Zolpidem to Valium

[[Sf...]]

I was wondering if anyone has switched to Valium to taper zolpidem as it has such a short half life.. ty

[[Pa...]]

Hello @[Sf...], welcome to BenzoBuddies,

Yes, we have members who have crossed from zolpidem to Valium, although most will taper from it directly, but you're right, that short half life can be miserable.  Professor Ashton puts the equivalency at about 2 to 1, so 20 mgs of zolpidem is roughly equivalent to 10 mgs Valium.

I quit both Klonopin and Ambien and for me, the Ambien was much easier to recover from, well, easy isn't the right word, lets just say I found Klonopin cessation and recovery much more painful.

How long have you been taking zolpidem and what dose?  Maybe we can help you figure out a taper plan.  We're glad you're here, I hope we can help.

@[Pa...]

[[Sf...]]

I was on 5 mg for over a year but I recently increased it to 7.5 mg because of tolerance. I’m going to see my dr tomorrow and wanted to see if he’d be willing to prescribe me any diazepam to help with the taper.

[[Pa...]]

Are you familiar with the Ashton method for substituting Valium, you know it's done in stages?  I just wanted to make sure you know to add in the Valium as you're withdrawing the zolpidem, we wouldn't want you to make the cross too rapidly. 

@[Sf...], If your doctor won't prescribe Valium, which many of them won't, we can help you taper directly.

[[Sf...]]

I am familiar with it but wasn’t aware it’s done in stages. What are the stages? I’m just really nervous about the whole thing.  I’m not even stable on the 7.5.  I’m going to ask to go upto 10.  Does ambien need to build up in your system or does it automatically go by how much you have taken that night? Thank you btw for answering me. I appreciate it

[[Pa...]]

@[Sf...], Ambien is short acting, meaning you take it, then a few hours later, its gone, this is because the short half life was designed specifically to let you sleep for 8 hours, then leave your system.  The trouble is, once we grow tolerant to it, our sleep duration is less and less and for many of us, the interdose withdrawals the next day are miserable.

This  example schedule from the Ashton manual shows a two week crossover to allow time for the Valium to build while withdrawing Zopiclone, another z-drug.  benzo.org.uk : Benzodiazepines: How They Work & How to Withdraw, Prof C H Ashton DM, FRCP, 2002

I understand being nervous, when I was taking Ambien, I was terrified of not sleeping, this medication makes us fear a lot, its very similar to benzodiazepines in that regard.  But once I got off of it, I realized that a night or two without sleep was so much better than the constant anxiety, inner trembling, fear and dark thoughts the zolpidem gave me.

 

 

 

[[Sf...]]

I have the anxiety and fear you’re talking about now. It’s so scary because I quit vaping 3 weeks ago and I thought it was the anxiety from that but I think it’s from maybe both.  I’m going to talk to my dr about all of it and hope he doesn’t make me go into the day program because I’m probably going to cry and not make sense.  Do you think the diazepam would stabilize me enough to do this?

[[Pa...]]

@[Sf...], please try to avoid going into any program that will force you to taper at a rate that's not comfortable for you, having the freedom to taper at rate that keeps you functional is important.

The anxiety and fear you mention is a definite characteristic of zolpidem, and once I stopped it, it left.  I would imagine that if you did suffer anxiety from vaping, those symptoms would be gone by now.

The Valium will most likely stabilize you but my recommendation is to taper directly from the zolpidem.  Valium can eliminate interdose withdrawal but it can come with its own set of side effects, like depression and sedation.  But of course, we'll support whatever method you feel most comfortable choosing. 

[[Sf...]]

I am going to taper right from the Zolpidem, I had updosed to 7.5 but only for 3 days so I went back down to 5.. it’s weird because today was a good day for me, yesterday I had that inner restlessness and oh man I didn’t know what to do with myself,,I’ll hold here for a couple days but I was wondering how to cut the 5 mg seeing when I cut it I can get basically 4 pieces and if I cut it more it will be dust

[[Pa...]]

It sounds like going back down in dose was helpful, wouldn't it be wonderful if the same thing happened when you reduce again? 

I'm hoping you can taper with those 4 pieces @[Sf...], because I've seen members able to taper z-drugs faster than pure benzo's, well, all except for zopiclone, that one seems to be worse than zolpidem/Ambien.  If you feel awful symptoms from cutting the tablet into quarters, we can advise you about crushing the tablet and weighing it on a jewelers scale or you could shave the pill and put them into little piles.  Or, there is liquid titration where you put your dose into a liquid.  But, as I mentioned, I'm hoping you can taper using the quarters. 

It will be important to keep track of your symptoms, if this is too rapid then we'll need to regroup.  But, I'm encouraged by your response to going back down in dose.  

[[Sf...]]

I appreciate all your feedback, I did buy a pill cutter from Amazon so hopefully it will give me better cuts.  Unfortunately my dr or his supervisor didn’t believe it was the ambien but over all the symptoms I’ve had I know it is. When should I feel any withdrawal seeing the half life is so short? I’ve had interdose withdrawals for a while and didn’t even know so the only place to go is down now 

[[Sf...]]

How long should I hold here? Do you think it’s possible to cut 1/2 mg every 10 days.. I don’t know if I can get real fancy with the scale or liquid titration 

[[Pa...]]

@[Sf...], I'm confident you're describing withdrawal symptoms, they sound just like mine.  

Its tough to say how long to wait between reductions, I worked with another member who was going to taper slowly but halfway through decided to quit cold turkey and it worked for them.  Others feel more comfortable tapering slowly but I've seen quite a few members taper off much faster than true benzo's.

No matter how you do it, you're going to face insomnia so how quickly you taper will probably depend on the symptoms you face each day.  You're going to feel the effects of these reductions quickly, you basically withdraw from this drug every day so it will be more of the same.  

[[Sf...]]

Last night I only slept 3 hours and have anxiety this morning.  Even though I was only at the 7.5 for three days, would it be wise to wait at least 5 days to lower again?  Is there somewhere else I can find someone’s taper history from Zolpidem so I can kind of figure out what I’m doing, I’m sure there is I just don’t know where to look

[[Pa...]]

Ugh, @[Sf...], I remember those nights at the end of my use, that was all I could get too.  @[or...] tapered Ambien, here is her history. 

oregonkatz - BenzoBuddies - Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Support

[[Sf...]]

Thank you

[[or...]]

@[Sf...] yes indeed I did taper my Ambien as the link Pamster has provided attests. I did not find it half as challenging or uncomfortable as tapering valium, which was awful. So, fwiw, that's what I did. Unscientific  but it worked. Tapering Ambien imo  is much "easier" on your system than tapering valium/ativan etc. And of course, you need to be prepared for the insomnia that might follow (if indeed your Ambien is still helpling with sleep). Best to you,

Katz

[[Sf...]]

Thank you, I checked out your story and gives me hope.  I’m just ready for it to be gone.  I’m already experiencing insomnia so there would be no point in staying on it besides the interdose withdrawals are miserable

[[Pa...]]

I found this in the Ashton manual, even she recommended tapering from the z-drugs faster.

"In my experience, the only exception to the general rule of slow reduction is triazolam (Halcion). This benzodiazepine is eliminated so quickly (half-life 2 hours) that you are practically withdrawn each day, after a dose the night before. For this reason, triazolam can be stopped abruptly without substitution of a long-acting benzodiazepine. If withdrawal symptoms occur, you could take a short course of diazepam starting at about 10mg, decreasing the dosage as shown on Schedule 2. The same approach applies to the non-benzodiazepines zolpidem and zaleplon which both have half-lives of 2 hours."

benzo.org.uk : Benzodiazepines: How They Work & How to Withdraw, Prof C H Ashton DM, FRCP, 2002

[[Sf...]]

@[Pa...] after I made that cut back down to 5 I slept pretty well and had windows all the way until yesterday, I was a little restless but went away by early evening. I was wondering if I should wait the 10 days, it’s 6 days today? Ty

[[Pa...]]

@[Sf...], it sounds like your symptoms are letting you know its time to reduce again, and I'm thrilled to hear you slept, that's amazing!  Some members seem to be plagued with benzo like symptoms when they taper zolpidem, but others like me, and hopefully you, feel better and better as its eliminated.

Please let us know how it goes, it helps me help others to know each experience. 

[[Sf...]]

@[Pa...] I will definitely keep you updated, thank you again 

[[Sf...]]

I never even realized all the withdrawal symptoms I had already been experiencing and never knew. I would honestly take all the physical symptoms over the heavy anxiety and internal restlessness. Actually the severe dizziness that had literally made me pass out a few times is scary because I had no idea when it was going to happen, I had my second cut last night and so far extreme dizziness and anxiety today.

[[Pa...]]

How are you doing @[Sf...], if you're dealing with extreme dizziness, then you might want to slow your taper down.  I don't want you passing out! 

[[Sf...]]

@[Pa...]i feel better tonight thanks.  I had been getting those random feelings of dizziness before I started tapering. I also read it somewhere else that they also suffered with it from ambien. I cut last night. I decided to cut the 5mg into 4 and do it every 10-14 days depending on how I feel.