of anxeity hit me then my father died and there was lots of baggage there for me and lots of other stuff that would take to long to describe here, plus nobody would want to hear it all anyway. This all led to a major bout of depression and 25 years of benzo use. It was only 2007 I decided I did not need to take benzos the rest of my life. I got off in September 2008, but then starting in 2009 with a trip to Costa Rica I started taking valium when I traveled so I could sleep. I got by with it the first 2-3 times, but then it started getting more dicey. To make a long story short here I am dealing with extended WD because of playing with fire. This anxiety and misery from WD is nothing like anxiety of the earlier days as I understood Parker to say. It is diffferent. This anxiety is fearsome, it invades your whole body, it can eat you alive at times if it gets bad enough. To me its more debilitating. WD sxs are absolute misery and I think I get off easier than others becuase I am still on an AD that has anti-anxiety properties.

 

This all said I think I will finally get to a point where I can't claim WD sxs any more. Not sure when that will be and I hope I know when it is. There is an innate part of me that can't totally relax given the right circumstances and there is certainly a part of me that will never tolerate loud noise, bright lights, hordes of people, the rush and crush of travel, and certain things are just going to worry me, but hopefully I have learned some techniques that once the WD is gone as much as its going to be an old self or a new self will appear that I can at last get the peace and rest I so desperately seek.

 

Pokey

[[pa...]]

Pokey - I know how you feel - and this may sound stupid, but what has always helped me make it through the day prior to benzos was starting the day with exercise- and in particular, something short, but intense and strenuous.Either weightlifting, some interval training with intense periods for about 20 -30 minutes, etc.  I was an athlete most of my adult life (not right now) but I think that saved me from nervous system overtax. If I started my day like this, I was golden.  I did it most days of the week. In the "old days" before modern times, we'd have been working the fields, using our bodies in a way that this happened naturally - and out in the sunlight to boot - all of which is a great way to combat natural anxiety.  I don't think I'd have anxiety if we weren't in a modern world with indoor life and light to sedentary living. I have to SEEK OUT exercise for lack of any real taxing physical stuff. But it works. It's cheap and easy, but you have to want to do it.  I learned the value in it for me a long time ago and just stuck with it. Unfortunately, I had a severe case of postpartum anxiety that I could not overcome. Now with my research,I realize it was hormonal. It is when I started benzos. But as I recover, I'm turnign to exercise again when I can. I have JUST started to be able to do it again in the past month. It does so much for sleep, etc.  For me, I bought a $1000 tread mill and a weight set - it's a lifestyle that I always want to have convenient if I need it. Just food for thought.

 

:)Parker

[[Po...]]

Parker- Oh, I am in 100% agreement. Exercise makes huge difference and I try and get an hour of aerobic exercise  as much as I can. I go to the health club, or cross country ski in winter or bike in summer. Trouble is I can't seem to work it in every day with everything thats going on in my life. MY job is basically sitting on my dead ass all day long in front of a frigging computer. Its unnatural and unhealthy and I have grown to hate it. I was raised on a farm where you got up and went and did chores before breakfast and then worked, as you say, outdoors in the sunlight all day. I live in Alaska and the low light of winter and the cold really works on a person. That said, YES, exercise makes a big difference, just wish I could work it in every day or 5-6x per week anyway. I have tried moring exercise, but to no avail as I am not a morning person, you jsut want to leave me along in the a.m. I have to ease into my day  so I can wake up

 

Pokey

[[On...]]

Pokey wrote in part;  "I know I fit the mold well. Part or maybe a big part of my issue is an underlying anxiety disorder that I inherited from my mom."

 

That's interesting Pokey, I also inherited that nervous anxiety from my mom also, she was always a "worry wort" and drove my sister, brother and Dad crazy! ... I don't have it quite as bad as she did, but I think my daughter  inherited this lovely genetic trait!

 

 

[Guest [...]]

An interesting read from everybody thanks for sharing.  I know that i always had a very bad anxiety disorder but i could tolerate that.  its the intense fear of the symptoms of withdrawal that are terrifying.  I also loved the outdoors as a child but as we get older and stay in and have all this pent up energy i believe we become unstuck to much time on our hands to ponder where back in the day it was more about hunting and gathering keeping warm etc.  now everything is at our fingertips and as much as the net is a wonderful thing (ie benzo buddies) i think it has made us so lazy as in facebook for socialising instead of getting out with real people etc.  Cant wait till this is over and we can get on with our lives.  Hard trying to explain to someone why you just cant stop taking these meds it just doesnt work like that for some of us.

 

Lizzy

[[Po...]]

Yes, I think much of life in America today is unnatural and stressful. Human beings are designed to move through space and use their bodies to survive each day, instead we use our minds to survive, thats what drives us nuts I think, does me. I have to deal with all kinds of stuff on a daily basis in my head and it wears me out. I live in Alaska and an avid hunter. I especially enjoy dall sheep hunting whic occur out in the very remote, wild and rugged areas of Alaska. It requires lots of walking, mostly uphill and one can easily burn 10,000 calories a day. When I go ona sheep hunt the first couple days are hell as I am coming from my sedentary life of sitting behind a stinking computer all day to one of strenuous exercise out in the sun, wind, rain and some times snow. But after a few days you begin to feel like a new person..your mind calms down, going to sleep is easy, you dream deeply and your appetite is ravenous and everything thing tastes wonderful, even if it is freeze dried. By the time I get back home I feel like anew human being...and you realize you dont need a lot of stuff to live well becuase out there all you can carry on your back is the bare essentials...not that I want to survive on the bare essentails all the time, but the whole experience tells me that there is a better way to live than whats commonly my daily life........

 

Pokey

[Guest [...]]

I totally agree

 

I live in australia and although different we have a lot of bush nothing calms me more than the nature the beach or the bush.  I could permanently move away from civilisation if I had half the chance.  Sounds amazing what you do and i can imagine how awesome you would feel doing it.  Just got to get away from these benzos and i will reevaluate my life.

 

good luck

 

Lizzy

[[re...]]

Well, nearly everyone who takes benzos was put on them for some reason. And yet, some people come off them with no problems, while others have a terrible time. I wonder about the effect on benzo withdrawal of other drugs people have taken or are taking. A very common combination is antidepressants and benzos. I wonder if people who just took benzos, and nothing else, have an easier time during withdrawal.

[Guest [...]]

Red I was only on antidepressants for a few weeks in combination with xanax it al made me feel dreadful then they tapered my antidepressant and c/t the benzo even though i reinstated on the benzo i never stablised on it just made me have the worse grief tears ever.  so i dont know if that would be true or not.  will be interesting to find out.  however i predict that its all the same.

 

 

Lizzy