QUESTION.... IMPORTANT~!!!

[[Sa...]]

I know of a woman from the city I live in that is struggling getting over Ativan - she has been on it for a total of 4 years now... She is on 1.75 mg and not sure what to do. Every time she tries to cut her dose, she gets even worse. Her symptoms are pacing, anxiety, blurred vision (assuming DR) and outer body feeling... she is barley eating anything and in really bad shape. Please suggest something to me that I can help her to get these horrible things.... maybe switch over to valium? And how long should the taper be etc? I ask this because I CT myself and do not know anything about a taper and I am 27 months out....

 

Thank you, SamElliot

[[sm...]]

Sam-All I would suggest is to add in valium, and possible water titration, that way she can cut more gradually.  She just has to know that the process is painful, and will not be easy either way.  It depends on how long it will take to taper, depends on how much of the craziness she can handle.  It is not easy no matter what:(

[[re...]]

Sounds like your friend is a good candidate for a valium cross-over. This involves gradually replacing the ativan with valium, then tapering slowly off the valium. This is the method used by Prof. Heather Ashton, and it's often called the Ashton Method. I have a link to the Ashton Manual in my signature. Your friend should take a look at it. It will help her understand her situation and make a choice on how to proceed. Good luck.

Evan

[[Sa...]]

Should I suggest she goes over to the eqivilant amount of Valium? And then how often should she taper or try to? Like every few weeks? And just taper the Ativan then .... and then eventually taper the Valium?

[[Sa...]]

Could u copy/paste the Ashton Method in the post? This way I can print it off my computer or copy/paste the link? Thanks!!!

 

Should she totally stop the valium and replace ALL with just valium or take valium while trying to get off the Ativan?

[[sm...]]

I actually don't have that link??I know someone on here does, I can try to look it up for you though.  No she needs to keep taking the ativan, but in between take valium to help ease some of the symptoms. I will look it up for you though:)

[[St...]]

It's important that she has her doctor on board while tapering but it's generally recommended to taper by 5 to 10 % every week or two, but to also listen to her body.

 

You can get a general idea of how the crossover works if it's something she might do. Here's a link for an idea on crossover schedules, you can copy this or consult a pharmacist too.

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzsched.htm#s8

[[sm...]]

http://www.benzobuddies.org/benzodiazepine-withdrawal-methods/substitution

here it is

[[Sa...]]

Can someone copy/paste the link to the Ashton Method? I would really like to help this woman who is suffering greatly. I can get it myself, but I would like to take a look at the Valium taper method.... and I am trying to figure out how slow/fast she should try to come off of the Ativan... how quick she should cut etc.... She does not know anything about benzo withdrawal yet and I cold turkeyed myself so I am not so much educated on how she should taper etc... Her doctor had her do a huge drop last month from 2.25 mg of Ativan or so and now she is down to 1.75 mg... either way it would a huge drop...

 

ANY SUGGESTIONS would be greatlt appreciated

 

I would really like to help this woman.... thank you!

[[re...]]

Yes, she would gradually cross over to an equivalent dose of Valium.

 

According to the table found here, 1 mg of Ativan is equivalent to 10 mg of Valium. So your friend would be taking 17.5 mg of Valium when the cross-over was finished. Then she would begin cutting that dose by 0.5 to 0.25 mg every couple weeks, until she was off. I calculate that would take 35 weeks, at least, and probably longer, since toward the end of the taper, the cuts will be smaller. So we're looking at a taper that will probably take something like an entire year. That seems like a long time, but coming off these drugs too quickly can lead to symptoms that last even longer.

 

I can't copy and paste the Ashton Manual here. It's much too long. Click on the link in my signature and take a look at it. You could print it out for your friend, or if she has internet access, you could simply send her the link.

 

You could even send her a link to BenzoBuddies.

[[Sa...]]

Thanks guys. What do you mean by 5-10% How would that be in mg... like if she is on 1.75mg now what is 5-10% drop from that every week or two? I know Baylissa from the Benzo Wise book did a 18 month taper and she did it very gradually, but it did take her 2 1/2 years to heal fully. Of course she got better along the way as we all do and get the windows and the waves, but it's still crazy how one can taper and still get severe symptoms. I know I CT and man my withdrawal has a been a ride!!! I figured it was probably because I cold turkeyed all 3 benzos.... Xanax, Ativan, and Valium... but back then in 2009 I had no idea about benzo withdrawal or what I was getting myself into... I never knew a drug could anything like this - thank god time heals though.... RIGHT?!!!!! THANK GOD!!!!!!!

 

Sam

[[Sa...]]

Ok thank you so much. So you are saying she should take 17.5 mg while on the Ativan and start cutting her doses from 1.75 mg down to what??? Every 1-2 weeks.... I would like to know exactly how we should try to start tapering her....

[[Sa...]]

Also you are saying the cuts would be smaller .... so how much smaller towards the end and how and why would we be able to figure that out? Should she just follow her body and how much she should allow to taper around that time or what?

 

I would think you would want to stay on a steady taper and then go from there.... and keep sticking to it so that way you can come off the medications and keep on healing Thanks. Sam

[[Sa...]]

This is what I found on the Ashton Method.... Ok so this woman IS ON 1.75 mg and here is the method or part of it and this is how it starts :

 

Stage 1

(1 week) lorazepam 1 mg lorazepam 1 mg lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg 30mg

Stage 2

(1 week) lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg lorazepam 1 mg lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg 30mg

Stage 3

(1 week) lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg 30mg

Stage 4

(1 week) lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg Stop lorazepam

diazepam 10mg 30mg

Stage 5

(1 week) Stop lorazepam

diazepam 10mg lorazepam 0.5mg

diazepam 5mg diazepam 10mg 30mg

Stage 6

(1 week) diazepam 10mg Stop lorazepam

diazepam 10mg diazepam 10mg 30mg

 

 

How  can we find a method that starts from 1.75 mg and then has the EQUIVILANT amount of Valium which would be 17.5 ... I mean this chart is off because she is not taking 3mg of ativan daily and the other method was about taking 6mg daily???

 

Confusing...................

[[re...]]

The cross-over works something like this.

 

If she now takes 1.75 mg of Ativan every day, she would first cut that to 1.5 mg of Ativan, and add 2.5 mg of Valium to her daily dosage. Not necessarily at the same time of day. She could take the Ativan in the morning and the Valium at night.

 

After a week or so, she would cut the Ativan dosage to 1.25 mg a day, and increase the Valium to 5 mg.

 

A week or so later, she would cut the Ativan to 1 mg a day, and increase the Valium to 7.5 mg.

 

And so forth. For every 0.25 mg of Ativan she cuts, she substitutes 2.5 mg of Valium.

 

Eventually, she'll be taking no Ativan, and only Valium.

 

 

I think it might help if you read the Ashton Manual before trying to advise your friend.

Or as I suggested, maybe she could visit BenzoBuddies herself.

I'm afraid a lot of this advice may get lost in translation.

 

I also should stress that your friend should do all this in consultation with her doctor.

She should not try to do this behind her doctor's back.

I'm not a doctor. I'm just summarizing what Prof. Ashton has written about, and what others have done.

 

 

[[Sa...]]

And you are saying if she cannot tolerate the symptoms when cutting she should stay for awhile or just go through it? That is exactly what I did - I CT and did it.... with no other medications, I just wanted off the drug no matter what I went through! I guess it wasn't the best thing to do, because I have protracted symptoms now... but I am so much better at 27 months out!!!!

[[Sa...]]

Thank you so much for the reply by the way!!!! This is very nice of you....

[[re...]]

Well, Prof. Ashton says it's ok to hold at a dosage for a while longer, if your symptoms are really bad. But of course, the process will never be completely comfortable.

 

Understand, there are two stages to this process.

First, the gradual cross-over from Ativan to Valium.

After that, the gradual cutting down of the Valium dose, until she's off benzos completely.

 

Do you see the link to the Ashton Manual in my signature? I think you should click on that and read the manual. Then you'll be able to discuss it with your friend when she reads it. She should read it, so she can discuss this plan with her doctor. In fact, she may want to show the Ashton Manual to her doctor. Everything we're talking about here is discussed in that manual.

 

 

[[Sa...]]

Thank you for the reply! Your support is really appreciated. I will print off the Ashton Manual - even though it's not going to be exactly how she should taper will HER OWN personal mg's that she is on, but we can get a pretty good idea of what she should do

 

If you can think of anything else, please let me know. Thanks, Sam

[[Br...]]

What symptoms do you still have?

[[Cr...]]

Please be aware that while Valium is one of the most ideal benzos for tapering, some people do not have an easy time crossing over to it and many find they cannot tolerate the side effects.  Quite a few people have reported increased sedation and depression when switching to Valium.

 

Anyone that is planning on changing their medications should consult with their doctor.  The Ashton Manual is a great starting reference for getting off of benzos, but many people find they have to make adjustments (not use Valium, make less than or more than 10% cuts, etc) to fit their individual needs.  When it comes to getting off benzos, there is definitely no 'one size fits all'.

[[Sa...]]

Thank you so much for the reply - This means so much and I sure hope we can get this woman off the benzo!!!!

[[Sa...]]

I know of many people who have tapered from Valium and felt much better and also came off successfully. I know that either way it is not easy, but a longer acting benzodiazepine is known to help some instead of coming off just Ativan or in other words a short acting Benzodiazepine.

 

Does anyone know how much she would start cutting once she is totally off the Ativan and starting to taper the 17.5mg? Would you also still do the same thing and cut 5-10% each week or two?

 

Thanks, Sam

[[of...]]

Hi Sam,  she should probably come to the forum and give it a good read and get educated.

 

She has a lot of options,  she needs to know them all.

[[Sa...]]

Thanks, she has her doctor appt coming up on the 27th....so I got a lot of good advice and thinking Valium would be the best option for her. Many have told me this who have also done the same thing and had an easier withdrawal.

 

My question was what she does when she tapers the Valium of if she should cut 5-10% every 1-2 weeks just like she would be doing with the Ativan - following how her body responds to the taper plan!

 

If anyone out here knows what steps to take when she finally reaches 17.5mg of Valium once she is off the Ativan, please let me know. I know it will take her some time to finally get off the Ativan, but once that is finally finished I would like to know where to go from there.

 

Thanks, SamElliot