Day 12 of Taper - advice! New member

[[vo...]]

Hi everyone! I am new here & looking for advice, thoughts, anything you have for me during my taper  

I have been on 1mg/daily Klonopin for 1 year, and before that I was on 0.5mg for a little less than a year. Last Monday, I started my taper (what the direction of my psych). 

I did a cut to 0.875mg. I use a pill cutter and a scale to measure out my doses. I am planning on staying on this dose For 3 weeks total (so around 10 more days). From there, I will cut to 0.75mg. My psych likes to take 0.25mg cuts but I think that’s too large (from what I’ve read online). 
 

It is currently day 12 of my taper and I don’t have many W/D symptoms. I experienced some twitching last night in my leg but was able to sleep just fine. For the duration I’ve taken klonopin and the dose, would you say this taper is too fast/too slow/just right? Will my the to 0.75mg at week 3 be too fast? I’d love to hear stories or any anecdotes you may know about people tapering from 1mg klonopin use for around a year. I could use all the support I can get. Thank you all!

[Colin]

Hello @[vo...]. Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

That sounds like a reasonable taper plan to me (reductions of 0.125mg). Many (or even most doctors) will have their patients taper off far faster than this. Some patients are fine tapering off at a faster rate, but many others become very ill. I think being a bit cautious, at least while testing the water, is a sensible approach.

The correct taper rate is generally the fastest rate which you can reasonably tolerate. Outside of exceptional circumstances, the important thing is to complete the taper, not the rate at which you accomplish it. So, your planned rate is a good starting point I think. But we generally suggest a flexible approach, based upon withdrawal symptoms.

The chances are that you will be fine.

[[vo...]]

3 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

Hello @[vo...]. Welcome to BenzoBuddies.

That sounds like a reasonable taper plan to me (reductions of 0.125mg). Many (or even most doctors) will have their patients taper off far faster than this. Some patients are fine tapering off at a faster rate, but many others become very ill. I think being a bit cautious, at least while testing the water, is a sensible approach.

The correct taper rate is generally the fastest rate which you can reasonably tolerate. Outside of exceptional circumstances, the important thing is to complete the taper, not the rate at which you accomplish it. So, your planned rate is a good starting point I think. But we generally suggest a flexible approach, based upon withdrawal symptoms.

The chances are that you will be fine.

Thank you for this! My doctor told me that at my dose & duration and doing a slow-ish taper, I should be just fine with pretty minimal / not too severe W/D symptoms. I’m hoping that’s the case! When I start to get to lower doses, would you recommend a compound pharmacy? Or water suspension (I’ve seen this term thrown around on reddit?) I don’t think i will need to go super super low, but cutting a pill & weighing can only get you so far. Haha.

[Colin]

9 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

Thank you for this! My doctor told me that at my dose & duration and doing a slow-ish taper, I should be just fine with pretty minimal / not too severe W/D symptoms. I’m hoping that’s the case! When I start to get to lower doses, would you recommend a compound pharmacy? Or water suspension (I’ve seen this term thrown around on reddit?) I don’t think i will need to go super super low, but cutting a pill & weighing can only get you so far. Haha.

For most people, it is unnecessary. You are already making smaller cuts than doctors typically direct (and those larger reductions clearly work for some, else doctors would not have patients taper off at those rates).

When you get to lower doses, you might find that you need a little longer between cuts - or not. There is a good chance that you will be able to continue at your present taper rate. But as I suggested before, take a flexible approach. If you need to make smaller reductions, you already have the tools in place to achieve this. Try not to assume the worst when the much greater likelihood is that you will be fine.

[[vo...]]

3 minutes ago, [[C...] said:

For most people, it is unnecessary. You are already making smaller cuts than doctors typically direct (and those larger reductions clearly work for some, else doctors would not have patients taper off at those rates).

When you get to lower doses, you might find that you need a little longer between cuts - or not. There is a good chance that you will be able to continue at your present taper rate. But as I suggested before, take a flexible approach. If you need to make smaller reductions, you already have the tools in place to achieve this. Try not to assume the worst when the much greater likelihood is that you will be fine.

Again, thanks for your reply. This is super helpful — I think I get caught up often thinking 100% of people have terrible experiences getting off of benzos when in reality, that just isn’t the case. I’m glad I found this forum, but I truly think reading some of these posts makes me a little more anxious about the taper even though I’ve had no issues thus far. 

[[Ro...]]

7 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

Thank you for this! My doctor told me that at my dose & duration and doing a slow-ish taper, I should be just fine with pretty minimal / not too severe W/D symptoms. I’m hoping that’s the case! When I start to get to lower doses, would you recommend a compound pharmacy? Or water suspension (I’ve seen this term thrown around on reddit?) I don’t think i will need to go super super low, but cutting a pill & weighing can only get you so far. Haha.

Hi @[vo...],

Doctors seem to favor that 25% reduction per cut plan, but I think your slower plan is wiser.  Typically, we try to keep reductions to 5 - 10% of the current dosage and then hold for 2 - 4 weeks.  It looks like your reductions have been close to that (around 12%).  It's important to let your symptoms be your guide as to pace.  There's nothing wrong in being flexible and making changes during a benzo taper.  Your 12% every 3 weeks is reasonable and could carry you through much of your taper; however,  taperers often find they have to slow down as they get to the lower end of the dosage.

You're using a pill cutter and then weighing your reduced tablets.  Are you able to achieve precise measurements with relative ease?  I ask because for my taper, I often used a metal file to make the finishing reductions.

I also tapered 1 mg of Clonazepam.  But I had taken it for almost 7 years and tapered off in 19 months.  If interested, you can view my taper schedule on my About Me tab of my Profile page.

Good luck with your taper.

[Colin]

6 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

Again, thanks for your reply. This is super helpful — I think I get caught up often thinking 100% of people have terrible experiences getting off of benzos when in reality, that just isn’t the case. I’m glad I found this forum, but I truly think reading some of these posts makes me a little more anxious about the taper even though I’ve had no issues thus far. 

The greater majority of members join up after they have already experienced problems. So, we are a self-selecting group which tends attract those who experience greater difficulties. But for people like you, who have not yet experienced heightened problems, they should hope for the better because that's the more likely path for them.

[[vo...]]

45 minutes ago, [[R...] said:

Hi @[vo...],

Doctors seem to favor that 25% reduction per cut plan, but I think your slower plan is wiser.  Typically, we try to keep reductions to 5 - 10% of the current dosage and then hold for 2 - 4 weeks.  It looks like your reductions have been close to that (around 12%).  It's important to let your symptoms be your guide as to pace.  There's nothing wrong in being flexible and making changes during a benzo taper.  Your 12% every 3 weeks is reasonable and could carry you through much of your taper; however,  taperers often find they have to slow down as they get to the lower end of the dosage.

You're using a pill cutter and then weighing your reduced tablets.  Are you able to achieve precise measurements with relative ease?  I ask because for my taper, I often used a metal file to make the finishing reductions.

I also tapered 1 mg of Clonazepam.  But I had taken it for almost 7 years and tapered off in 19 months.  If interested, you can view my taper schedule on my About Me tab of my Profile page.

Good luck with your taper.

Thank you for your response  I’ve been able to get accurate to the thousandth, but right now by weight my pill should be .280g or .279g — there are some days I’ve only been able to get .278 or .281 but I would say I’ve been able to get fairly accurate. Would you say that a 19 month taper for me would be on the way longer end? My psych seems to think I should be able to kick it in 4-5 months. 

[Colin]

1 hour ago, [[v...] said:

Thank you for your response  I’ve been able to get accurate to the thousandth, but right now by weight my pill should be .280g or .279g — there are some days I’ve only been able to get .278 or .281 but I would say I’ve been able to get fairly accurate. Would you say that a 19 month taper for me would be on the way longer end? My psych seems to think I should be able to kick it in 4-5 months. 

Again, unless personal experience informs you otherwise, you should assume the best. Many (most, probably) can taper off at the rate devised by your doctor - we just do not hear from them very often since they do not generally require our assistance.

[[Ro...]]

51 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

Thank you for your response  I’ve been able to get accurate to the thousandth, but right now by weight my pill should be .280g or .279g — there are some days I’ve only been able to get .278 or .281 but I would say I’ve been able to get fairly accurate. Would you say that a 19 month taper for me would be on the way longer end? My psych seems to think I should be able to kick it in 4-5 months. 

It's best not to plan rigid timelines.  Personally, I wouldn't have chanced trying to get off the med in 4 - 5 months, even though my symptoms were minimal.  Your experience could be different.

Your measurements are close enough.  I wouldn't sweat it trying to be exact.

[Colin]

On 01/11/2024 at 21:09, [[R...] said:

Your measurements are close enough.  I wouldn't sweat it trying to be exact.

Yep - small variations generally do not matter. And in any case, the true dose of individual tablets vary from the stated dose. Within reasonable limits, this is OK.

[[Tr...]]

Hi @[vo...], welcome to BenzoBuddies where you can find lots of information and advice on how to carry out a smooth taper. I was glad to read that you are not experiencing serious problems at the start of your taper. It is wise of you to wait for 3 weeks after the cut, because Klonopin has a medium half life and the serious withdrawal sxs might appear around the 12th to 14th day after the cut, like what happened in my case. If you have am and pm doses, it is advisable to taper them simultaneously in order to avoid interdose withdrawal.

I would like to suggest a must-read imho for everyone who is tapering - The Maudsley Deprescribing Guidelines: Antidepressants, Benzodiazepines, etc., specifically the chapter about tapering off  Clonazepam: https://www.amazon.com/Maudsley-Guidelines-prescribing-Prescribing/dp/111982298X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=14P4V2OXIOIEM&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.JHRtfLNPzDT1EMU78Y52NZg61RGit7iolxAM-zOjD_XGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps._sZTHjdOCFS_jotbhLuv1TFxLfkilKc6THW00TAJXVY&dib_tag=se&keywords=The+Maudsley+Deprescribing+Guidelines%3A&qid=1730125858&sprefix=the+maudsley+deprescribing+guidelines+%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-1 

Feel free to check the History and About info of my profile, where you might find additional useful information. 

Do not hesitate to ask questions or search the site with key words for more imformation.

I hope that your taper will be smooth and fast!

Edited November 1, 2024 by [Tr...]

[[vo...]]

3 hours ago, [[R...] said:

It's best not to plan rigid timelines.  Personally, I wouldn't have chanced trying to get off the med in 4 - 5 months, even though my symptoms were minimal.  Your experience could be different.

Your measurements are close enough.  I wouldn't sweat it trying to be exact.

Thanks! Trying not to focus too much on the timeline or I’ll stress myself out. Was there something that made you not want to chance getting off in 4-5 months? Was it the duration you were on the med? If I’m having minimal symptoms (from what I’ve been told) I should listen to my body and proceed accordingly regarding speed of my taper. 

[[vo...]]

3 hours ago, [[C...] said:

Yep - small variations generally do not matter. And in any case, the trues dose on individual tablets vary from the stated dose. Within reasonable limits, this is OK.

From your time on this forum (I see you’re a founder!) have you seen people taper in a relatively short amount of time (a few months) and it be successful? I’m finding myself on this forum because I am a chronic over thinker, not because I’m struggling with my taper right now. 

[[Ro...]]

18 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

Thanks! Trying not to focus too much on the timeline or I’ll stress myself out. Was there something that made you not want to chance getting off in 4-5 months? Was it the duration you were on the med? If I’m having minimal symptoms (from what I’ve been told) I should listen to my body and proceed accordingly regarding speed of my taper. 

Before my taper, I had taken Clonazepam for 6 1/2 years, so I wasn't a short-term user.  I also knew from the Ashton manual and this site that the recommended reduction was 5 - 10% of the current dose and the hold time was a matter of weeks.  I followed what I felt were prudent guidelines as to pace of taper.

I wasn't in a hurry to eliminate the med and still feel that going too slow is better than going too fast.

Yes, listening to your body during this journey is key.

[Colin]

15 hours ago, [[v...] said:

From your time on this forum (I see you’re a founder!) have you seen people taper in a relatively short amount of time (a few months) and it be successful? I’m finding myself on this forum because I am a chronic over thinker, not because I’m struggling with my taper right now. 

Yes. There are many such members. I would say there are now probably more such members than in the past.

Until more recent years, the problems associated with benzodiazepines were barely acknowledged. So we tended to attract (almost exclusively) those who were already experiencing very pronounced difficulties and were seeking answers and solutions.

But now that the problem is more widely recognised, we have more members who join us (preemptively) because they are aware of potential problems and are seeking out information in advance. As a result, we skew a little less towards those already experiencing severe withdrawal effects; we now have a somewhat broader intake of members.

I would not wish to overstate it, but that's my observation.

[[vo...]]

Back again! I believe I’m dropping to 0.75mg tomorrow after being at 0.875mg for 2 weeks with no symptoms. I have a few questions:

- I know symptoms from this cut won’t happen immediately, but if/when they do, how long do they typically last during each cut? 
- If the symptoms are too bad, is it okay to go back up to 0.875 to stabilize? And if I go back up, how long do I need to stay before I drop again? 

 

(i know i should probably get off of this forum because im not having any issues, but just wanting advice for when i make the cut. a bit nervous!)

Edited November 3, 2024 by [vo...]

[[Ro...]]

1 hour ago, [[v...] said:

Back again! I believe I’m dropping to 0.75mg tomorrow after being at 0.875mg for 2 weeks with no symptoms. I have a few questions:

- I know symptoms from this cut won’t happen immediately, but if/when they do, how long do they typically last during each cut? 
- If the symptoms are too bad, is it okay to go back up to 0.875 to stabilize? And if I go back up, how long do I need to stay before I drop again? 

(i know i should probably get off of this forum because im not having any issues, but just wanting advice for when i make the cut. a bit nervous!)

The only real pattern I've heard about here and experienced myself with clonazepam is that symptoms tend to strike between 3 and 5 days following a cut.  But I've heard of taperers running into symptoms as late as 10 - 14 days following a cut.  Maybe others can chime in regarding how long they last.  I haven't noticed a pattern with that.

You can updose to stabilize, although I'd do that as a last resort after a hold.  I'd stay at the higher dose until you feel stable enough--symptoms have calmed down at least a bit and you are functional but perhaps uncomfortable.  No set pattern I've seen as far as number of days before you resume your taper.  Of course an updose doesn't guarantee stabilization, unfortunately.

Hope this helps in some way.

[[Tr...]]

Hi @[vo...], for me the sxs start at different days. Sore muscles and fatigue start at day 3-4, anxiety increases at day 7-8 and faster heart rate appears at day 10-11. Sore muscles and faster heart rate disappear within 2-3 days, anxiety decreases within 4-5 days, but stays almost all the time for a couple of hours a day, fatigue improves within 2-3 days, but stays all the time.

One can choose to make the next cut after three or more consequtive days of feeling functional and confident that the sxs are under control or gone.

Edited November 4, 2024 by [Tr...]

[[vo...]]

Hi everyone! Wanted to give a little taper update — I cut to 0.75mg today! I’ll update in a few days with how I feel (or not, I should probably stay off these forums, I feel like they make me anxious for no reason). Feels good being at 3/4 of my original dose! 

[[Tr...]]

Hi @[vo...], good luck with your taper!

Please keep us updated in this  thread. You don’t need to read other threads on the site. We need a lot positive stories! This will be of great help to us!

Thanks in advance!

[[Tr...]]

Hi @[vo...], 

May I ask how you are doing after your last cut to 0.75 mg? 

Many thanks in advance for your reply!

[[vo...]]

14 hours ago, [[T...] said:

Hi @[vo...], 

May I ask how you are doing after your last cut to 0.75 mg? 

Many thanks in advance for your reply!

Hi! It’s been over a week now on the 0.75mg and I’m feeling good! Very very minimal symptoms. I feel lucky. 

[[Tr...]]

Hi @[vo...], many thanks for the update! I am glad that you are feeling well and have minimal symptoms! 
 

Good luck with your taper and please, let us know from time to time how it is going! We need more positive stories here.

[[vo...]]

Hi all! Is propranolol safe to use during benzo taper? Have had some slight increased heart rate — nothing bad at all, but know that propranolol would help.