Ashton Taper

[[an...]]

I have been at the BB site now two weeks or so.  I am almost finished with a c/o from cl to v. Then I will hold for 3 or 4 weeks, with my psych ok.  She follows the Ashton Method and I am hearing so much on this forum about "micro" tapering- can it be done with pill cuts as my psych won't let me use liquid valium for reasons that I am still unclear about.  I don't understand titration either!  I have watched the videos but I SUCK at math.  Has anyone followed Ashton and found it to be ok?  I plan on making smaller cuts than she advises at least after the first few initial 2 mg cuts and hold for 2 weeks in between.  I will be starting at 25 g of valium.  Does anyone know if a 2 mg pill can be cut dowm more that into 4th (.5)??  I am scared and wish that my psych would allow me the liquid. Would love to hear from others that followed Ashton to some degree.  Thanks, Angelluv

[[...]]

Maybe you could explain the reasoning why you wish to switch to liquid once you get to the lower doses to your psychiatrist.

 

If you wish to do titration once pill splitting is no longer comfortable you'll be able to get lots of help her with the math and any other questions you may have.

 

I think it's smart of you to take it a bit slower than Ashton recommends.  Listen to your body and allow time to stabilize between cuts.

 

Take care.

[[Bi...]]

Angelluv,

 

It's okay that you suck at Math 'cause I love Math.

 

I seen where you posted on my blog about the Valium Taper.

 

Yes, if you split a 2mg Valium into four pieces, you get four .5 milligrams.

You put g, I certainly hope not grams lol. It's okay. 

 

You don't necessarily have to follow Ashton, just take it at your own pace.

 

Billy.

 

[[an...]]

I did explain to my psych why I wanted to do the liquid v, and she said that I could find someone else to help me if I wished but that she will not change her mind.  There are VERY few benzo wize psych here that take my insurance (the other two are far away!) My therapist thinks I am fortunate to have found her. I am sure I will take it slower than Ashton , just worry about not being able to go down in pill size to less that .5 mg. (a 2 mg v cut into 4ths.)  That seems to be my only option when I get down far enough as I just don't understand titration!

[[Bi...]]

It will be hard to shave the pill down less than that. What is confusing to you about titration?

 

Billy.

[[an...]]

The whole thing??!  I feel like such a dummy. . . :-(

[[...]]

You're not a dummy.  Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

Titration can be a bit confusing at first.

 

You may wish to post on the titration taper board to get answers to any questions you have about titration from people who are using this method.

 

Here is a link to a video that explains milk titration quite well.  Some people use water ore baby food.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQefn6JnP64

 

Feel free to ask as many questions as you need to. 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Be...]]

Hi Angel,

 

Below is a taper plan that you could loosely follow until 1mg.. This might help just a little. 

 

This plan was kindly written by someone over on TRAP when I was a member there

 

Valium taper with 5 & 2 mg

 

 

 

Using 5mg and 2mg Tablets to Cut Your Valium by .25mg

 

By using combinations of 5mg and 2mg Valium tablets, you can easily and accurately reduce your Valium dose in .25mg increments. This simple method works until you taper down to 1mg Valium, at which point you can continue to cut by .25mg by either slicing your 2mg Valium tablets into eight equal pieces (many people find this difficult, while others find it quite simple, opting to do this throughout their tapers), utilizing liquid Valium, having a compounding pharmacy produce special .25mg Valium tablets, or titrating.

One-half (1/2) of a 2mg Valium tablet equals 1mg

One-fourth (1/4) of a 2mg Valium tablet equals .5mg

(Simply cut your 2mg tablet in half, and then cut each half in half. You should end up with four pieces of the same size, with each piece equaling one-fourth (1/4) of your original 2mg tablet.)

One-half (1/2) of a 5mg Valium tablet equals 2.5mg

One-fourth (1/4) of a 5mg Valium tablet equals 1.25mg

As there are many possible combinations of the above, the following guide is simply a sample of options that will hopefully assist you on your tapering journey! (10mg Valium was an arbitrary starting point.)

 

10mg: Two 5mg tablets (5mg + 5mg=10mg)

 

9.75mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 1.25mg + 2mg + 1mg + .5mg = 9.75mg)

 

9.5mg: One 5mg tablet, ½ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet (5mg + 2.5mg + 2mg = 9.5mg)

 

9.25mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 1.25mg + 2mg + 1mg =9.25mg)

 

9mg: One 5mg tablet, two 2mg tablets (5mg + 2mg + 2mg = 9mg)

 

8.75mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 1.25mg + 2mg + .5mg =8.75mg)

 

8.5mg: One 5mg tablet, ½ of a 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 2.5mg + .5mg = 8.5mg)

 

8.25mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet (5mg + 1.25mg + 2mg = 8.25mg)

 

8mg: One 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 2mg + 1mg = 8mg)

 

7.75mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 1.25mg + 1mg + .5mg = 7.75mg)

 

7.5mg: One 5mg tablet, ½ of a 5mg tablet (5mg + 2.5mg = 7.5mg)

 

7.25mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 1.25mg+ 1mg = 7.25mg)

 

7mg: One 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet (5mg + 2mg = 7mg)

 

6.75mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 1.25mg + .5mg = 6.75mg)

 

6.5mg: One 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 1mg + .5mg = 6.5mg)

 

6.25mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet (5mg + 1.25mg = 6.25mg)

 

6mg: One 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + 1mg = 6mg)

 

5.75mg: ½ of a 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet (2.5mg +1.25mg + 2mg = 5.75mg) 

 

5.5mg: One 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (5mg + .5mg = 5.5mg)

 

5.25mg: ¼ of a 5mg tablet, two 2mg tablets (1.25mg + 2mg + 2mg = 5.25mg)

 

5mg: One 5mg tablet 

 

4.75mg: ½ of a 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (2.5mg + 1.25mg + 1mg = 4.75mg)

 

4.5mg: Two 2mg tablets, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (2mg + 2mg + .5mg = 4.5mg)

 

4.25mg: ¼ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (1.25mg + 2mg + 1mg = 4.25mg)

 

4mg: Two 2mg tablets (2mg + 2mg = 4mg)

 

3.75mg: ¼ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (1.25mg + 2mg +.5mg = 3.75mg)

 

3.5mg: ½ of a 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (2.5mg + 1mg = 3.5mg)

 

3.25mg: ¼ of a 5mg tablet, one 2mg tablet (1.25mg + 2mg = 3.25mg)

 

3mg: One 2mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (2mg + 1mg = 3mg)

 

2.75mg: ¼ of a 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (1.25mg + 1mg + .5mg = 2.75mg) 

 

2.5mg: ½ of a 5mg tablet

 

2.25mg: ¼ of a 5mg tablet, ½ of a 2mg tablet (1.25mg + 1mg = 2.25mg)

 

2mg: One 2mg tablet

 

1.75mg: ¼ of a 5mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (1.25mg + .5mg = 1.75mg)

 

1.5mg: ½ of a 2mg tablet, ¼ of a 2mg tablet (1mg + .5mg = 1.5mg)

 

1.25mg: ¼ of a 5mg tablet

 

1mg: ½ of a 2mg tablet

 

[[bl...]]

I'll be honest. I find this stuff totally confusing. But I am water titrating, and here is how I made it easier for myself:

 

1. I bought a glass measuring cup from the supermarket for 6 dollars. It has a beaker-style pour spout and a 100 milliliter mark in it. I pour tapwater in there and look closely to make sure it's the right amount.

 

2. I pour it into a small plastic drinking bottle which I used nailpolish to mark the line that the water fills to (that's in case I need to prepare another dose while I'm out -- easy in the bathroom anywhere the way that I do it -- I fill it from the tap to that line, which has been carefully checked to be the same as 100 ml).

 

3. With the water now in the bottle, I drop in the whole pill I would be taking (the original dose you were prescribed and are tapering off of) and leave it for about ten minutes or less. It dissolves. I swish it around for a moment so that it suspends evenly. Every medication is probably a little different here. Xanax works just fine and stays suspended evenly for a minute or two if it's well dissolved.

 

I think about the water I'm looking at as if it were a great big pill that I was cutting. Now that it's in water, I can be more precise about cutting it.

 

4. Then, I take out the amount of water that I will be discarding. I personally use a measuring teaspoon set which I checked. A teaspoon should hold 5 milliliters. A half teaspoon should hold 2.5 milliliters. One eighth teaspoon should hold  .625 milliliters. You can also use an oral baby syringe which the pharmacist can give you. These are measured in milliliters. I just use spoons because they look inconspicuous in my purse. I have to be out a lot.

 

5. After you take out the water and have thrown it away, which you can even do in a public restroom stall, you drink the water in the bottle. You can do this in the bathroom. No one will notice if you are discrete. I've drank it while teaching. No one batted an eye. The only catch there is that a little bit of the medication might stick to the inside of the bottle. With Xanax, you can see the little tiny grains. So usually, if I'm near water, I pour a tiny bit more water in, give it another swish, and drink it again. There. The grains are gone.

 

6. At the end of the day, I document what I did on a spreadsheet so that I don't lose track. It's not very scientific. It just has the amounts so that I know how to keep reducing and don't forget.

 

The entire process, other than the part where the pill dissolves, takes about one minute.

 

The usual question is "how fast do I want to cut?" or "What is my current dose and how does that translate into how much benzo water to remove?" Anyone on the titration board can help there.

 

I have been cutting at a higher rate because I'm on a bigger dose. By the end of this month, I will have cut 1/6th of my total dose without much in the way of side effects. I do have some here and there. But they are liveable.

 

Personally, I don't follow a schedule in advance for the cuts. I use slightly "large" cuts, wait to feel okay which for me has been about five days per cut, and then make another cut. I've seen some people take out 1ml per day, others aim for 5% cuts over a week, others for 10%, and others more like me. My taper should take about six months total if it continues at this rate. For someone whose been on Xanax for sixteen years, that sounds just fine. I don't want heavy w/d symptoms which I've definitely had before; can't afford them because I have a job that I can't lose.

 

I hope this has helped.

 

I think the process is explained in a way that can be confusing, but it's actually pretty simple! Especially if you use 100 ml of water and remember that each 1 ml you take out is a 1% cut. If your pill is like mine, 1 mg, it's even easier to calculate. But even if it wasn't, I can just take it and divide it by the Valium equivalency. For example, for me, that's 1 mg Xanax = 20 mg Valium. So my original Xanax dose is 3 mg per day = 60 mg Valium. I've cut to 2.55 mg Xanax per day now. Multiple that by 20, and I can see that I'm now taking an equivalent of 51 mg Valium. Not bad!

 

This confused me to no end before I settled into my own method.