took to big a cut need help

[Guest [...]]

Hello I went from 2.5 of valium to 2.00 11 days ago am finding out this was way to quick.  I feel so bad dreadful anxiety awake at four with terrible terrible anxiety which only gets slightly better when i move.  Is it to late to reinstate back to 2.5 and try to come down slower can someone please give me an answer today as I dont know what to do when i go to bed tonight.  Thanks

 

 

Lizzy

[[Pa...]]

If it were me I'd probably try and ride it out, but then again I probably don't have the best opinion on the matter. My first cut was by over half. I split the .5mg Xanax in half and took the smaller half.

[Guest [...]]

Hey Panic thanks for your reply I was on 4mg of xanax cross over to valium at 45mg and now down to 2mg tempted to ride it out couldnt get any worse seriously dont know what to do at all.  How r u feeling?

[[sp...]]

At 11 days, it would be more of an up dose than a reinstatement. I'd say ride it out, if it were me.

 

The last time I did this, I'm pretty sure I did 0.5mg cuts all the way down to zero, but we're all different.

 

You didn't make enough of a cut for it to be medically dangerous or be flirting with the kind of cuts that seem to cause worse protracted stuff. Ashton's original lit calls for 1mg cuts all the way down.

 

It's probably better to hold where you are for another week or two if necessary than bump up, and don't think about it too much, be kind to yourself and try to remain as calm as possible.

[[Be...]]

Hi, ld1.

 

I don't think it's too late to "dose correct" if you really feel you need to.  Of course, riding it out is often the best course but only you can determine just how much discomfort and sleeplessness you can tolerate.  This is what Prof Ashton had to say about reinstating and updosing, which is kind of what you would be doing if you go back to 2.5mg:

 

Reinstatement, updosing

A dilemma faced by some people in the process of benzodiazepine withdrawal, or after withdrawal, is what to do if they have intolerable symptoms which do not lessen after many weeks. If they are still taking benzodiazepines, should they increase the dose? If they have already withdrawn, should they reinstate benzodiazepines and start the withdrawal process again? This is a difficult situation which, like all benzodiazepine problems, depends to some degree on the circumstances and the individual, and there are no hard and fast rules.

 

Reinstatement after withdrawal? Many benzodiazepine users who find themselves in this position have withdrawn too quickly; some have undergone 'cold turkey'. They think that if they go back on benzodiazepines and start over again on a slower schedule they will be more successful. Unfortunately, things are not so simple. For reasons that are not clear, (but perhaps because the original experience of withdrawal has already sensitised the nervous system and heightened the level of anxiety) the original benzodiazepine dose often does not work the second time round. Some may find that only a higher dose partially alleviates their symptoms, and then they still have to go through a long withdrawal process again, which again may not be symptom-free.

 

Updosing during withdrawal? Some people hit a "sticky patch" during the course of benzodiazepine withdrawal. In many cases, staying on the same dose for a longer period (not more than a few weeks) before resuming the withdrawal schedule allows them to overcome this obstacle. However, increasing the dose until a longed-for plateau of 'stability' arrives is not a good strategy. The truth is that one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system.

 

Pharmacologically, neither reinstating nor updosing is really rational. If withdrawal symptoms are still present, it means that the GABA/benzodiazepine receptors have not fully recovered (see above). Further benzodiazepines cause further down-regulation, strengthen the dependence, prolong withdrawal, delay recovery and may lead to protracted symptoms. In general, the longer the person remains on benzodiazepines the more difficult it is to withdraw. On the whole, anyone who remained benzodiazepine-free, or has remained on the same dose, for a number of weeks or months would be ill-advised to start again or to increase dosage. It would be better to devote the brain to solving individual symptoms and to finding sources of advice and support. Advice about how to deal with individual symptoms is given in the Manual (Chapter 3).

 

 

[[Pa...]]

I'm feeling pretty horrible actually. I've had dp/dr that hasnt fully lifted since I began my taper along with a whole slew of other symptoms. I didn't taper very smart. I had taken Xanax everyday for around 3 years and thought just because I was mostly ever taking .5mg that I wouldn't wd.... Well I didn't think things could get worse, I'm a year off paxil which was horrendous to come off of after my dr gave me a rapid taper. Six months free of paxil and I got hit with Xanax tolerance wd. It's been hell on earth but i'm hanging in there the best I can. Sorry for the rambling, I'm feeling so bad tonight and it's nice to have someone to talk to. How's your overall taper going?

[Guest [...]]

Panick

 

Hey Im here for you.  Dont worry your not alone. Misery needs company mate and Im miserable so Ill join you lol.  See still somewhere deep I still have a sense of humour although its probably not even funny.  Dont worry about the ramble we all do it.  These doctors and their stupid medications.  I only had anxiety and ocd before i started this.  As you will see I to have been to hell and are now somewhere in between.  Had serious adverse affects to most antidepressants funny thing is I wasnt even depressed so wth did they give them to me for and why did I take them considering 8 years ago I had severe reactions to taking ssri's screwed my nervous system right up.  One would think I would learn from my mistakes but no not me I just keep on doing stupid things LIKE TRUSTING DOCTORS.  Tell me what kind of symptoms do you get?  Do you feel like your going crazy coz I do think I am.  And do you feel like your never going to get better despite the evidence that says we will.  Im thinking groundhog day myself.  Last weekend of summer in Australia this weekend and guess what Ive missed most of it because of these stupid benzo withdrawals.  Hopefully by next summer Ill be able to enjoy it.  Anyway see I ramble to would love to hear more from you and hopefully we can support each other through this

 

 

Lizzy

[Guest [...]]

Beeper and Spengler

 

 

Thanks so much for you replies very informative.  Ive decided to stick it out.  While Im feeling crazy I guess I can continue feeling this way for a little longer.  I just think if I up it it may not work anyway and then my 11 days of feeling like this will be for nothing so I will just hold for a while longer.  Will definately not make any more .5 cuts thats for sure will do .25 and hope to god I recover from this as I hope you all will to..

 

 

Thanks again so much

 

 

Lizzy

[[ve...]]

Hi Id1.  I would reinstate to about 3mg or more and hold for about 3 weeks. Your signature indicates that you crossed over to valium three weeks ago and have come down something like 40mg?  You are not tapering, reads more like an extended detox.  This forum recommends 10% cuts every week or two.  You've come down an average of what, 35% or more per week?

 

Valium takes about three weeks to process out of your body which means it's not too late to dose correct.  You may only now be starting to feel the cuts from two weeks ago. Unfortunately, you're probably in for a couple of rough weeks. Even updosing to 3mg or more may not be enough to stabilize as smoothly as you might like, but it can help you start to feel a little better.  Whatever you do, no more cuts for at least another week (might need to go back up a few miligrams if symptoms really become intense).  You might be at risk for tinnitus (ear ringing), vertigo (dizziness) or other strong withdrawal symptoms if you keep going with this speed without a break.  No sense in rushing or worrying about losing the last 11 days if you end up with six months to a year of intense withdrawal symptoms. Now is the opportunity for you to updose to a reasonable level and stabilize, in my opinion.  I know something about valium c/t and tapering (read my signature). Also, you can read my blog on page 17 of buddy blogs called "4mg and chipping away", if interested.

 

Do you have a doctor you are working with? If it were me, I'd go back up to about 3-5mg (maybe 3 or 4mg would be enough) and make small cuts every two weeks or so from there.  .25 cuts or less is a good idea after you stabilize which is likely going to take a while.  A 40mg taper should take about a year. Seems like you're trying to do it in a month or two?. 

 

Vertigo

[[ve...]]

You didn't make enough of a cut for it to be medically dangerous or be flirting with the kind of cuts that seem to cause worse protracted stuff. Ashton's original lit calls for 1mg cuts all the way down. It's probably better to hold where you are for another week or two if necessary than bump up, and don't think about it too much, be kind to yourself and try to remain as calm as possible.

 

Huh? Cutting from 45mg to 2mg in 18 days is not flirting with potential protracted withdrawal?  I think it's close to the definition of it! Maybe you didn't see Id1's signature about taking 40mg off in the last 2 1/2 weeks, and only read about her last cut. Ashton's lit about 1mg cuts is every week or two and that would be a minimum of 30-40 week taper, not 3! Also, Ashton was a pioneer but many people find a gradated scale starting at 1mg and then .50 and proceeding to .25 cuts at lower doses is much easier to tolerate, based on how big a dose one starts with and if symptoms intensify.  I do agree with bumping up and holding for two to three weeks.

 

Vertigo

[Guest [...]]

Hey Vertigo

 

How r u and thank you for your reply.  Let me tell you Ive been out of hospital for nearly four weeks so the taper started about 8 weeks ago.  Im actually allergic to xanax which they had me on for four months (seriously losers) then in hospital they stopped the xanax straight away and put valium in its place which was kinder but still sucked.  Anyway in 18 days i went from 45 down to 0 well obviously 2 days later my body went into shock and I took 2.5 and then he increased it back to 5 well that increase from 2.5 to 5 made me so sick i thought i was going to die.  Intense heat in my body no sleep almost delusional so Im hesitant to increase and may just suffer i shouldnt have cut that quick Im indeed a fool.  See my predicament Im stuffed either way too nervous to go up and to afraid not to.  If I did would just go back to 2.5 what do you think.

 

 

Lizzy

[[ve...]]

Hi Lizzy.  Allergy to xanax certainly complicates matters.  Is your doctor willing to prescribe liquid valium?  that would help to make smaller accurate cuts from here.  Check out my blog "under 4mg and chipping away" on page 17 or 18 of buddy blogs.  It's closed so no new posts allowed but you can read through it.  If your doctor is ok with it, I would seriously consider going up to 3mg now.  Bare in mind, the rapid taper you have done, you are likely not going to feel very well for a while no matter what but I think it might help take the edge off even if only a little,  to updose here.  You must obviously consult with your physician and consider the allergy issues as well.  You are lucky you didn't have a seizure when you went from 45 to 0.  Consider that a blessing.  What are your worst symptoms at this point?  Also, going back to 5mg may not have made you sick, it might have still been the impact of the rapid taper.  It takes a while for valium to build up in the system so I'm not so sure that going back up to 5 was the issue, you may have still been experiencing intense withdrawal from the original rapid detox.  I've unfortunately got to run but I'll check back with you later.  If it were me, I'd check with your doctor and maybe take the 3mg today, possibly 1mg in the morning and 2mg at night or if you're having a lot of trouble sleeping, maybe take the 3mg at night.  It may be that you need 4mg to stabilize.  Be prepared for a rough week or two until you can stabilize.  Some people do better with split doses although valium being what it is with longer half life, there's usually not an issue with interdose withdrawal so splitting doses may not be of any help.

 

Vertigo

[Guest [...]]

Thanks Vertigo

 

Kind of you to reply so fast.  Well i decided for tonight that I will just take the 2mg im ready for bed here in Australia.  Main prob is other than feeling completely crazy and unwell is the dreadful morning anxiety which is intense fear like I cant believe.  Fall asleep alright and dont wake up and then its like bang.  Was not there before i did this .5 cut.  Still felt like crap but managed and was starting to feel good.  but not me always in a hurry so im paying for it but no doubt I will stablise and until i do no more cuts.  I will definately check out you blog tomorrow excited to have a look and to see how you are doing will try and find it thats the problem.  but i see you put the pages in so will def look.  anyway will post when i wake and tell you what happened.

 

thanks again

 

Lizzy

[[Pa...]]

I can't believe what a nightmare  these drugs are 

It breaks my heart to see so many people going through such needless suffering.

I'm gonna go to bed, I hope you can get some sleep as well. Ima toss a prayer your way if you don't mind.

[[ve...]]

Thanks Vertigo.  Kind of you to reply so fast.  Well i decided for tonight that I will just take the 2mg im ready for bed here in Australia.  Main prob is other than feeling completely crazy and unwell is the dreadful morning anxiety which is intense fear like I cant believe.  Fall asleep alright and dont wake up and then its like bang.  Was not there before i did this .5 cut.  Still felt like crap but managed and was starting to feel good.  but not me always in a hurry so im paying for it but no doubt I will stablise and until i do no more cuts.  I will definately check out you blog tomorrow excited to have a look and to see how you are doing will try and find it thats the problem.  but i see you put the pages in so will def look.  anyway will post when i wake and tell you what happened.

thanks again

Lizzy

 

OK Lizzy.  So you're from Austrailia, mate? See how you feel tomorrow.  I think you have a window here to updose to avoid some withdrawal by going up to 3mg but it's up to you, based on your symptoms and what you can tolerate.

 

  I just had a look and confirmed that my blog is the last entry on p. 17 so it could go to p. 18 later today but it's pretty easy to find "under 4mg and chipping away" in the "Buddy Blog" section of forum.  Actually, when I started that blog, I was down to about 2mg, as I recall (a few years back).  I closed it last year after I wrote my "success story" last April or May?, can't recall.  Others on the blog were tapering their way down from anywhere from 1 to 4mg of valium so it might be a useful read for you.  Have a look and I'll be happy to answer any questions later this weekend.  I also have a blog here in withdrawal support section of forum called "Post Benzo Freedom Withdrawal Suppport group" which I started a a few months off valium when still experiencing some withdrawal symptoms.  By the way, why did you first take xanax and how long were you on it?

 

Have a good sleep,

 

V

[Guest [...]]

Hey Guys

 

 

Panick pray away mate any help I can get would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou

 

Vertigo

 

Story is I have or should I say had ocd.  I was given blood pressure meds because my anxiety level was already so high.  Took it for four nights and couldnt sleep then googled insomnia and thought I had a fatal sleeping illness can you believe that. dumb id say.  anyhow the stupid doctor gave me zyprexa for sleep well i had a severe reaction to that instead of calm out of control wanted to ram my head through the wall etc (must be noted im a kind caring calm person)  so anything these losers gave I had an adverse effect to went to hospital they gave me serequel well i was in so much pain internally i told them they were killing me they were like no you need more.  Well i still had the sense to sign myself out.  Then i went to the local hospital and the guy said you have to take these ocd meds and I will give you 4mg of xanax to knock any anxiety out of you.  I had already told him I couldnt take antidepressants because of severe reactions however he didnt care and I was so sick by then and my parents were with me they insisted i took it.  So I dont know if xanax feels good or bad because with the combination of antidepressants and xanax I was left crying non stop for 6 weeks until a doctor realised I was allergic to the crap including the antidepressants.  Then she tapered me off the antidepressant and i just stopped taking the 2mg in the morning because no one told me not to then when the taper was finished off the antidepressants I said so what about the xanax by this stage had been on it for  about 13 weeks she said well you went so well getting off the first 2 just stop the second 2mg and see how you go.  Well you can imagine how I went my whole body went into shock I started vomiting and then complete fear like I was possessed have never been so frightened in my life then the cow went on holidays for 3 weeks so i went tot he local doctor he reinstated me but was to late could not stop crying for weeks.  Checked into a private hospital where I was so sick for 7 weeks Merry Xmas i say all over xmas was in hospital they gave me an antidepressant that didnt work on serotonin still felt like crap on it but the crying stopped and the detox started.  So now here I am 2mg to go still feeling like crap but better than I ever have so less crapier than crap if that makes sense.  Anyway Im off to read your stuff will get back to you.

 

Lizzy

[Guest [...]]

hey Vertigo

 

something i needed to through in there four weeks after i had been in hospital my husband (LOSER) says to me and mind you I was so sick thought i was going to die told me he didnt know if he could do this anymore and im like what do you mean he says im sick of arguing and im like are you saying you want a seperation and he is like yes so I said so now your telling me not only do i have to go through this i also have to go through a marriage breakup.  Now im home and functioning he wants to have something to do with me but to late mate.  Visited twice in 7 weeks and i even came home for most days would leave me on the couch and not talk to me what a loser hey.  Just thought Id throw that in for the mix

 

Lizzy

[[Pa...]]

Sorry to hear about all your hardships lizzy. Hang in there, things will improve for you. 

[[JO...]]

My god Lizzy,

I just read your post no wonder you feel so awful. I think your CNS and body need a break honestly. I would recommend you upsdose to 3 mgs and hold for at least a month. Your body is crying out for some stablization. i have been at this for two years and am getting near the finish line . My taper has been very smooth for the most part . I have had to hold several times and even updosed a couple. The point is to get off as painlessly as possible. I am so sorry for all the suffering you have been through. I hope you get some relief soon.

[Guest [...]]

Thks Johano5

 

dont you think its to late for me to go up after being off for 12 days.  Do you think i should just stick it out in misery...... Im tempted to go up but hate these things so much Im damned if I do and damned if I dont.  Thankyou for your kind words I appreciate it.  My CNS is certainly screwed thats for sure.  Hope it recovers before I drop dead ... want to feel alive again

[[ro...]]

This is what Prof Ashton had to say about reinstating and updosing, which is kind of what you would be doing if you go back to 2.5mg:

 

Reinstatement, updosing

A dilemma faced by some people in the process of benzodiazepine withdrawal, or after withdrawal, is what to do if they have intolerable symptoms which do not lessen after many weeks. If they are still taking benzodiazepines, should they increase the dose? If they have already withdrawn, should they reinstate benzodiazepines and start the withdrawal process again? This is a difficult situation which, like all benzodiazepine problems, depends to some degree on the circumstances and the individual, and there are no hard and fast rules.

 

Reinstatement after withdrawal? Many benzodiazepine users who find themselves in this position have withdrawn too quickly; some have undergone 'cold turkey'. They think that if they go back on benzodiazepines and start over again on a slower schedule they will be more successful. Unfortunately, things are not so simple. For reasons that are not clear, (but perhaps because the original experience of withdrawal has already sensitised the nervous system and heightened the level of anxiety) the original benzodiazepine dose often does not work the second time round. Some may find that only a higher dose partially alleviates their symptoms, and then they still have to go through a long withdrawal process again, which again may not be symptom-free.

 

Updosing during withdrawal? Some people hit a "sticky patch" during the course of benzodiazepine withdrawal. In many cases, staying on the same dose for a longer period (not more than a few weeks) before resuming the withdrawal schedule allows them to overcome this obstacle. However, increasing the dose until a longed-for plateau of 'stability' arrives is not a good strategy. The truth is that one never 'stabilises' on a given dose of benzodiazepine. The dose may be stable but withdrawal symptoms are not. It is better to grit one's teeth and continue the withdrawal. True recovery cannot really start until the drug is out of the system.

 

Pharmacologically, neither reinstating nor updosing is really rational. If withdrawal symptoms are still present, it means that the GABA/benzodiazepine receptors have not fully recovered (see above). Further benzodiazepines cause further down-regulation, strengthen the dependence, prolong withdrawal, delay recovery and may lead to protracted symptoms. In general, the longer the person remains on benzodiazepines the more difficult it is to withdraw. On the whole, anyone who remained benzodiazepine-free, or has remained on the same dose, for a number of weeks or months would be ill-advised to start again or to increase dosage. It would be better to devote the brain to solving individual symptoms and to finding sources of advice and support. Advice about how to deal with individual symptoms is given in the Manual (Chapter 3).

 

So far I've been on board with Ashton's view of things, but here is where I am lost.

 

"The truth is that one never stabilizes on a given dose..."

 

How does that make sense if when you are prescribed the benzo in the first place, it is so that you stabilize at a specific dose that alleviates some condition (anxiety, sleep, RLS, etc.)?

Obviously originally you ARE stabilized, right? If a particular dose has been working for you for years, isn't that a stabilized dose? If you reduce below that, what you might be doing is not combating your condition as effectively, but if GABA receptors are suppose to "readjust", why wouldn't someone stabilize if they hold on long enough? Why is it that the body ONLY heals when there are no more benzos in the body? Clearly the receptors have to recover then, right?

 

ld1, I've been holding from a cut for 8 weeks and I still haven't stabilized, but I certainly think you could do with a hold. Again, I don't get why Ashton says not to cut too fast if she then says that during the cuts your receptors are NOT catching up to anything. I felt like my first two cuts were bad initially but that I did come back to some sort of baseline. If it's true that reducing AT ALL in the first place puts one on a slide that you can't get off until sometimes a year or more, why is it encouraged to get off in the first place UNLESS one has developed tolerance and assuming there are no serious side effects?

[Guest [...]]

Dear Rollin

 

Yes im hearing with you quite confusing.  Must say i started to stablise on 2.5 was starting to feel relatively normal for once.  Then making this .5 cut was just a dumb thing to do.  I think getting off it makes you worse for sure the hope is that once you off you permanently recover eventually in the meantime you just have to suffer.  But definately the longer you keep holding the longer you are on it right.  Thats what Im thinking anyway just means that you have the stuff in your system even more and they say thats bad to.  I really am confused as I dont think there are any right or wrong ways to go about getting off this stuff.  What symptoms are you having.  Do you ever get anxiety in the morning thats how i know i stuffed up because boom morning anxiety that i wasnt having.  Seriously thinking about going back to 2.5 tonight and take it a bit slower. oh I dont know so confused 12 days being at 2mg should i bother or just suffer some more.

 

Lizzy

[[ro...]]

My symptoms are exactly the ones that I am using clonazepam to treat. Go figure. Basically during the first 3-8 days of each cut, I've re-experienced the muscle tension in my neck, head and back but then it abated, only this time I never came back to "normal". I feel dizzy, I have head pressure, i feel dissociated, like my head is in a vice, basically all the things I was taking clon FOR. When I cut from 4 to 3.5 last March, I 100% came back to how I felt on 4 within 10 days. Isn't that stabilizing? I really need someone to explain this to me because if I'm going to keep feeling this way until I come off . I'm at 2.75, that means it's going to take a LONNNNNG time and I can say goodbye to my life as I'm just about to graduate). I am also seriously considering going to 3 to see if I do in fact stabilize (then try to come down more slowly in the future). I promise you that I was absolutely fine on 3.5 for years and then my doc just told me to reduce. She was suggesting that perhaps I don't need as much for my condition or that my condition had remitted and that I could now come off the meds.

 

Not so.

 

I don't know whether this is just withdrawal or whether my condition is not being treated enough to feel ok. They say it's impossible to tell. I have no new symptoms that were NOT a part of my original ailment, thus I can't tell whether it's WD. FTR I don't have anxiety, I take clon for it's effect on ridding me of purely physical symtoms which are excruciating.

 

I do get the point about getting off them faster, but I'm not sold on the whole "you'll get better once off" IF you don't get better by cutting (during) if you wait for a "catch up". Getting off completely IS cutting and I really don't understand why the receptors would not adjust to your "new dose" if it IS just withdrawal. In your case since you're so close, I almost think the opposite logic is true, that you'll only have to suffer for a little while longer to avoid protracted symptoms (which again, make no sense in this theory of how receptors are supposed to heal if holding longer doesn't make you better!). I cut below 10% each time, and I wanted to keep doing it until I realized I was not returning to baseline because I am so far away from 0 so I wanted to get somewhere lower more quickly. If I don't have my underlying condition, shouldn't I (and you) be able to stabilize at a lower dose if we give our brains enough time to heal?

 

I read the word healing all over this board, but if we aren't really healing on our way down, only when "benzos have left the system", it seems strange. I also wonder how many people's bigger problem are the benzo itself or the condition they originally took it for. It almost seems like it's the benzo given people rarely attribute their WD symptoms to the fact that they are still sick, and therefore NEED the benzo not to feel that way (or they wouldn't have needed it in the first place). I'm confused as hell. But yeah, since we don't know what's going on, I think err on the side of caution and don't shock your system too hard. It didn't seem to help me trying to cut every 10 days (although I only found this out after my third cut!)

[Guest [...]]

hey Rollin

 

Yes i do know what you are saying and that you were ok on a certain dose for a long time but once you start cutting your body is never right because you are constantly in a state of withdrawal if that makes sense.  My doctor said the other day that i could stay on 2.5 of valium forever and be ok so go figure your guess is as good as mine.  Guess what i have no real physical symptoms just a slight burning in my left lower leg and ridiculous early morning anxiety and that is it however i feel completely crazy although im acting normal and just very sad that this is happening to me and my beautiful boys who i love dearly.  have such a hate for these doctors need to work on that.  Let me know what you are going to do id be interested clarify this for me your saying you cut ,5 in march and then im reading you felt better or am i reading that wrong???.  Yes coming of is going to be a long process unless you quicken it up.  Obviously after 8 weeks you have not stablised that is saying something to me.  Im tending to go with as long as we stay on we will never get better you have to remember these drugs are poisons to our system and with all the up and downing of dosage just keeps it screwed thats my thoughts anyway let me know yours

 

 

Lizzy

[[ro...]]

Hey Lizzy,

 

Yes, when I cut 0.5mg from my 4mg/day dose to 3.5mg/day, I experienced acute WD for about ten days, and then it quickly abated and I felt pretty much 99%.

 

I think the issue of WD is when you cut below a level that cannot manage your condition. In my case, 3.5mg definitely managed my condition, even though I had reached it by cutting from 4. Thus I stabilized shortly and that was my new dose. I've tried to do that again by cutting this time, but perhaps I've crossed a threshold where my underlying condition is no longer treated.

 

I think that for many, the WD symptoms are unlike what they are taking the benzo for, although rebound anxiety might occur. I'm not sure most people on this board take it for HPPD, and thus for the exact symptoms that are synonymous with benzo withdrawal. Thus, when they cut, they experience all the symptoms (that I've been treating WITH clonazapam in the first place), but they do know that it's withdrawal. I assume they are trying to cope with whatever they took the benzo for by some other means, but that is really not clear to me. Have these people magically cured their anxiety and are now deciding that they just need to come off the drug OR are they just accepting that they will always have anxiety or whatever condition plus they need to go through the steps of withdrawal?

 

Again I don't get the constant state of withdrawal thing since IF acc. to theory, your receptors start producing GABA themselves some time after cutting. Going slow makes sense since the gap in GABA activity required to be made up is smaller. Why, if a person no longer has an ailment, would not stabilize after some time at a lower dose, confuses me. If that's true, once shouldn't be able to stabilize (read: be cured of benzos) once they get to 0 (+ however long after that).

 

You're definitely right about the 8 weeks telling me something, but looking at my history it would tend to say that my underlying condition still exists and 2.75 is not enough to treat it. IF it is only the WD process, it's taking a hell of a long time for these receptors to catch up. I do know that they do, however, since as I said I have experienced this when making a 4 to 3.5 drop (btw that's greater than 10%!).

 

I think the whole poison thing is a bit misleading since a lot of people are on the benzo because without it, their life would have fallen apart. I really never noticed any side effects from even such a high dose so the only concern was the unproven potential cognitive impairment and tolerance (which I didn't experience at my stabilized dose). Like your doc said, 2.5 for life would be fine. What confuses me the most is that it seems as though benzos never helped anyone on this board, yet they were taken, in many cases because doctors prescribed them. There must have been some condition to treat in the first place, right? Rather than poison, I would say they are an imperfect tool due to tolerance (and for many, side effects).

Going to go see my doctor next Friday and if it's been 9 weeks without improvement, I'm going to ask if I can go up to 3 (which would still be a 0.5 cut from 3.5).

 

For your case, 2.5 mg of Valium, isn't that equivalent to a little over 0.1mg of clonazepam? If so, I'd say stick it out, you are almost there. People dry cut off of clonazepam and have a tough time. I think in a way you're lucky that you're on the Valium path since you can make smaller cuts. If you don't want to hold too long, just come off gradually. I feel like nobody on clon is able to smoothly cut right at the bottom without all sorts of contraptions for weighing powder and all that stuff.

 

When you said your doc said you'd be ok, isn't that contradicting the point that you DON'T feel ok right now at 2.5? What if you simply need more? Guess that's back to my original point -- how does one know if getting off completely will make one better (underlying condition gone or not?)