Alcoholism and Benzo "addiction" ???

[[os...]]

I just wrote this in another thread but as it is quite long i wanted to start a thread on alcoholism and Benzo´s... so this is a re-post.

 

Librium was my original Benzo and i am tapering off it now, no change. I am alcoholic, yet i never mixed the pills with drinking, ever. I used to drink once a week and when i did drink, i left out the Benzo that evening (i only ever dosed in the evenings).

 

I never reached tolerance, i am essentially tapering because my Doc is retiring, yet i started out in AA and figured after a few months that i was not "truly" sober until i quit the pills too, deep down i knew that (for me), real sobriety had to mean being clean also... i had no "buzz" from the Librium and used to flatly deny i derived anything from it, yet it took the edge off, just enough to quash any thoughts of drinking... in a sense it was a deterrent... if i popped a pill, i knew i could not drink and in most cases, after it started working the thought of a drink would dissolve anyhow... that is essentially why i carried on taking it and later on, to stop withdrawals obviously.

 

Now i am tapering right down into the lower numbers, i am finding that i am having little to no effect at all, other than to stave off withdrawals as much as possible, i never had "morning anxiety" before, yet i have it now, if my taper goes even slightly too fast, i get those surges, i have had the terror and the fear also, i literally had no idea that quitting this was going to be so hard... i thought my battle was alcohol, now i realize it is the Benzo also... that i was not prepared for.

 

I am not sure how i feel about being "addicted", if i were i do not think i could have tapered this far... physically dependent? Absolutely... yet when this taper is over, i am really wondering if i will just be able to forget about the Benzo? I know that my cravings for alcohol will be far more intense, i will have no drug to help that, it will not be easy and i am starting to see why so many alcoholics turn to AA for help as alcoholism is a life time thing... yet apparently, once we are healed from Benzo´s it´s over, yet for an alcoholic like myself, i cannot help but wonder if i will crave a Benzo BECAUSE of my alcoholism or whether i will simply be craving alcohol itself... in all probability it will be both... to a lesser degree with the Benzo, Librium is the weakest of them all and i am, at this stage, grateful i did not get into any other Benzo´s, probably why my Doc put me on Librium to start with, there is no recreational value to Librium, not really... having said that, for an alcoholic like myself, it was better than nothing at all, in many ways it allowed me to stop/start drinking again but ultimately at a price far higher than i anticipated...

 

I do not think i will go for days/weeks/months craving Benzo´s, i don´t now and i have a drawer full of them, i have enough to last me a year, i have no desire to "cheat", yet i am aware that my defense against drink is far less now... so on top of tapering and feeling bad at times, i also have the added battle in my mind with alcohol... last night i was really fed up and bored (at least i felt well enough to feel bored i suppose), yet the thought of a drink was not far off... or... something, just what i need in this journey...

 

 

 

Morning stress and anxiety? I never had it before but i do now... many times i even questioned if i should really be quitting the Librium... most have the "luxury" of having something to take the edge off after all... but i can debate that one over and over, my main goal is to give real sobriety a chance, i am sure we all heal from Benzo´s, as far as the addictive issue goes, i cannot answer that yet... in some ways it can be seen as "booze in pill form"... so i may not be so lucky, i guess i´ll just be doing a lot of AA meetings once i am over this taper, right now, i cannot cope with the thought of addressing booze also... for now my thoughts are mostly wrapped up in my taper, when i get thoughts of a drink, i´ll just have to tough it out one day at a time... i know a better life is ahead, i can only live that life if i go to it, if i don´t i will never find out... and as for the anxiety, i just pray as an alcoholic, that this passes in time... alcoholics recover too but the thoughts of a drink can persist for life... it´s an ongoing process that can only be met one day at a time.

 

I know that many in AA are on meds, SSRI´s, Benzo´s, it is not for anyone to judge others and there are some that need their meds, i only know what MY sobriety means to me... they say in AA that half measures avail us nothing... could i have done sobriety on Librium? Maybe, yet many are sober and med free... i don´t see why i can´t be the same, nothing in this life worth having ever came easy, yet given time and effort to live well, i am sure we all reach a place of contentment and serenity... at least Benzo withdrawal does come to an end... in that regard i am hopeful for a better life, albeit a sober one too... and who knows, i may find life far better than i had ever imagined... i like to think that will be the case as i know that the old timers in AA often sing how grand life is... and i believe them, the good life does come if we are resolute and determined enough to pursue it at any cost... these times do come to pass.

 

If anyone wants to chime in about the subject of alcohol and Benzo´s i´d be interested... how do you view Benzo´s in relation to booze? Have you turned to alcohol as a substitute or maybe drinking was the pre-cursor to being prescribed a Benzo... Do you think you might inherit a drink problem with no Benzo´s in your life?

 

Please share.

 

Oscar

[[en...]]

Whats strange with me is when I was young I ran with a party crowd. We got drunk every weekend and sometimes in the middle of the week. We drank beer, wine, and hard liquor. We did that for around 5 to 6 years. I never once craved alcohol and when I quit I never thought any more about it. Never craved it or had any WDs ever.

 

I always thought I didn't have that gene thats makes you crave alcohol.

 

Now to benzos. I have only been on clonazepam since Aug 2011 and I am addicted as I can be. I am a little over half done with my taper and have had many of the classic WDs.

 

Benzoe are in a class of their own. I don't care who you are, they will bring you to your knees. When I get free of them you can bet the farm that I will never take another one.

 

endeavor to persevere

[[Ga...]]

Hey pal,

 

I am at 3 months off. Having cravings for benzos in withdrawal is quite a rare symptom, or at least that is my understanding. Everyday, the thought of taking another pops into my head but it doesn't stay long. I don't have a desire or a craving to take one, it's more like I wonder what would happen if I did. In any case, I know I couldn't go back on them because of what they did to me. I never experienced an emotional connection with these drugs in the way that I do with cigarettes. I imagine that there can be a strong emotional connection with alcohol which I guess you're dealing with. I would think it very unlikely that you'll be dealing with benzos in that way.

[[os...]]

Hey pal,

 

I am at 3 months off. Having cravings for benzos in withdrawal is quite a rare symptom, or at least that is my understanding. Everyday, the thought of taking another pops into my head but it doesn't stay long. I don't have a desire or a craving to take one, it's more like I wonder what would happen if I did. In any case, I know I couldn't go back on them because of what they did to me. I never experienced an emotional connection with these drugs in the way that I do with cigarettes. I imagine that there can be a strong emotional connection with alcohol which I guess you're dealing with. I would think it very unlikely that you'll be dealing with benzos in that way.

 

I don´t think Benzo´s in and of themselves are addictive, not mentally anyhow, yet i think that in the "throes of withdrawal", the physical feelings of less and less Benzo can feel like alcohol withdrawal, purely from a physical point...

 

I felt i was physically craving alcohol a few hours ago... i ate and it mostly went BUT that could have been the withdrawal of the Benzo... it is very hard for me to differentiate the two right now!!! It could easily have been a craving for a drink but again, a physical craving, i have not been aware of the actual craving in my thoughts for a drink... i have been sober 14 months now but i think Benzo withdrawal in alcoholics is tricky as there are similarities physically...

 

Vertigo was touching on the sugar issues pertaining to Benzo withdrawal, the guy def has something there... we eat, we feel somewhat better...

 

Sorry, i am rambling... i am not craving a pill, absolutely not but my body is feeling a lack of Benzo/alcohol/food...

 

I do think once the Benzo is out my system it will be done and dusted... but being alcoholic, this tapering malarky has it´s challenges but i am not about to crash out my last 4mgs just to get there as i know where that will take me and it would not be pretty.

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

Let´s rock recovery.

 

Oscar

[[os...]]

Whats strange with me is when I was young I ran with a party crowd. We got drunk every weekend and sometimes in the middle of the week. We drank beer, wine, and hard liquor. We did that for around 5 to 6 years. I never once craved alcohol and when I quit I never thought any more about it. Never craved it or had any WDs ever.

 

I always thought I didn't have that gene thats makes you crave alcohol.

 

Now to benzos. I have only been on clonazepam since Aug 2011 and I am addicted as I can be. I am a little over half done with my taper and have had many of the classic WDs.

 

Benzoe are in a class of their own. I don't care who you are, they will bring you to your knees. When I get free of them you can bet the farm that I will never take another one.

 

endeavor to persevere

 

Hi Endeavour,

 

                      Benzo´s are known to be mostly a physical addiction, i think once we are done, it´s over... i hope so any road.

 

Keep going, you´re getting there, we´ll know soon enough but many seem to be able to move on... once physical stuff goes, we are probably mentally free at the same time... just have to find other ways to deal with stress etc...

 

Oscar

[[el...]]

Hi Oscar -

 

Like so many here and in the AA rooms, my alcoholism got me to a point where I was put onto benzos and became a double addict. In 1997, I started having panic and anxiety attacks. I got freaked out and went to the doctor. I do remember him asking me if I was a drinker and I said “No.” I honestly didn’t believe that I drank all that much, but looking back now, I can see that I drank a lot. I thought it was normal because that is how I drank for 27 years. In reality, I was an alcoholic for 27 years at that point.

 

Anyway, I ended up on Klonopin and continued drinking for 13 more years. This time I drank even more than I did the first 27 years. It was getting ridiculous. Countless nights of blackouts from the mix of booze and benzos. In 2008, I did go to AA meetings for about 6 months and stayed sober. During those months, I knew I would drink again. I don’t know if it was the K that pushed me to that conclusion, but I knew I would go back out. Despite all the warnings in the rooms that each time we go back out it gets harder and harder to come back in, I went back out - for 11 months. It was the beginning of the absolutely worst time of my life. There was nothing enjoyable about it. There was nothing remotely good about it. I was rapidly turning into someone I never had been in my life - some kind of monster that no one recognized.

 

Many times in church, I had asked God to help me quit drinking. The final time, I asked Him to make me quit drinking - whatever it would take. In a few weeks, I started getting panic attacks and major league anxiety. I knew it was the booze. It wanted me to start drinking all day instead of just getting totally blitzed at night. I knew I would die if that happened. So, I have been sober for over two years and 4 months now.

 

The anxiety, terror, and depression of PAWS was horrendous. As time went on, I did not improve. I was told by some benzo wise people that I was in tolerance w/d from the K and would never recover until I dropped the K. But first, like all good addicts, I had to updose the K to try to kill the panic. That landed me in the psych hospital for 3 weeks under suicide watch. Over those three weeks I was detoxed from 4 mg K, tortured with two or three different anti-depressants, and forced to participate in therapy sessions all the while shaking like a leaf and barely able to speak. To them I was just an addict. They also threw in four ECT treatments. Those treatments were every other day. On the days in between, I was forced to do a “mini-w/d” of my benzo because you can’t have benzos in your system during ECT. It was cruel. It was criminal. Every morning they would take my BP and pulse. The alarm on the machine would sound every time because my BP was usually up around 240/110 and my pulse was around 150 bpm. They would then take it again with the same results and tell me I was OK. I can’t imagine being treated more inhumanely. When I left, the doctor told me the w/d would be over in 48 hours.

 

I went home “clean” but fully expected to die the same evening I was discharged. I staggered out of that place hoping and praying I would die before I got to the car. It was beginning to snow as we went to the car. It was unbelievably surreal in a very, very horrid way.

 

When I got home, I had to reinstate 1 mg K after a week. The w/d was indescribably horrible. Over time, I was finally able to taper off the 1 mg K in three months. There is a whole lot more misery and suffering to my story that I have never written on the forum, but this gives the “flavor” of what I have endured. As of today, I am 19 months off benzos, and I have improved immensely since those wretched days. I am completely clean and sober. I have absolutely no desire or craving to pick up a drink or take any kind of mind-altering substance. My story is truly no less than one miracle after another. This should have killed me.

 

So, the one thing in my life that was responsible for the suffering of many years (and the indescribable suffering of the past 2+ years) has simply been the booze. That is it. There is no way I could possibly go through anything like this again. There is no way I will ever, ever pick up a drink. It would literally be death. I am in that class of “one is too many and ten is not enough.”

 

I remember my first time in the AA rooms. I would listen to everyone else’s “bottom” and think - “Poor suckers. Glad I didn’t go that low.” But, then I went back out, and I can now say I have a bottom that is deeper than most I ever heard in the rooms. I am not proud of it. I am grateful to be alive and truly healing and recovering. It’s so miraculous. I drank alcoholically for 40 years and took K for the last 13 of those years.

 

I am certain that I am alive only because there are others who need to hear my story - as a stern warning about alcohol abuse and where it will take you and as a vision of hope that we can and do recover from benzo w/d - even when it seems utterly impossible. If my aged brain can heal from the hell it‘s been through, anyone’s brain can heal.

 

Everyone does have a different bottom. The sad truth is that each time we go back out, we dig ourselves a new and deeper bottom. If we don’t quit, our bottom is eventually six feet under the ground. It’s just the reality and result of continuing to act out our addiction. The mix of benzos just speeds the process.

 

It took me most of my life to learn these simple truths.

 

(Sorry this is so long.)

 

eli

[[os...]]

Eli, thank you so much for sharing your story, i think i really needed to hear something like that, i am sorry for your trauma going back out, the main thing is you did not die, you made it back and you have your life, that is a miracle.

 

I have much to say but i will PM you tomorrow... it might be long winded but your story was a wake up call that i really needed, not just the picking up but the way we recover if we really want it enough... miracles do happen, i want to be one too.

 

I´m really grateful for your story, i relate to so much there and i am very happy you made it... a miracle indeed... when in doubt, when i find the going tough, i will read your story and know it gets better... that´s a real gift you gave... keep on giving it, people like me need to hear it, i know i did today.

 

Oscar.

[[Te...]]

Hi Oscar,

 

I'm impressed, you have one powerful success story that needs to be read & heard by many.  Please stay your current course...I think you will be successful and rewarded.  I so agree with you, I'm a recovering addict, too and a 12 stepper.  I firmly believe the "half measures availed us nothing".  I'm a Big Book thumper from way back.

 

Good Luck,

 

Taz

[[os...]]

Hi Oscar,

 

I'm impressed, you have one powerful success story that needs to be read & heard by many.  Please stay your current course...I think you will be successful and rewarded.  I so agree with you, I'm a recovering addict, too and a 12 stepper.  I firmly believe the "half measures availed us nothing".  I'm a Big Book thumper from way back.

 

Good Luck,

 

Taz

 

Thanks Taz, it is basically the half measures thing that got me into quitting the Benzo also... i knew deep down i was cheating myself of real sobriety... i collected tokens 1,2,3 and 6 months... i never picked up 9 and 1 year... i realized i need to be SOBER in order to take them... i am 14 months dry and one day, when i am Benzo free after this taper, i will start the steps over and earn those tokens for the benefit of others in the rooms...

 

 

I´m kinda excited to be gunning for a real life now... Eli´s post was just what i needed today and now i am grateful, gratitude always makes things so much better eh? It´s a powerful thing.

 

Oscar.

[[be...]]

Hi Oscar, thank you for sharing your personal experiences here on Benzo Buddies. Benzos are no joke and neither is alcohol. I am realizing more and more every day what a slippery slope I have been on. I would like to get to more solid ground and stay there.