opinions about work and school while going through benzo withdrawal

[[jj...]]

I thought maybe I would get more posts in this section, so I am reposting something I already wrote.  I just found out that I got into a program for school this Sept (2012)  So far, my benzo withdrawal experience has been manageable! (Knock on wood).  I am asking people what I should do.  As I am tapering at a rate of .125 every 2 weeks, I will be down to 1mg or below by September.  I cannot afford to have bad withdrawal and be back at school, because I am a nurse, and I will be giving injections, taking blood, making decisions about other's health! 

 

Should I continue to apply for disability, as so many coming off clonazepam have so much trouble functioning or should I go ahead and accept the offer of admission for school?  If I am having nasty withdrawal at this time, and I make some error while on placement, I could put my nursing license in jeopardy!  I can't think of the worst case scenario (bed ridden), but I have to have a plan b, should the school thing be too hard for me to do by this coming fall!

 

Thanks for anyone's feedback!

[[...]]

How soon do you need to make your decision to accept the offer or not?

I don't think anyone can answer this question for you.  No one knows what the future holds.

I'm sorry you have such a difficult decision to make.

 

[[Ca...]]

Are you still at 2.75? Have you figured out how low you'll be when you have to start? Would the acceptance wait a semester or 2? Just thinking of all the people here who get low on the K and then have real problems...

[[jj...]]

I will be down to 1 mg by September when school starts.  I don't know if they would let me defer.  But, I could not wait one semester, because the second semester is the placement after doing a full course load the first semester.  So, if I made a deferral, it would have to be to wait until September 2013!  If they would let me do that!

 

This really sucks.  Again, I don't want to dwell on the negative.  But I may be one of those people who does not get such bad withdrawals that I can't function.  I am already down from 6mg, and have managed!  So, I have to keep going!

[[...]]

Do you think deferring until the following year would relief some of the stress about the unknown you're experiencing now?

If this is an option for you it would allow you time to focus on finishing your taper and healing.

[[jj...]]

I don't know if they will let me defer, but I could probably check it out.  Because I am doing well right now, I don't know what I could say to them to let me defer though.  I'm sure my doctor could write something up, but because this is medication withdrawal, and it is the Nursing Profession, they may not look upon this too favorably.  Maybe they don't need to know the details? Maybe there is not an option to defer.  In any case, I will have to figure it out.  Thanks for your replies.

 

I also have been applying to jobs, and heard from the hiring manager at one of the jobs, who said he would be in touch.  That would give me another option to consider. However,  I already have an employment gap that is explained due to illness.  If I get sick and cannot work, they would probably be pretty pissed!

[[In...]]

I'd get going on the titration thing. You can really slow it down and those pills are hard to cut. It will give you way more control over your taper as you go lower.

 

If you start now or soon, you can figure out the best way to titrate (water, milk, baby food) as there seems to be some ongoing discussion of the best medium to use. Benzos don't easily go into solute, but I hear K can be somewhat more temperamental.

 

That's my recommendation.  I think you might have to do it anyway, so best to get started. Then you can have that accomplished and definitely go to school and relax.

 

Intend

[[jj...]]

Where should I titrate from.  Start at 2.675 mgs?  Also, if I go down by 1ml per day it ends up being at the same rate I think as dry cutting the k. Because that is still such a large dose, (2.675) I guess after reading so many titrating schedules, people seem to be titrating below 1 mg.  I read about doses like 0.075mg. Maybe I should post in the titrating section and get feedback?

[[In...]]

JJ,

 

I was on my Ipad when I saw your response.  I had all kinds of trouble trying to answer it cause I had to switch between the sections on the keyboard.  I came down to my computer to answer you and it looks like youre already working on the titration in that section.  Fast work and a good idea.

 

Intend

[[Wi...]]

JJ,

 

You said you are considering work/school and trying to determine if it's possible while tapering or whether you should hold off until your taper is done. 

 

Take this for what it's worth, but this is what I think...

 

You said you are tapering 0.125 and your sig line says you are at 2.75.  That means right now you are tapering approximately 5% every two weeks, which is a good rate for you if it's allowing you to a relatively stable taper.  It sounds however that you are planning to taper the same amount until you reach 1 mg.  That means by the time you reach 1 mg you will be tapering 12.5% every two weeks, which could possibly substantially change your stability and the managability of the taper.

 

I was wondering, although it will extend your taper, if you would consider tapering by percentages and not a set amount.  For me I cut approximatly 6% every two weeks.  I tried higher percentages and found that I was unable to function the closer to 10% I got.  I don't want to project, but it's possible if you continue at the rate you are going, you may not be able to maintain the stability you currently have. 

 

I have worked throughout my taper and although it's not been the easiest thing I've ever done, I think it's not a bad thing, if it's at all possible to keep your life as normalized as possible and going as best you can through the taper.  In my mind the choice was to either keep the taper slow and steady and try to keep my life going or speed it up, get off the drug but lose my stability for a time.

 

This really is a marathon and if you can go slow and steady and have a relatively stable taper I think work/school is, while not easy, certainly feesible.  This taper is taking WAY longer than I ever expected or wanted.  If I could be off yesterday it wouldn't be too soon.  However, I also know for me, to increase the speed of this will make me disfunctional and I have no assurances as to when I will be well enough to do anything.  I could speed up the taper and get off the drug, but again, if that means it will take me another 6 months or year or longer to be functional again, it's not worth it to me.  So my decision was, again, to go slow, extend the taper by several months and as a result, I have been able to maintain employment.

 

I feel like I'm rambling, but when i read your post it seems like you have some really positive options in front of you and because i know how long this drug takes either to taper or to heal from, I just wanted to say if you can think that you are in for the long haul, I think you can achieve what you want if you take this really slowly, even if takes longer than you want it to.  Getting off the drug, all by itself, is no guarantee that you will be well immediately after.  Taking time off now to get off the drug faster, so that going forward, you can then go on with your life, is a very real risk in that none of us know how long it takes to be well.  I know it's corney, but oh so true, slow and steady wins the race.

 

Sorry for rambling lol

 

WWWI

 

 

[[jj...]]

Thanks WiseWoman!  Sorry, but how would I calculate tapering at 6% every two weeks at my current dose of 2.75?  I am going to go forward and dry cut to 2.625 this Saturday.  Then, I could change it right away, in terms of how I continue to cut from the dose of 2.625mg.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

[[Wi...]]

Hi jj,

 

The best way to cut accurately is by getting liquid K from a compounding pharmacy.  Barring that, there is mixing your own.  I currently use liquid valium, and am not very good at the do-it-yourself mixing.  But there are some very knowledgable people in the titration area who should be able to help with that.

 

Actually my math was off and .125 is actually about 4.5% of 2.75.  However when you get to around 2 mg you will be at about 6%.  Below is a schedule based on both 6%, 5% and 4.5%. You may need to adjust while you go, so I didn't go all the way to 0.  This is just to give you a general idea.

 

6%

K Dose Cut

2.625 0.158

2.468 0.148

2.319 0.139

2.18 0.131

2.049 0.123

1.926 0.116

1.811 0.109

1.702 0.102

1.6 0.096

1.504 0.09

1.414 0.085

1.329 0.08

1.249 0.075

1.174 0.07

1.104 0.066

1.038 0.062

0.975 0.059

0.917 0.055

0.862 0.052

0.81 0.049

0.762 0.046

0.716 0.043

0.673 0.04

0.633 0.038

0.595 0.036

0.559 0.034

0.525 0.032

 

5%

K Dose Cut

2.625 0.131

2.494 0.125

2.369 0.118

2.251 0.113

2.138 0.107

2.031 0.102

1.93 0.096

1.833 0.092

1.741 0.087

1.654 0.083

1.572 0.079

1.493 0.075

1.418 0.071

1.348 0.067

1.28 0.064

1.216 0.061

1.155 0.058

1.098 0.055

1.043 0.052

0.991 0.05

0.941 0.047

0.894 0.045

0.849 0.042

0.807 0.04

0.766 0.038

0.728 0.036

0.692 0.035

 

4.50%

K Dose Cut

2.625 0.118

2.507 0.113

2.394 0.108

2.286 0.103

2.183 0.098

2.085 0.094

1.991 0.09

1.902 0.086

1.816 0.082

1.734 0.078

1.656 0.075

1.582 0.071

1.511 0.068

1.443 0.065

1.378 0.062

1.316 0.059

1.257 0.057

1.2 0.054

1.146 0.052

1.094 0.049

1.045 0.047

0.998 0.045

0.953 0.043

0.91 0.041

0.869 0.039

0.83 0.037

0.793 0.036

 

WWWI

[[In...]]

JJ,

 

Well undoubtedly the liquid K from a pharmacy is much more reliable than anything we can put together for ourselves, even with titration.  I just read that your signature had that you have the supplies and would consider it.  I think the goals here are that you continue your life and move forward plus get off K.  So its a matter of doing both compatibly from my point of view.

 

You can most likely continute dry cutting for a while, but as WWWI points out, the percentages of cutting increase as your base dosage drops, so you have to cut smaller and smaller pieces to maintain a consistent ratio of cut to base dose.  Such is not the case with titrating or a liquid pharmaceutical suspension.

 

So as it does appear that you have some good life opportunities coming your way, the liquid K or the titrating seems to make the most sense to keep you stable and functional going forward.  I saw that you had posted in the Taper sections and I think now is a good time to look into all this. 

 

Intend

[Guest [wi...]]

As important as getting off K is to you right now, you want to be able to lead a productive life. I think your schooling is very important and understand your concerns. I have the same dilema right now but am choosing to go forward. No one can give you the right answer, it's something you have to go forth with and see on your own. I told myself that the road might be rocky but i have a lot of books and tapes for anxiety and methods I will apply. If it gets to a point where it becomes to difficult, I will hold. I will hold my dose until the semester rides out and see what online courses i can choose next time. I know here at BB that the withdrawal is very important but so is your life. How long will you be in school?

[[jj...]]

The program is 1 year in length.  The first term is a full course load, and the courses are all online.  The second semester, there is one course online and a practical placement.  Therefore, I would really have to be on my game the second semester!  This is where prospective employers would see what kind of worker I am, and how well I do my job. 

 

I have worked in this type of placement before, so I know what to expect.  But, the times when I was working in these places, I was not going through benzo withdrawal.

 

Again, really appreciate everyone's feedback!

[[Wi...]]

Both Intend and Wicked make excellent points both the sensiblity of slow tapering and as important, keeping the option of holding, available at all times throughout this process.

[[jj...]]

Sorry again, how do you reduce the dose at 6% from 2.625 to 2.498?  In other words what equipment would you need to make this dose calculation?  I might take others up on their suggestions and get the pharmacy to compound the dose.

 

Also, how long do you stay at each cut? Staying at each cut for 2 weeks, seems like a long time, but maybe that is the point.

 

Thanks again for all of your help!

[Guest [wi...]]

The program is 1 year in length.  The first term is a full course load, and the courses are all online.  The second semester, there is one course online and a practical placement.  Therefore, I would really have to be on my game the second semester!  This is where prospective employers would see what kind of worker I am, and how well I do my job. 

 

I have worked in this type of placement before, so I know what to expect.  But, the times when I was working in these places, I was not going through benzo withdrawal.

 

Again, really appreciate everyone's feedback!

 

Too bad it wasn't reversed, huh! That would make things easier. Trust me I know all too well what you're contemplating. Yours is probably more important as it's what will be your life for the rest of it and mine is just going to school in general. I say just go slow, really. That's all you can do. What were you prescribed these for initially? I'll read your sig.

[[Wi...]]

Sorry again, how do you reduce the dose at 6% from 2.625 to 2.498?  In other words what equipment would you need to make this dose calculation?  I might take others up on their suggestions and get the pharmacy to compound the dose.

 

Also, how long do you stay at each cut? Staying at each cut for 2 weeks, seems like a long time, but maybe that is the point.

 

Thanks again for all of your help!

Not to complicate this more than it already is but while I average 6% cuts every two weeks I actually cut 3% every week for what that's worth.  The benefit is that this for me this is a smoother way to go as the drop is less and therefore so are the side effects.  The negative is that my s/x seem to hit more intensly between days 4-8, and since I cut on day seven there are usually some s/x hanging around.  But since the s/x don't hit as intensly days 1-3, it kind of balances out (if that makes any sense)

 

As far as how, the smallest syringe that I have seen is a 1ml.  I actually didn't think about that for you since I'm on valium and the increments are larger.  The one I use has .1 increments and within those has markings every .02 increment.  I get them from the pharmacist (for free) when I pick up the liquid. If they aren't free, they are certainly cheap.  You may have to round up or down to the nearest .02 increment unless you can find a smaller incremental syringe.  It looks like this.  http://www.google.com/imgres?q=1+ml+syringe&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1280&bih=846&tbm=isch&tbnid=HdRYRyZJ7NSODM:&imgrefurl=http://www.forgettingthepill.com/products/1-ml-oral-syringe-with-dosage-korc-item-67490&docid=w63pNfnMf-mtvM&imgurl=http://www.forgettingthepill.com/sc_images/products/677_image.jpg&w=650&h=699&ei=mDhFT-LSC8v3sQLN0rnEDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=908&vpy=495&dur=31&hovh=233&hovw=216&tx=103&ty=226&sig=116071178545378313402&page=5&tbnh=166&tbnw=155&start=107&ndsp=30&ved=0CNIEEK0DMHs

 

For your purposes, if you are having them compound this (or doing it yourself), I think (but do not know) they can increase (if you ask) the suspension or liquid so 1 mg won't equal 1 ml, but, for example 1 mg = 5 ml, so that the increments are bigger and therefore you can be more accurate.  And obviously, that would change the math on the cuts.

[[In...]]

JJ,

 

As WWWI has in her table, 6% off 2.625 is .1575 which is rounded up to .158. Getting this from a dry cut is probably difficult. If you dry cut .125 from your 2.625 at your next cut, that is @4.8% which is lower than 6%.

 

The overall point here is that a tapering rate can be "customized" to be as tolerable as possible for you. And holding at a comfortable dose for awhile is also part of this.

 

Actually, as these benzos have had so much control over lives, it's good to realize that we have some control also. Also most people seem to have more issues with this tapering as they drop lower I would think because the cut to base dosage ratio aspect isn't always taken into account.

 

This is why I would familiarize myself with titrating/liquid suspension at this point. Then you'll be "well schooled" before school.

 

Intend

[[jj...]]

I was put on clonazepam back in year 2000, while in nursing school and working 12 hour shifts.  I have situational anxiety and insomnia.  Over the years, the anxiety kept getting worse and I got depression. But I kept going back to the doctors up until 2010 and they kept upping my dose of clonazepam and trying me on several different anti depressants.  What a mess!  I can't believe I am trying to get my life back while trying to get off these darn pills. 

 

Then I have to worry about the remeron and the trazadone!  I won't think about that right now though. 

Thanks again for all of your support.

xoxo

[[In...]]

JJ,

 

It can definitely feel like a mess.  Take it one drug at a time.  Trazadone is an older anti-depressant given a lot now for sleep issue.  Remeron is also an anti-depressant.  I dont know a lot about it, but my doc said she Rxes it under certain criteria which i dont know much about.  But she did tell me that it works well with people who are underweight and not eating and dont want to eat.  There are probably other criteria here also.  Im not a psychiatrist, but I do work with a lot of meds.  Most of the clients I work with are already on some kind of A/D, but Ive had no experience with Remeron.  Buts it definitely out there and actively being used.  I wouldnt get all concerned about it right now.

 

My husband has been taking Trazadone for many years due to head injury.  Part of the injury involved his brains inability to "stop firing" and he was awake 24/7 in the beginning.  It is mainly to help him sleep.  This med is very widely Rxed for sleep issues and usually PRN.  I just would not get all worked up about either Trazadone or Remeron right now.  You can deal with those later for sure.  In fact, you could probably deal with you klonpin later also since you have tapered down so much.

 

I think it all comes down to how you feel with this K.  If you are having some issues, personally and medically, you probably should stay with it and continue the taper.  If you think this will interfere with your new school program and there are not other issues, you could maybe put it off till after that year is over.  Just remember, you are in charge of yourself here with this medication, you have done super well to get where you are, and if you go lower, youll just need to take that cut to base ratio into account.  But, your right; lots of decisions.  Just don't get sidetracked by the anti-depressant one.

 

Intend

[[Wi...]]

jj,

 

For what it's worth I was put on Remeron (15 mg) after I c/o'd to valium because I could no longer sleep.  After a couple of months I went off with minimal issue, but I did notice that the w/d symptoms were more intense.  I was off for several months and recently went back on to 7.5 mg.  My sleep has returned and it seems to temper some of the s/x.  I intend to remain on the remeron for the duration of the taper and for a period of time after.  It seems for many that remeron can temper some of the s/x of w/d.  When it's removed, those s/x that are being suppressed, appear. 

 

Since Remeron doesn't touch the gaba receptors and since I expect I will still experience some degree of s/x after I complete the taper, I'm going to stay on for as long as I'm still aware of symptoms.  Once most of them disappate I intend to "test the waters" to determine when to finally w/d off the Remeron.

 

WWWI

[[ja...]]

jj..

 

Hello I think its wonderful that your not experienceing to much w/d sxs.

IMO I say Go live life ..Enjoy everyday.And dont look into the future as if you need to put ur most important plans on hold.You may never have any sxs.You may feel great the whole time. Why even put in ur mind that Doom is in your future. You may be so lucky and happy during the whole time you taper, Thats scary to make yourself think you may need disability. It may never happen. Im a huge believer in Possitive thinking .I hope you continue to live your life everyday to the fullest. It would be so wonderful if you did go to school in the fall and continue liveing out your dreams.

Best of luck to you and I hope you continue to feel good  and w/d continues to be manageable

 

~Jenny

[[jj...]]

Thanks jaso, you are so nice!  Yes, one has to keep in mind that those on this board are suffering. And that there are those who are not suffering who are not posting here.  They do exsist, as is mentioned in several benzo related books.  Bliss Johns even mentions a few people who had been long term users who had few problems getting off!  So, it's best not to dwell  on the negative.

 

Thanks again everyone, for all your input. For those of you off congrats and I hope you keep on healing, and for those still tapering, I wish for you that it gets better every day!

Hugs xoxo