Xanax + Ambien tapering

[[al...]]

23 minutes ago, [[v...] said:

I'm sure even 10mg wouldn't help you sleep since your body is acclimated to 45mg. I don't work so I can't imagine what it would be like to work, taper and go through the withdrawal symptoms. Is your work from home schedule flexible? 

You mentioned that your doctor might do what I would call a "rapid taper" come September - do I remember that correctly? If so, it's another reason I'm hopeful you can start working on your taper independently before you meet with the doctor - at least on the xanax. And cut maybe 10% off each dose you take of the ambien? I don't know how difficult that would be for you. As I mentioned, as well as @[La...], you WILL have withdrawal symptoms regardless.

I know that when I talked to @[sh...], they still hadn't returned to work and were worried about what the symptoms would be like - if I remember correctly it wasn't too bad because work actually created the distraction they needed to keep w/d symptoms at bay. How do your symptoms feel when you're trying to work?

I literally hate my job, it is boring like hell so I guess it is also not helping. Unfortunately the symptoms feel bad independently from what I am doing. I guess that having a sense of purpose would help. Something to get up for.

[[vo...]]

10 minutes ago, [[a...] said:

I literally hate my job, it is boring like hell so I guess it is also not helping. Unfortunately the symptoms feel bad independently from what I am doing. I guess that having a sense of purpose would help. Something to get up for.

Do you have to talk and/or type most of the time? If you mostly have to talk, could you get some fidget toys to occupy your mind for distraction?

My daughter works from home, but they have to continually move their mouse or be typing on the keyboard, so if this is the type of job you have, fidget toys wouldn't help.

Edited August 26, 2024 by [vo...]

[[Pa...]]

5 hours ago, [[a...] said:

I work online from home- needed to  change my job due to panic attacks I got after I got PTSD 

I strongly advise you not to day dose the Ambien, you could be at risk for losing your job.  Day dosing will put holes in your memory, there will be times you won't be aware of what you're doing or saying until someone points out your behavior to you.  It may not be obvious to you that you're impaired but I assure you, others will notice.

 

[[vo...]]

2 hours ago, [[P...] said:

I strongly advise you not to day dose the Ambien, you could be at risk for losing your job.  Day dosing will put holes in your memory, there will be times you won't be aware of what you're doing or saying until someone points out your behavior to you.  It may not be obvious to you that you're impaired but I assure you, others will notice.

 

5 hours ago, [[a...] said:

I literally hate my job, it is boring like hell so I guess it is also not helping. Unfortunately the symptoms feel bad independently from what I am doing. I guess that having a sense of purpose would help. Something to get up for.

@[al...] @[Pa...]'s point is very valuable - how many mg of your 45mg of Ambien are you using during the day? It's something you really have to make a priority, even though the withdrawal symptoms are uncomfortable. I did the same when @[La...] was helping me taper day dosing Ambien - meaning being aware of how many mg I was using during the day in order to stop using them during the day. My question is to only try to help you, to get to the safest place possible.

Edited August 26, 2024 by [vo...]

[[vo...]]

@[al...] Do you think you can try to follow the taper advice that ladyden suggested?

[[La...]]

22 hours ago, [[a...] said:

Thank You @[La...]; I am scared like hell of the withdrawal symptoms, especially insomnia. It is hard to give my mind stress free space due to PTSD but I will do my best. Thank You for Your support. 

Everyone who has gone through coming off has concerns about sleeping. It is a normal feeling and understandably so. Yet, all before you survived it and you will too. A few things that helped me with this is 1. Have a plan to maximize your sleep. Our brains are in a fearful state due to the medications. Most of those fears are not valid. Having a plan when doing anything is a great way to keep the fears at bay which is why I highly suggest a strict sleep routine every night that is relaxing. Even if it doesn’t put you to sleep or give you much sleep, it will benefit you in staying relaxed. Sometimes near sleep can be just as refreshing for the body and mind. 
2. Make peace with where you are in your journey. You are not going to have miraculous perfect sleep or feeling immediately back to normal. Your brain has been altered and that will require some work. If you don’t sleep but 3-4 hours then be ok with that! Don’t obsess over how much sleep you get. Your brain will find a way to get the rest it needs. You will not die from getting 3 hours instead of 6-8. In other words, tell yourself that it’s no big deal because it’s not. Be an observer and not a participant when the scary thoughts come whispering. 
3. Write down your fears and reason them out. For example, why am I afraid of not sleeping? What is the worst that could happen if I don’t sleep well? Why does it matter so much? 
Most of the time, these fears are symptoms as well. I try my best to treat them as such. The same as if I am hungry or sneeze or whatever. Because it’s a body function. Your brain knows you were depending on your medication for sleep. But, guess what? The same brain knows how to do that without any pill. We were all born knowing how to sleep. Journal those fears and practice calming breathing. You might be surprised at how much sleep you will actually get when you come off. I certainly was and plenty of others were too. What you fear is the unknown. You know not sleeping well won’t kill you, right? 
4. Have a “ let’s see what happens “ mentality. Many times I had symptoms and fears that were strong. One of the benzo coaches and kind buddies on here told me to start fighting back by doing nothing. Wow I was shocked by this advice but guess what? When I was afraid to go outside for fear of falling to try to walk, I said ok let’s go outside the door and see what happens. I cleared my mind and just went a few steps outside my door. I stood there breathing calmly and looking at the trees, listening to the birds sing. What happened? Nothing bad! So the next day, when I was going outside, fears came again. Oh but this time I pulled out my weapon of “ you’re a liar! I did this yesterday and nothing happened. So, let me know when I’m in a REAL danger but thanks for the warning!” In doing this, those fears lost their steam and before I knew it I didn’t have those fears. Now others started up as I tackled doing new things that I haven’t done in years. But I fought them the same way. Baby steps to prove the fears wrong. It really will boost your confidence. 
by the way, you’re very welcome. Remember you do have some control over more than you realize. Stay positive! This is a journey on a road that have some rocks, hills and maybe muddy puddles. But this road has only a path to your goal…What do I mean? Let’s say Hwy 1 only goes to Beverly Hills ( your destination). Hwy 1 will never go to Atlanta. That’s not where it leads so it’s impossible! And it’s impossible to turn into a different road. So, I’m saying logically the only destination is healing if given time. What our dislike is that nobody can say how long it will take for each person or what your journey will be like. I just stayed focus on the fact that my road leads only to a healed new me! 

[[La...]]

22 hours ago, [[v...] said:

@[La...] She's on 

Xanax 6 mos. 1.125mg - .375 x 3 times a day

Ambien  45mg - 15mg x 3 times a night

 

This is why I thought logically it best to taper the xanax first and I felt you could weigh in about the taper based on the dosage. I realize about the problem with day dosing - I wouldn't have agreed with @[al...], except that her ambien dosage is so high. I was able to stay in control of the day dosing, although I don't know alicj's strength given that her PTSD is probably way worse than mine, and she's also working - this is a tough place for her to be in. What are your thoughts based on this?

She needs to tackle the Ambien day dosing. Start reducing it as I said earlier. A tiny bit at a time and pushing her time of taking it back. If she’s doing two day doses of 15mg, IMO I’d start with the one that’s around lunchtime. I’m not sure at what times she takes it? The fact that she’s working will have to be considered. Yes, but, symptoms are going to happen anyway. She has to decide which dose at what time is she ok with feeling a little bad. For example, if she dose at 3pm and get off at 4. Then I’d postpone that dose until after work because that’s only an hour. Hope that helps. 
btw, the point is the same as what I said to you. IMO, you want to try to get your dose back to taking it at only once a day. It will be easier to taper. That time of taking it once IMO would be easiest if it’s at night. That way there’s no dosing during the day. It gets to the point that you just have to make the decision and go with it. It’s not going to be comfortable at first…no matter what plan she choose. I’m meaning the symptoms are going to be present. 

[[La...]]

On 26/08/2024 at 09:51, [[a...] said:

I work online from home- needed to  change my job due to panic attacks I got after I got PTSD 

This is great that you work from home. Makes it easier to cope with symptoms and do your taper. 

[[vo...]]

5 hours ago, [[L...] said:

She needs to tackle the Ambien day dosing. Start reducing it as I said earlier. A tiny bit at a time and pushing her time of taking it back. If she’s doing two day doses of 15mg, IMO I’d start with the one that’s around lunchtime. I’m not sure at what times she takes it? The fact that she’s working will have to be considered. Yes, but, symptoms are going to happen anyway. She has to decide which dose at what time is she ok with feeling a little bad. For example, if she dose at 3pm and get off at 4. Then I’d postpone that dose until after work because that’s only an hour. Hope that helps. 
btw, the point is the same as what I said to you. IMO, you want to try to get your dose back to taking it at only once a day. It will be easier to taper. That time of taking it once IMO would be easiest if it’s at night. That way there’s no dosing during the day. It gets to the point that you just have to make the decision and go with it. It’s not going to be comfortable at first…no matter what plan she choose. I’m meaning the symptoms are going to be present. 

I agree with pushing back the medication. That's what you suggested I do and I followed that, as uncomfortable as it was and it did work to get me off the Ambien. I do feel alicja_k has a lot more going on than I did and is on a considerably higher dosage, so I can see why this is going to be a challenge - mind over matter I'm thinking is the only way she will be able to get through this successfully.

[[La...]]

18 hours ago, [[v...] said:

I agree with pushing back the medication. That's what you suggested I do and I followed that, as uncomfortable as it was and it did work to get me off the Ambien. I do feel alicja_k has a lot more going on than I did and is on a considerably higher dosage, so I can see why this is going to be a challenge - mind over matter I'm thinking is the only way she will be able to get through this successfully.

Yes it will be. Even though the higher dose, I feel it will work and be the best option. It worked for you so you are a witness. Mind over matter is in order as you said. She MUST accept that she will not feel good for awhile but that is temporary. There’s people who have come off higher doses and multiple medications who are healed. And you are well on your way to heal. I’m so glad I was able to help you. But YOU did the work! YOU put on your brave armor! YOU made it happen regardless of your thoughts or the circumstances! Anyone going through this has to tap into their inner strength. 
She can do this just like you, me and many others did. Question is…how bad do the person want it? Once they answer that, it’s on!

[[al...]]

On 26/08/2024 at 21:58, [[v...] said:

@[al...] @[Pa...]'s point is very valuable - how many mg of your 45mg of Ambien are you using during the day? It's something you really have to make a priority, even though the withdrawal symptoms are uncomfortable. I did the same when @[La...] was helping me taper day dosing Ambien - meaning being aware of how many mg I was using during the day in order to stop using them during the day. My question is to only try to help you, to get to the safest place possible.

Sorry for being so inactive today but I was working all day. I take Ambien only at night- 15 mg every three hours (because one dose makes mecsleep for 3 hours). However during the day I have Ambien cravings and withdrawal symptoms- Xanax was prescribed to help me with that. It doesn't. But now I consider microdosing of Ambien throughout the day and a slow taper of the 3 night doses. 

[[al...]]

Hi guys- I read your comments thoroughfully and I am ready to start tapering. I have two questions- (1) shall I taper Xanax first and the Ambien or both at the same time (2) I have a problem with cutting Ambien; Ambiens in Poland are 10 mg only, it is ease to cut them in half but impossible to cut them in quarters. Would you say it's ok to take a 10 mg pill, cut it in two 5 mg halves and then make pulver out of the 5 mg and divide it into 0,25 parts? So that instead of taking 10 mg or 5 mg I could take 7,5 mg? Can you basically eat this pulver? 

[[Pa...]]

Hi @[al...], its good to see you again and I'm glad you took the time to mentally prepare for this.  We advise tapering only one medication at a time, its too difficult to make adjustments when we don't know which drug is causing the problem. 

Both medications have short half lives, I used to think it was better to taper the z-drug last so you could use it to get some sleep while tapering the other medication but I think it depends on how you're doing on the Ambien.  How much sleep are you getting on the 10 mg, do you get more than a few hours?  This might help us figure out if you should taper that first. 

[[al...]]

Hi @[Pa...], nice to hear from You too. At the moment I have been taking 0,5 Xanax three times a day for about 7 months and 15 mg Ambien at night; I need to add additional doses of Ambien to sleep throughout the night (so at night I take 15 mg, sleep about 3-5 hours, usually 3, then 15 mg again, 3 hours, and 15 mg again, 2 hours). I sleep better on Ambien when I have an active day, which I rarely have due to PTSD, panic disorder and no access to professional psychotherapy + sedentary lifestyle due to a part time job in front of a screen). I planned to lower the Ambien dose to 12,5 mg but it would mean I have to make powder out of 5 mg and split it onto two halves. I don't know how to swallow this powder- like drink it with some water. Would that be ok? Or should I practice cutting it with razor? But let's go back to the plan- I have no idea how to go off these drugs. 

[[Pa...]]

Thanks for sharing what your sleep is like, I agree @[al...], the Ambien needs to go and I'm hopeful that when its gone, you'll actually feel better, I know I did.  I couldn't sleep much but I didn't care because so many of the awful symptoms it gave me were gone. 

When you say lower your Ambien dose to 12.5, do you mean all three doses? It looks like if you reduced by 5 mg, it would be about an 11% reduction which would be reasonable.  If you reduce all 3 doses to 12.5, it would be a 16% reduction which could work considering the high dose you're on. 

If we do find we're working with a powder rather than tablets, you could put the it in liquid or I've heard applesauce works well.  

And don't worry, we'll work on how to do this once we decide on the amount of the reduction, confidence in your taper is an important part of this process. 

[[al...]]

Hi @[Pa...]. So this is the first night when I reduced Ambien from 15 mg to 12.5 mg (somehow I managed to use the cutter from a pharmacy and it seems I finally learned how to cut Ambien successfully)-all three dosages. I slept like I would have slept after 15 mg. Xanax remained 0,5 three times a day. I guess I have some withdrawal symptoms from Ambien but I am able to function (basic things). Would you advise me to take small dosages of Ambien throughout the day (like 0,25 three times a day) or not to take them? Some persons here advised taking small dosages of Ambien throughout the day while lowering the night dosages. 

[[al...]]

22 hours ago, [[P...] said:

Thanks for sharing what your sleep is like, I agree @[al...], the Ambien needs to go and I'm hopeful that when its gone, you'll actually feel better, I know I did.  I couldn't sleep much but I didn't care because so many of the awful symptoms it gave me were gone. 

When you say lower your Ambien dose to 12.5, do you mean all three doses? It looks like if you reduced by 5 mg, it would be about an 11% reduction which would be reasonable.  If you reduce all 3 doses to 12.5, it would be a 16% reduction which could work considering the high dose you're on. 

If we do find we're working with a powder rather than tablets, you could put the it in liquid or I've heard applesauce works well.  

And don't worry, we'll work on how to do this once we decide on the amount of the reduction, confidence in your taper is an important part of this process. 

Thank You! It's my first little success. 

[[Pa...]]

2 hours ago, [[a...] said:

Would you advise me to take small dosages of Ambien throughout the day (like 0,25 three times a day) or not to take them? Some persons here advised taking small dosages of Ambien throughout the day while lowering the night dosages. 

I'm very happy to hear you slept with the reduced dose, so much of this is a mind game, its easy to psyche ourselves up but you managed to keep a cool head, excellent!

I will never advise day dosing Ambien as its a hypnotic and can cause gaps in your memory, sleep eating, driving, sex and other activities are a real thing.  You could end up doing any of them and have no recollection, until something horrible happened.  

I'm unsure about your mention of taking Ambien during the day to make up for the reduced dose at night, that doesn't make sense because you want to eliminate the Ambien.  Or perhaps I'm not understanding your question?

I believe that keeping your Xanax dose consistent while reducing the Ambien is the best course of action for now.

 

[[al...]]

Thank You @[Pa...] I agree with You. I mentioned dosing Ambien throughout the day because maybe it would make me feel better but you are right. The main goal should be to gradually get this substance out of the system. And then target Xanax. The way I feel sucks but I hope that one day the sun will rise again. Will keep you updated. Thank You for your help! 

[[al...]]

Hi @Pamster, so it seems my plan which I think was reasonable needs to be changed- my provider is forcing me to reduce Xanax as well. From today on I need to take 0,25 mg three times a day. Keep your fingers crossed my brain manages to adjust to this dose reduction. I am scared. 

[[Pa...]]

Oh @[al...], this is terrible news!  A 50% reduction?  Can you reason with them, why the change?  This is unreasonable and cruel!  Would showing them some documentation about the folly of their request help?

[[al...]]

Nope. I will either stick to that or will have to look for another psychiatrist And of course they all invite me to a detox center and I kindly refuse. They also claim they feel like dealers prescribing me those drugs and I have to follow their recommendations strictly even if I feel unwell and ask for a slower taper. Of course I am also addicted. The mere fact of having to go to appointments with psychiatrists is traumatizing to me. 

[[Pa...]]

1 hour ago, [[a...] said:

Nope. I will either stick to that or will have to look for another psychiatrist And of course they all invite me to a detox center and I kindly refuse. They also claim they feel like dealers prescribing me those drugs and I have to follow their recommendations strictly even if I feel unwell and ask for a slower taper. Of course I am also addicted. The mere fact of having to go to appointments with psychiatrists is traumatizing to me. 

There is so little understanding in the medical field for what we go through, too many get labeled as addicts when its physiological, our bodies are simply reacting to the conditions the drug sets up, we have no choice in the matter. 

Have we discussed seeking a Nurse Practitioner, I've heard they can be a bit more flexible. 

[[al...]]

Nurse practitiiners in Poland cannot independently write prescriptions. 

[[al...]]

I have found two additional  packages of 0,25 Xanax so I might make it somehow inbetweem 0,25 and 0,5 till January but in the long run I really would like to find a psychiatrist or a doctor who will start helping me instead of putting me down. I have started looking outside Poland- I really hope to find someone in another EU country who is familiar with Maudsley Deprescribing Practices. If I had had better care I would have long gotten off these drugs. Even tapering Xanax slowly (0,5-0,4-0,3-0,2-0,1-0) would take about only 6 months.