Followed 2 week Ashton to a T, are the last few mgs of V commonly worse?

[[kl...]]

I feel so close and yet further than ever based on feeling MUCH worse lately, but then again it's all relative- it's not like I was working and having fun and then BAM- it's been hard since I started last July, when i had to quit working due to insomnia and bad anxiety.  I just feel lost right now...like things have gotten MUCH worse but it's too late to stabilize as I don't even really know what my last stable dose was.  If I stick to it, I'm set to be off benzos in 6 weeks...if I can survive, literally.  I know these last few mgs are a much higher %, is that all that's going on?  What's the sense of slowing down to less than 1mg every 2 weeks when I'm already battling for my life?

 

Edit: title is a little misleading, I was cruising along relatively well the first couple months at 1 week intervals.

[[ti...]]

Hi Julian, so sorry you are suffering...I did well at 5 but when I went down to 2.5 V I was truly in hell.  My body went nuts...it was like it knew what was coming and tried like crazy to make me reinstate.  At that point I decided to jump because I felt so dreadful.  So yea, the last few mg of V were pretty awful and felt better after I jumped.  Good luck, K.

[[Fl...]]

Oh my gosh, Julian, you're going way too fast for comfort. No wonder you feel terrible! 

 

IMO you should hold this dose you're  at now and see if you can stabilize a bit.  This will give you time to explore and decide what method you'd like to use for the last few mgs.

 

Personally, I dropped to .25 cuts after 4.5. And now, at 2 mg, I'm doing a daily micro taper. There are many people who are tapering quite well.  This does not have to be so brutal.

 

So please stabilize, okay? Then we will all help you and give you enough information to make the right decision for yourself.

 

Hang in there,

Flip

[Guest [de...]]

In never ceases to amaze me why people keep on their taper sdcheule whicle they are experience horrid w/d. The solution is simple ....Slow down.

 

 

Edit profanity

[Guest [de...]]

One more thing...You didn't follow Ashton to a T. She stated quite clearly that although forward progress is important, a person should personalize their rate of discontinuation to minimize symptoms.

[[la...]]

Hey Julian,

 

I too agree that you are tapering VERY fast. This is what Asthon says in the manual:

 

Professor Ashton would like to draw attention to the following points which are mentioned in the manual but not always heeded by doctors or patients:

 

    It is worth pointing out to your prescriber that the withdrawal schedules provided in the manual are only intended as general guides. The rate of tapering should never be rigid but should be flexible and controlled by the patient, not the doctor, according to the patient's individual needs which are different in every case.

 

 

I finished my taper 3 weeks ago and I can only say that the I felt much better at a lower dose. I listened to my body and did a slow taper 0.25mg cuts after 4.5mg and 0.125 - 0.10 after 2mg. There are people that go even slower because the key is listening to your body and see what suits better for you.

 

I won't recommend you to keep tapering at this point. If you are already feeling so bad then you'll set yourself for a long, painful recovery. I know people that went down too fast and regret it to this day. Finishing the taper sooner doesn't mean that you'll heal faster.

 

IMHO if you feel so bad, you can try to updose  and see how you feel. Hold the updose a few weeks until you feel more stable and then make 5% cuts every 2-3 weeks. You can also try the micro taper method that works very good for many people.

 

Finishing in 6 weeks as you say is way too fast. You have to think in more like months than weeks to get ride of the last mg.

 

Keep us posted Julian. We can help you to draw a better plan for you. As Other people have said, this hasn't to be so brutal. The objective of a slow taper is to keep yourself functional and with your life in the meantime. Many, many people are working and living a more of less regular life during the taper, you can do the same. Please slow down.

 

Hugs

Laura

[Guest [de...]]

Laura

 

Your response was great. It is nice to finally hear someone attest to feeling BETTER at a lower dose. I just finished my K to V transfer, and hearing the low single digit horror stories can be a bit tough.

 

DS

[[gi...]]

Hi Julian,

I too tapered off of valium.  The end is typically much more difficult and many do not stabillize at all because of tolerance.  I don't believe that holding or taking miniscule dosages and prolonging the taper for months will do you much good.  It does not seem to aid in the healing time.  The fact is that healing truly begins after you are off the drug.  The end was difficult for me and instead of taking 1 mg. cuts every two weeks, I began to take .5 mg. cuts every week.  It seemed to help a bit.  When I was at the end it did not get worse .  I know what you are going thru is really hard, but you are almost there.  Hang in there.  Ginia

[[la...]]

Laura

 

Your response was great. It is nice to finally hear someone attest to feeling BETTER at a lower dose. I just finished my K to V transfer, and hearing the low single digit horror stories can be a bit tough.

 

DS

 

Hi DS,

I know how those horror stories make us think that will suffer the same. It happened to me too. When I started my taper I was in terrible shape and I really believed that the lower the dose the worse I'd feel. My addictionist told me that maybe I'd need extra meds to help me with w/d. I even prepared myself to quit my work once I reach a lower dose. For my surprise the lower I got the better I felt but I had to go down slowly. After a big cut I'd feel terrible bad.

 

When I reached the 3mg I started feeling sooooo much better and after that with each cut I felt more in control. Maybe the side effects and paradoxical effects from valium were just too hard for me and that is why I felt better at a lower dose.

 

I don't know if you have read Georgie's blog, she explains very well why is very important to taper slowly so the receptors can reset themselves and heal. Here is the link to her blog. I find this very interesting and it makes a lot of sense to me.

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=48375.10

 

Have a nice day

Laura

[[os...]]

I´d go with Laura and deerslayer... i am at 3.8mg V (equivalent), there is no way i would rush this, i am micro tapering and so far i am sleeping like a baby... eating, feeling pretty good and that is the way i am going to try and keep it... if you are hurting and you push harder, that will just mean needless suffering IMO.

 

Oscar

[[Kl...]]

Julian, you are tapering very fast........but for me, the last 2mgs for my valium taper were more mild .... it got better towards the end. God bless.

[[kl...]]

Well, I may very well slow down but am not updosing.  My worst symptoms are really an exaggeration of my underlying issues, so I don't think in some ways it really matters how slow I go- I don't want to be reckless but I don't believe I can fully address my underlying insomnia until I'm done.  To reiterate, I had to give up on a normal life about the same time I started my taper (work, most relationships, socializing)- but that's the way things were headed even if I stayed on clonazepam and why I wanted to quit in the first place.  I appreciate everyones responses.

[[Ms...]]

I started taking 5mg valium for daily non-migraine headaches, insomnia (from fibromyalgia?) and I have never been able to go below 2.5mg.  Severe sleep issues and increased headaches have made it impossible to taper off.  I'm also dealing with severe fatigue at this low dose.

 

Many meds and supps increase my headaches so what can I do for sleep? (and headaches?)

 

SOME THINGS TRIED:

amitrip, noritrip, cymbalta, migraine meds, anti-inflamm all increased headaches/caused insomnia

amino acids like 5-HTP, tryptophan, inositol, tyrosine

I couldn't fall asleep with  2.5-5mg ambien

sleep teas, melatonin, relaxation techniques

[[la...]]

I started taking 5mg valium for daily non-migraine headaches, insomnia (from fibromyalgia?) and I have never been able to go below 2.5mg.  Severe sleep issues and increased headaches have made it impossible to taper off.  I'm also dealing with severe fatigue at this low dose.

 

Many meds and supps increase my headaches so what can I do for sleep? (and headaches?)

 

SOME THINGS TRIED:

amitrip, noritrip, cymbalta, migraine meds, anti-inflamm all increased headaches/caused insomnia

amino acids like 5-HTP, tryptophan, inositol, tyrosine

I couldn't fall asleep with  2.5-5mg ambien

sleep teas, melatonin, relaxation techniques

 

Hi Susan,

 

Have you tried homeopathic remedies? I can't take any medications because I'm over sensitive to then but I find great relief with homeopathic remedies. I use a few of them for: migraines, RLS, motion sickness, allergies, pain. They work very good for me and I don't have any nasty side effect from them.  One of the brands I use is "hyland's".

 

I hope you feel better soon.

Laura

 

 

[[pr...]]

As you can see there is some disagreement...some people say to just slam on down and get off the drug, going slow just prolongs the agony.  I have seen this said so many times that I have to believe it's true for some people.

 

However, MORE people say that going slow seems to minimize agony altogether and make tapering tolerable and makes it possible to function and have a life while tapering.

 

When I first started to taper I read all this and decided to go the slow route.  I have never regretted it.  So that's my own personal experience.

 

I would add a couple of things:  The only people I've met who have come off at the end and had a smooth recovery have been people who tapered slowly, almost always much more slowly than they had ever planned or hoped to.

 

All of the people I've met who've had rough prolonged recovery periods after getting off the meds did CTS or fairly fast tapers or were quitting other meds at the same time.

 

Generally people who taper as fast as you have been tapering do experience some pretty rough withdrawal symptoms.  Generally it's not due to their most recent cuts, it's a cumulative effect  of all of the cuts they've done in a short time.  Valium cuts take a while to be felt, and if you cut again during that time because you're feeling okay, it adds up and all the cuts can slam you.  This is the trickiest thing about tapering Valium.

 

Really, at this point it's up to you. Reinstating to a higher dose may or may not help you now.  It's not always straightforward after a rapid taper; sometimes reinstatement doesn't work.  Sometimes it does.  If you do try it, I would recommend going up by just one or two mg and then holding at that dose for at least a month before  beginning a slower taper.

 

Whatever you do, I wish you good luck and good healing and minimal suffering.

[[sp...]]

Aside from Julian's initial cut of 2.5 mg, how is he going fast?  He's tapering 1 mg every 2 weeks. 

[[kl...]]

Aside from Julian's initial cut of 2.5 mg, how is he going fast?  He's tapering 1 mg every 2 weeks.

 

 

That's what I feel.  Now that I'm this low I'm highly skeptical of feeling any better by going back up even a few mgs anyways.  My title was a little misleading because I was initially cutting weekly, but never faster than Ashton.  Are you referring to the slipup I made going from 10 to 7.5?  Yeah...dr was on autopilot I think and I was not paying close enough attention.  By the time I was he was out of town and his fill in just had me hold and then make a much smaller .5 cut.

[[sp...]]

I didn't read your initial post TOO closely so i might be missing something.  But your initial taper of 2.5 mg was high as per Ashton.  She suggests 1 mg every 1-2 weeks....so *I* don't think you're going too fast.  I'm tapering 1.25  valium every week, a few days here and there and am doing ok.  I don't know why they thought you were going too fast! 

 

good luck

[[pr...]]

Aside from Julian's initial cut of 2.5 mg, how is he going fast?  He's tapering 1 mg every 2 weeks.

 

I'm not great with the calendar type tapers, I just know from experience how fast seems to work for people, and under about 10 mg most people run into trouble trying to cut 1 mg at a time.  Under 5 mg almost nobody can do it.  And holds of two weeks are often not long enough.  I don't know Ashton, I just know what I've seen working and not working for people.

[[sp...]]

Ashton is a ph.d. I think who ran her own benzo withdrawal clinic for several years.  Her "slow taper schedule" of 1 mg every 1-2 weeks of valium was found to have worked.  Don't know who you've seen that it's not worked for.  Dunno.