If I go to the hospital/psych ward, will they stabilize me and then I can taper?

[[Ti...]]

I am totally losing it, not sleeping again, many head symptoms, pressure, fatigue, DP.  I've been handling many physical, but now with these new mental sx, I am feeling completely unwound and this morning had a bad benzo/panic attack which never happens (usually I'm just miserable and sick but dealing with it).  My poor husband was crying and he never cries.  I am so lost.  All this after dropping 1/6 Ativan and adding 1/6 Valium 2 mondays ago-just been getting worse and worse.  My CNS is a mess and have been having awful benzo flu sx too--day and night nonstop.  I am pretty much non-functional and feel no attachment to my family, yet I know I love them.  Feeling this way sends me into a panic.

 

Will the hospital stabilize me?  I am on 1/2 and 1/2 valium and ativan.  Crossover not going well.  I am scared I will go to the psych ward and they won't even believe me it's w/d and tell me I'm having mental issues.  I am completely at my wits end though...Has anyone gotten stabilized at the hospital/psych ward then was able to taper off eventually.

 

Or should I just updose myself to stabilize?  My "benzo-wise" doctor has no clue...

[[re...]]

Hi Tina,

I checked myself into a psych hospital for one night after the doctors convinced me I was doing this to myself. For me it was not a good experience and I don't speak of it anymore. If I had known my problems were withdrawal I would likely have handled things differently.

 

I know what you're going through. I know you're scared. I know your husband is scared. You will get through this. I can't tell you if you should or shouldn't go to the hospital, but I can tell you a therapist helped me tremendously. I would highly recommend a good therapist to help you through this process. I know you're struggling to get off these drugs. I can honestly say I would never have made it through a taper so you have all of my respect. I know you can do this and you are so much stronger than you feel right now. Try to meditate. I know it's hard, but it will help with coping skills. I also did some EFT (emotional freedom techniques I think is what it's called). Google and find a video. It seems silly when you start but approach it like meditation and it will help some. Start listing out all of your friends, family coworkers, teachers, whatever, in your mind. Focus on simple distractions. You CAN do this!

[[Da...]]

If you feel like you're going to hurt yourself, or don't trust where you "could" go, I would go if I were you. You are not on a high dose, or for that long. Can you call your doc on the weekend and see? Whenever I feel like this and I'm not suicidal or hopeless, I try to stay home, watch movies, keep the lights low, and sleep it off. If you feel you must updose, that is your choice. But try to at least call your doc/ a doc on call and see what they say. They won't throw you in the loony bin if you're not a threat to yourself or others.  They're not legally allowed to. 

[[Ra...]]

I've been in a psych ward a long time ago. It's good for people who are suicidal, but I don't see where it will help this issue. They basically lock you in so you can't leave. It's boring.

[[Ti...]]

Thank you for your replies.  No would not hurt myself but can't stand this DP and disattachment to my family.  It is scaring me.  Also so many physical sx--I feel so sick and can't even sleep as the insomnia is raging.  Benzo flu sx for a week now--shivering, feel so sick and out of it.  I just feel so hopeless.  The physical are bad enough but being in this fog is pushing me over the edge mentally.  It's like having a bad flu every day but not being able to sleep or get comfortable in any way and being mentally out of it.  I know I'm not crazy but I feel like I will never get out of this mess I am in.  I am on 2 meds--the crossover didn't work.  I just want to get stabilized and do a slow taper.  That is ALL I want.  First taper failed because went too fast.  Crossover too harsh for my system I guess.  Now I'm stuck on 2 meds.  My doctor will not have a clue--I've called him before.  He is "benzo-wise", but is a detox doctor, not a psychiatrist.  I just don't know if I should updose to stabilize or just continue to wait it out.  Way to scared to do a c/t.  I just can't imagine 6 month taper feeling this way though. 

 

Please tell me the mental sx pass???  Those are far scarier than all the physical ones.

 

Thank you again for your support everyone.

[[Ti...]]

LOL--Radroy you probably didn't intend to but you totally made me smile-- 'it's boring"--LOL  That's the last thing I was imagineing--maybe terrifying and humiliating and a nightmare, but never Boring--makes sense though!  I have never been in one so have no idea.  I am just looking for some relief of these awful sx I think and I want to know where to go from here with my taper!  Updose, hold, etc. 

 

I just feel that if my sx are THIS extreme it means my CNS is in pain and getting damaged.  Mild sx are fine, but extreme ones can lead to protracted right?  I am thinking my brain needs some benzo to calm down, but don't want to go back up in dose for no reason.

 

All I want is to stabilize and do a gradual taper-that's all I want...

[[Ga...]]

Can you just keep telling yourself it is only sx's and it will be OK "I will be ok, this will pass" is what I kept telling myself. i did a c/t off 3 mg xanax last Aug 15th and wow, if it werent for the people here I probably wouldve went to the ER it was so bad. I had the heart palps, nothing seemed real or normal, heart jumped at sudden sounds, couldnt open the front room blines, sunlight almost blinded me and more couldnt sleep either.

Everything you are experiencing does sound like w/d symptoms so hold tight cause they are sure to pass and Mon am call your Dr and tell him the crossover doesnt seem to be working?

I, too was given 2 more meds that really didnt help my w/d so just have to wait it out from my experience:(

Good luck!!

[[Da...]]

LOL. I went to one once and wasn't bored, that's for sure! Lots of cheap entertainment.

 

There's nothing OTC you can take to get you to just curl up in bed and sleep it off?  Kind of like the flu or a hangover. That is what I have done before and it never failed me. Just remind yourself that this is temporary, you're ill, it's not your fault, and you will get better. 

 

The mental sxs are WAY worse than the physical ones, at least for me. I hate DP... SO much. But it passed. You are not alone.

[[Ti...]]

Davey--no can't sleep--too amped up.  Even tried trazadone last night.  Your DP went away though?  Thank God.  Need reassurance.

 

Gardenia--how are you doing now??  Have the mental sx passsed?  How about physical?  I am just so scared that I will be protracted because my sx are so severe and I"m not even really tapering yet.  I've gone up and down several times so am kindled too.  Don't want to go back up, but if my CNS is in this much of a crisis, then that is what leads to protracted right?

 

My sx are severe--I was taking jibberish this morning--omg, my skin is on fire, head feels like a vice, skin on face burning, nauseated, total and complete fatigue, yet completely amped up inside and can't sleep more than a couple hours a night, etc.  Isn't this my CNS screaming--stabilize me!  If I wait it out, isn't it just doing more damage??  That's what the trend seems like??  Or am I wrong??  Everyone in protracted had bad tapers/cold turkeys, and I am scared I am going in that direction...

[[Ti...]]

Recovered--thank you for the tips--EFT did work once or twice.  I guess I can give it another go.

[[Da...]]

Davey--no can't sleep--too amped up.  Even tried trazadone last night.  Your DP went away though?  Thank God.  Need reassurance.

 

Gardenia--how are you doing now??  Have the mental sx passsed?  How about physical?  I am just so scared that I will be protracted because my sx are so severe and I"m not even really tapering yet.  I've gone up and down several times so am kindled too.  Don't want to go back up, but if my CNS is in this much of a crisis, then that is what leads to protracted right?

 

My sx are severe--I was taking jibberish this morning--omg, my skin is on fire, head feels like a vice, skin on face burning, nauseated, total and complete fatigue, yet completely amped up inside and can't sleep more than a couple hours a night, etc.  Isn't this my CNS screaming--stabilize me!  If I wait it out, isn't it just doing more damage??  That's what the trend seems like??  Or am I wrong??  Everyone in protracted had bad tapers/cold turkeys, and I am scared I am going in that direction...

 

Protracted w/d has never been proven and neither has kindling in benzos. I think you're getting yourself worked up. People  think they have it, but what else do we think when we're in the middle of w/d? Trazadone never made me tired at all. OTC sleeping pills worked best for me, sometimes even better than Ambien. Yes, my DP went away, but I was on a higher dose and basically c/t from 2 mgs of Ativan to 1/4 mg- bad idea! I hope you aren't insulted by this, but how can  .1 Ativan and 1 mg. Valium make you feel like that? I am asking because I've tapered off before and I am not sure .1 mg Ativan would make it past my throat. Are we different?

[[Da...]]

Good!

[[Ti...]]

Davey--exactly.  I am just so dang sensitive.  Have been from the start.  It makes no sense.  I c/t off Valium 6 years ago and suffered w/d then (but didnt know it), so maybe that's why... Then I"ve gone up and down a few times on this go-around.  Small dose doesn't matter for me--I am totally stuck on this stuff.  Always been super sensitive to meds--also weigh barely 100 lbs.  I am so frustrated I can't just get off.  I don't know what's wrong with me and why every cut/change in dose affects me so much.  I was tapering fine in January but thought "this is crazy, it's such a low dose", so took a 30 or 40% cut overnight and omg the floor fell out beneath me and I haven't fully recovered since.  Completely lost sleep, went into some sort of psychosis, and it's jsut been getting worse since (well better for awhile when increased Valium but then bad again when decreased Ativan).  Ativan is the devil himself.

[[Ti...]]

Buddies--I felt so out of it this morning that I was talking jibberish--saying "ubba dubba dubba"--scared the crap out of me.  Just so overwhelmed with how sick I feel--both physically and mentally--it's like I just lost it.  I knew I was sane b/c I was scared of what was coming out of my mouth.  Has that ever happened to everyone?  What is WRONG with me!?!??!

[Guest [Pf...]]

If you think you need some more of the benzo to taper, then it would probably be best to take some more on your own.  All they could do for you in the hospital is give you benzo to taper.  And since they will control your medication, it will be a lot harder for you to get exactly the right dose.

 

In general, it is very hard to get exactly the right amount of drug in the hospital.  The doctor will write the orders, but then it may not be the amount you need, but until the doctor changes it, that is what you will get.  And if you are in an unstable zone, the amount you need might need to be slightly different each day until you get stable.  It is a lot easier to do trial and error on your own (under a doctor's care).  The best situation is having a doctor who accepts that this is withdrawal and is willing to allow you to make adjustments on your own, based upon what your body is telling you.

[[Ti...]]

Davey--.1 mg. ATivan=1 mg Valium.  So I am on 2 mg. Valium basically.  Not a small amount for a small, highly sensitive person.

[[Ti...]]

Good point Pfeff.  Have you had to updose to stabilize?  I see you had some failed tapers.  I feel I need to stabilize or I won't get through this taper.  You were finally successful so what worked for you??  Very good point though.  My doctor does believe it's w/d but he's all the way in LA and I've only seen him once.  I think he will be open to what I want to do then.  I am just scared of going up though even though my body is suffering.  I guess 1/6 cut in Ativan was too big, despite putting in the equiv. Valium dose.  Updosing has worked in the past though, but I know it can be a bad idea.  Not sure what to do here.

[[Ti...]]

And should I increase Ativan to stabilize (original poison) or just add in more valium.  The doctors have no clue.  It's a guessing game.  It's up to me I know.  I feel Valium is the lesser of the two evils--maybe it will balance me out a bit. 

 

I wonder if anyone has to add more Valium in cross-over than Asthon recommends?

[[Da...]]

Valium can be more sedative and depressive...

[[An...]]

Davey--no can't sleep--too amped up.  Even tried trazadone last night.  Your DP went away though?  Thank God.  Need reassurance.

 

Gardenia--how are you doing now??  Have the mental sx passsed?  How about physical?  I am just so scared that I will be protracted because my sx are so severe and I"m not even really tapering yet.  I've gone up and down several times so am kindled too.  Don't want to go back up, but if my CNS is in this much of a crisis, then that is what leads to protracted right?

 

My sx are severe--I was taking jibberish this morning--omg, my skin is on fire, head feels like a vice, skin on face burning, nauseated, total and complete fatigue, yet completely amped up inside and can't sleep more than a couple hours a night, etc.  Isn't this my CNS screaming--stabilize me!  If I wait it out, isn't it just doing more damage??  That's what the trend seems like??  Or am I wrong??  Everyone in protracted had bad tapers/cold turkeys, and I am scared I am going in that direction...

 

Protracted w/d has never been proven and neither has kindling in benzos. I think you're getting yourself worked up. People  think they have it, but what else do we think when we're in the middle of w/d? Trazadone never made me tired at all. OTC sleeping pills worked best for me, sometimes even better than Ambien. Yes, my DP went away, but I was on a higher dose and basically c/t from 2 mgs of Ativan to 1/4 mg- bad idea! I hope you aren't insulted by this, but how can  .1 Ativan and 1 mg. Valium make you feel like that? I am asking because I've tapered off before and I am not sure .1 mg Ativan would make it past my throat. Are we different?

 

Tina

 

I know I have suggested jumping before and you say you are sensitive to meds.  IMHO 2mg of Valium is a very low dose - my psychiatrist at the Priory Hospital, London told me most people tend to jump at that point.  You only start to heal when you are off these drugs.  If you are feeling so bad, I can't see what you are hoping to gain by prolonging your time on the drugs and even thinking of updosing?

 

Sorry hun  - I don't mean to offend and you obviously come here for advice - but if it were me I would have jumped long ago.

 

PS Maybe write to Bliss Johns on Recovery Road or via Facebook if you want her opinion too.

 

Angel

 

Again, whatever you decide to do, good luck!

[[Ga...]]

hi Tina,

oh yes Im better now. I had a hard time talking too at first felt like everything I said came out wrong but

I sleep ok. I take 1/2 a unisom and sleep all night. i went thru the nothing seems real, too It goes away.

My worst symptom is inner vibrating and ring ears, right now, neither one is too bad. For some reason eating can really bring on the vibrating

I know one thing, mornings are the worst, still is, but not as bad as it was.

Hang in there

[[ve...]]

Hi Tina.  Sorry for your situation.  I did a c/t off 6mg valium a few years ago and got really really ill including vertigo, agitation, anxiety, insomnia... I found a neurologist who understood valium tapers and told me that they taper 2.5mg slowly, that it is no small amount!  I reinstated and waited a few months and began my taper from 6 to 2mg over about four months.  When I got to 2mg, I hit a huge wall.  Maybe it's something about 2mg (I've read on forum of other people having a hard time at 2mg, also at 5mg for those starting higher doses).  Anyway, I had to hold for three weeks and then I got liquid valium and went down very slow. I would never suggest jumping off at 2mg valium. 

 

For people who are very sensitive like you seemed to be (and I was too), daily titration is also an option.  Mtmimi here can help if your doctor might be willing to prescribe liquid valium.  At this point, if you are still not sleeping at all, I would consider updosing to 1.5mg or even 2mg on the valium.  How much sleep are you getting right now?

 

It's important to stabilize for a few weeks before you start to taper again, even if it means going up slightly on the valium, then going very slowly from there.  Also, when did you up the valium?  It can take some days to take effect in your system. 

 

How do you plan to reduce the rest of the ativan?  Do you have it in some liquid form?  It might be worth considering doing a complete crossover to valium even if it means going slightly up in dose on the valium.  I agree that increasing the ativan might not be adviseable but check with your doctor about all tapering decisions.  Important thing now is to stabilize even if updosing a bit.  I did updose a couple of times and it's not a big deal usually.  However, the more times you go up and down, sometimes it makes it a little rougher.  Nevertheless, there's no point to suffering, not sleeping, being near psychosis... better to find some way to level off and then go really slow from there.  Many who rapid detox even off a small amount, when sensitive, regret it later.  You're still in a position to get relatively stable (even if you updose a bit) and taper very slowly down, allowing your GABA center to heal.

 

Good luck,

 

Vertigo

[[li...]]

Tina,

 

You may or may not appreciate this but I'll give you my perspective. I would say advice, but that's forbidden ?

 

Reading your very first post in this thread, it seems that going to the hospital would end in a stay at the psych ward. Probably voluntarily. There is a chance that the ER will give you benzos, but if you present your story the way you did in this post I think it will be the psych ward.

 

Agressive treatment with antipsychotics, antidepressants and the like is really not the best thing you can experience. In the USA, 'stabilizing' a mental patient -because that's what you are based on the description of your symptoms, anyway they will see it as such- typically involves polypharmacy, multiple powerful drugs to stabilize the patient and get the patient out of the hospital as soon as possible. Every day you are in the hospital costs money, so they will do what they can to stabilize you ASAP.

 

The problem with that is, IF they manage to stabilize you that way you'll be dependent on these new drugs to stay stable ! I think that should only be done as a last restort.

 

So, what next ?

 

I know you have been on this website for a long time. You've probably made friends here, visiting this forum. That's not only good. You may want to read this thread:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=7c41a8b2e63f2db6cc197f070a0fa036&topic=48083.msg649790#msg649790

 

Originally you were on a very low dose for a very short time. You are still on a low dose.

There is a HUGE difference between being on a benzodiazepine for years at medium to high doses (like most people on this forum) and being on a very low dose for a short time.

If you were to ask Prof Ashton if the 'Ashton method' applies to your situation she would almost certainly say 'no'.

Again, despite what people will say it just doesn't compare. Both types of situations can be hard but they are very different.

Have you read Perseverence's thread about the HPA axis ?

It's quite possible that by taking multiple tiny doses you are destabilizing your hormones and neurotransmitter functions.

You may be sensitive to medications but that may as well mean that you are sensitive to dose changes.

 

Without being 'prescriptive', to be blunt: stop visiting this website for advice or support, stop fiddling with Ativan or Valium, find a competent 'non benzo-wise' physician to help you get off the drug. I don't see how it makes sense to taper a benzodiazepine in your situation.

I don't know what meds a doc would prescribe. Perhaps an anticonvulsant (don't be afraid of 'high' doses, if the dose it too low you just get the bad side effects, not the therapeutic effects) or phenobarbital , something for sleep (personally I don't trust low doses of antipsychotics and antidepressants for that purpose) even if it involves a GABAergic drug, and make sure that you get enough nutrients- force yourself to eat or take specially prepared liquid meals, take whatever you and the doc deem necessary to get yourself out of this mess.

The only thing I would caution against is taking 'therapeutic' levels of antipsychotics and antidepressants - that could get you into a bigger hole.

 

If you manage to do this, you will most likely be better off in a few months.

 

This post may get me a ban, but I don't know how else to post without being unambiguous.

 

Don't rely on this board for medical advice, but go to your doc. Just don't get the wrong type of doc (suggesting suboxone, claiming that you have a mental illness and such).

Even a good PCP/GP should be able to do the basics.

 

I'm sorry if this is hurtful.

[[Da...]]

Tina,

 

You may or may not appreciate this but I'll give you my perspective. I would say advice, but that's forbidden ?

 

Reading your very first post in this thread, it seems that going to the hospital would end in a stay at the psych ward. Probably voluntarily. There is a chance that the ER will give you benzos, but if you present your story the way you did in this post I think it will be the psych ward.

 

Agressive treatment with antipsychotics, antidepressants and the like is really not the best thing you can experience. In the USA, 'stabilizing' a mental patient -because that's what you are based on the description of your symptoms, anyway they will see it as such- typically involves polypharmacy, multiple powerful drugs to stabilize the patient and get the patient out of the hospital as soon as possible. Every day you are in the hospital costs money, so they will do what they can to stabilize you ASAP.

 

The problem with that is, IF they manage to stabilize you that way you'll be dependent on these new drugs to stay stable ! I think that should only be done as a last restort.

 

So, what next ?

 

I know you have been on this website for a long time. You've probably made friends here, visiting this forum. That's not only good. You may want to read this thread:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=7c41a8b2e63f2db6cc197f070a0fa036&topic=48083.msg649790#msg649790

 

Originally you were on a very low dose for a very short time. You are still on a low dose.

There is a HUGE difference between being on a benzodiazepine for years at medium to high doses (like most people on this forum) and being on a very low dose for a short time.

If you were to ask Prof Ashton if the 'Ashton method' applies to your situation she would almost certainly say 'no'.

Again, despite what people will say it just doesn't compare. Both types of situations can be hard but they are very different.

Have you read Perseverence's thread about the HPA axis ?

It's quite possible that by taking multiple tiny doses you are destabilizing your hormones and neurotransmitter functions.

You may be sensitive to medications but that may as well mean that you are sensitive to dose changes.

 

Without being 'prescriptive', to be blunt: stop visiting this website for advice or support, stop fiddling with Ativan or Valium, find a competent 'non benzo-wise' physician to help you get off the drug. I don't see how it makes sense to taper a benzodiazepine in your situation.

I don't know what meds a doc would prescribe. Perhaps an anticonvulsant (don't be afraid of 'high' doses, if the dose it too low you just get the bad side effects, not the therapeutic effects) or phenobarbital , something for sleep (personally I don't trust low doses of antipsychotics and antidepressants for that purpose) even if it involves a GABAergic drug, and make sure that you get enough nutrients- force yourself to eat or take specially prepared liquid meals, take whatever you and the doc deem necessary to get yourself out of this mess.

The only thing I would caution against is taking 'therapeutic' levels of antipsychotics and antidepressants - that could get you into a bigger hole.

 

If you manage to do this, you will most likely be better off in a few months.

 

This post may get me a ban, but I don't know how else to post without being unambiguous.

 

Don't rely on this board for medical advice, but go to your doc. Just don't get the wrong type of doc (suggesting suboxone, claiming that you have a mental illness and such).

Even a good PCP/GP should be able to do the basics.

 

I'm sorry if this is hurtful.

 

I agree. 

[[ba...]]

I really feel  for you and all the sufferi gyou aregoing through, I to suffered greatly in my taper but so glad Iam benzo free. You are the one who must decide what you are going to do. The forum buddies can not  make the decision for you. The stress you are experiencing not making up your mind is not doing you any good, make a decision and follow through as the nike solgan says  JUST DO IT become benzo free, there is not a perfect way to do it