The Long Hold Support Group

[Guest [Lo...]]

Seems I have been a long hold for a long time, as I have not started my taper and I am having horrible withdrawal symptoms—numbness/tingling, panic, Dr/dr, etc.  Do I need to updose first?  Hate doing that.

[Guest [Lo...]]

Hello Valley,

I am struggling and was referred to as you apparently gave this advice to others about stabilizing.  I have been experiencing symptoms for a few months that lead me to believe it is more than a thyroid issue—numbness/tingling, adreneline surges/panic, inability to sleep without Ambien, trembling, depersonalization. Wanted to get taper underway, but I am definitely not stable.  Do you suggest dosing up on the Klonopin?  I take .5 late in evening. How does updosing work?  It is hard to function like this.  Thank you for any help you can provide.

Lookinup

 

[[va...]]

Seems I have been a long hold for a long time, as I have not started my taper and I am having horrible withdrawal symptoms—numbness/tingling, panic, Dr/dr, etc.  Do I need to updose first?  Hate doing that.

 

Hi Lookinup,

 

You seem to be tapering several meds at the same time, is that so? It's not recommended to taper more than one med. One at a time. If you're feeling so bad usually it is advised to hold your dose for as long as it takes to feel more like your normal you, before considering another cut. I certainly wouldn't cut anything if you're feeling very symptomatic. If you're already feeling bad withdrawals, cutting will only make things worse. You have to wait. Sometimes the wait takes long and its very difficult to wait, but it's better than pushing through intolerable symptoms and getting even worse.

 

Please even if you don't get a quick answer keep posting here. Sometimes the posts get lost in the other posts, but eventually you will be seen and taken care of.

[Guest [Lo...]]

Seems I have been a long hold for a long time, as I have not started my taper and I am having horrible withdrawal symptoms—numbness/tingling, panic, Dr/dr, etc.  Do I need to updose first?  Hate doing that.

 

Hi Lookinup,

 

You seem to be tapering several meds at the same time, is that so? It's not recommended to taper more than one med. One at a time. If you're feeling so bad usually it is advised to hold your dose for as long as it takes to feel more like your normal you, before considering another cut. I certainly wouldn't cut anything if you're feeling very symptomatic. If you're already feeling bad withdrawals, cutting will only make things worse. You have to wait. Sometimes the wait takes long and its very difficult to wait, but it's better than pushing through intolerable symptoms and getting even worse.

 

Please even if you don't get a quick answer keep posting here. Sometimes the posts get lost in the other posts, but eventually you will be seen and taken care of.

Have not even started Klonopin taper.  Should I consider updose for now? The symptoms are unbearable.  Thank you.

[[va...]]

Hello Valley,

I am struggling and was referred to as you apparently gave this advice to others about stabilizing.  I have been experiencing symptoms for a few months that lead me to believe it is more than a thyroid issue—numbness/tingling, adreneline surges/panic, inability to sleep without Ambien, trembling, depersonalization. Wanted to get taper underway, but I am definitely not stable.  Do you suggest dosing up on the Klonopin?  I take .5 late in evening. How does updosing work?  It is hard to function like this.  Thank you for any help you can provide.

Lookinup

 

Lookinup you're only taking ambien since June but started with 10 mgs? Ambien is not helping with your taper. There are better options for sleep. Ambien makes benzo taper more difficult.

 

Please any of the veterans advice Lookinup. He's on klonopin trying to taper and sleeping on Ambien since June. I would think first taper the ambien and HOLD the klonopin as the ambien has only been in his life for four months and would probably be easier to get rid of. Ambien is not a benzo but it's a benzo like drug and it can be as difficult to quit as benzos so it's better to avoid it if you want off your benzo. I learned this the hard way.

 

I would personally hold the klonopin, taper the ambien very carefully, and about updosing the klonopin I would like the other members who are more experienced and especially the ones who taper klonopin, to step up and help you.

 

This is just my opinion about holding the klonopin, tapering the ambien first and then staying away from ambien and any other z drug forever, and taper your klonopin once you feel stable after your ambien taper.

 

Insomnia is horrible I know. I was sleeping between zero and two hours a night for two months. There are other drugs that help with sleep and are not z drugs or benzos. Trazodone works for me but when I was in very severe withdrawal it did nothing for me. However when I started getting better trazodone started helping with sleep. You might want to find out other options to sleep apart from ambien and other z drugs.

[[va...]]

Lookinup, if you haven't started the klonopin taper, I would like to know why you think you are having all these symptoms. What is the reason? Just so that I can understand.

 

And since when did you start having these symptoms.

[[AZ...]]

Seems I have been a long hold for a long time, as I have not started my taper and I am having horrible withdrawal symptoms—numbness/tingling, panic, Dr/dr, etc.  Do I need to updose first?  Hate doing that.

Hi Lookin,

I see you have been cutting or tapering 3 different psych drugs up until summertime.  This amount of change can take some time to resolve unfortunately.  What you’re feeling could still be withdrawal/recovery from those 3 drugs.  I would agree you probably need to stabilize for a while  and a long hold is probably a good idea.  I had strong symptoms and it took a good 5 or 6 months holding ALL my psych drugs very stable, and gradually I improved and could start tapering like I am now.  It can take some time, I’d give it 6 months of holding stable.  If you don’t feel very gradual improvement in time,  I would consider whether the K was giving you tolerance withdrawal and you may try to updose the K but remember the improvements can be VERY gradual.

 

That’s just my thoughts based on my experience.  Continue to also Listen and consider what your doctor recommends also,  I do agree with stabilizing more.

 

Hang in there, I know it takes great courage but you will make it like thousands of others!

[Guest [Lo...]]

Hello Valley,

I am struggling and was referred to as you apparently gave this advice to others about stabilizing.  I have been experiencing symptoms for a few months that lead me to believe it is more than a thyroid issue—numbness/tingling, adreneline surges/panic, inability to sleep without Ambien, trembling, depersonalization. Wanted to get taper underway, but I am definitely not stable.  Do you suggest dosing up on the Klonopin?  I take .5 late in evening. How does updosing work?  It is hard to function like this.  Thank you for any help you can provide.

Lookinup

 

Lookinup you're only taking ambien since June but started with 10 mgs? Ambien is not helping with your taper. There are better options for sleep. Ambien makes benzo taper more difficult.

 

Please any of the veterans advice Lookinup. He's on klonopin trying to taper and sleeping on Ambien since June. I would think first taper the ambien and HOLD the klonopin as the ambien has only been in his life for four months and would probably be easier to get rid of. Ambien is not a benzo but it's a benzo like drug and it can be as difficult to quit as benzos so it's better to avoid it if you want off your benzo. I learned this the hard way.

 

I would personally hold the klonopin, taper the ambien very carefully, and about updosing the klonopin I would like the other members who are more experienced and especially the ones who taper klonopin, to step up and help you.

 

This is just my opinion about holding the klonopin, tapering the ambien first and then staying away from ambien and any other z drug forever, and taper your klonopin once you feel stable after your ambien taper.

 

Insomnia is horrible I know. I was sleeping between zero and two hours a night for two months. There are other drugs that help with sleep and are not z drugs or benzos. Trazodone works for me but when I was in very severe withdrawal it did nothing for me. However when I started getting better trazodone started helping with sleep. You might want to find out other options to sleep apart from ambien and other z drugs.

. I know I need to get off that Z drug .  I stopped mirtazapine in June and all my symptoms happened right after.  Also have thyroid level condition, which everyone thinks is my problem.  Not causing these symptoms!  Thank you. Tapering that will be difficult.  Any suggestion.  I am on about 7.5 now.

[[De...]]

Hi lookinup,

You may be having wx from remeron.  I wouldnt taper anything  at this time. Except maybe the ambien like vali said. I would go to the remeron support group and see what others experienced grom coming of Remeron. I would also look for an ambien support group as well. You will be ok.

 

[[De...]]

There is a z drug support.group. Ambien is a z drug. I suggest you read thru that as well and ask for support.

[Guest [Lo...]]

Hi lookinup,

You may be having wx from remeron.  I wouldnt taper anything  at this time. Except maybe the ambien like vali said. I would go to the remeron support group and see what others experienced grom coming of Remeron. I would also look for an ambien support group as well. You will be ok.

Thank you for your advice and kind words.  I think Vali’s advice was good-get rid of the Ambien.  I just don’t want any permanent damage from ongoing Klonopin withdrawal that I haven’t even started to taper yet. 

[[De...]]

Mmmm,

How are you feeling today  you ok ?

[Guest [Lo...]]

Mmmm,

How are you feeling today  you ok ?

numbness continues on bottoms of feet and tingling around mouth.  So scared about all of this.

[[De...]]

Lookin,

I would ho to the remeron group. See if anyone else had those sx.

I heard it is really hard to come of of.  Look at the z drug too. You might see some things in there you can relate too. If you want ask them questions. 

[Guest [Lo...]]

Lookin,

I would ho to the remeron group. See if anyone else had those sx.

I heard it is really hard to come of of.  Look at the z drug too. You might see some things in there you can relate too. If you want ask them questions.

So it doesn’t sound like something that should be coming from Klonopin when not tapering?

 

[[va...]]

Lookingup I agree with all the good advice Dehytq has given you. If you came off remeron fast or CT, you'd be having remeron withdrawals which could last quite a while. Until you get over those withdrawals I wouldn't attempt to taper the klonopin. We've been on this stuff for years so I think a few months more won't make a difference. I'd hold the klonopin, wait for the mirtazapine wds to end, but I'm doubting what to think about the ambien. You've been on it since June. You need advice from someone more experienced on that one. Forget you're having klonopin withdrawals if you haven't started tapering. You're likely having remeron wds as that's the drug you've come off of. Ask about the ambien in the z drug group like Suzanne said. I wouldn't dare taper the klonopin until you've been feeling more stable for a few weeks at least. We'll be here for you.

[[De...]]

Hi lookin,

I am not.100 %.sure. Its not like you changed your dose.  Just trying to narriw it down because you tapered the remeron and ambien. That is why i suggested you ask then if thwy had those sx. Not to say if you want to taper of k you cant. But it would he could to know why you are feeling the way you are know. We dint want to make it worse.

[[Ma...]]

I'm honestly glad that you're giggling, Mary.  :thumbsup:

 

I am not good at maths, Trishy. I will see if Bill can help you because the question keeps changing!

 

Gxxx 💙

I'm certain it's 0.03125 English  :laugh: that's what the calculator tells me. I used to cut my Xanax by a  quarter of a pill at a time now I don't eliminate the full quarter just half of the quarter.  :laugh:

 

Then, is that is the case you are right.  Now, my head is exhausted  .    Go to bed.

 

Bill, she is still yours....... :smitten:

yay!! Ding, ding, ding!! It's a winner pizza and apple question solved  :laugh:

 

Bill you're lucky to have me as your friend  :laugh:

 

Ok good night everyone mm is right it's my bed time  so wishing you all a peaceful night here at the LHSG 

 

Over and out love to all,

TT, Too many Ts Trish  :smitten:

 

WOW, this is hilarious!  What have I done to start this?!?  I’m starting to doubt my own math now.  Mary, do I have to take her?

 

I am getting hungry for pizza and apple pie though.  It sounds like really, really, no kidding, Trishy you cut 0.03125 which is 2.78%.  Not bad at all.

 

I kinda dread your next cut though.....

 

Bill, I really like you but you have just experienced a small Trishy cut.  I went through a year of this, that's why I know someone with your kind, mathematical heart will take her.  I will even send the pie

:2funny:     You're grateful friend, Mary 

[Guest [Lo...]]

Lookingup I agree with all the good advice Dehytq has given you. If you came off remeron fast or CT, you'd be having remeron withdrawals which could last quite a while. Until you get over those withdrawals I wouldn't attempt to taper the klonopin. We've been on this stuff for years so I think a few months more won't make a difference. I'd hold the klonopin, wait for the mirtazapine wds to end, but I'm doubting what to think about the ambien. You've been on it since June. You need advice from someone more experienced on that one. Forget you're having klonopin withdrawals if you haven't started tapering. You're likely having remeron wds as that's the drug you've come off of. Ask about the ambien in the z drug group like Suzanne said. I wouldn't dare taper the klonopin until you've been feeling more stable for a few weeks at least. We'll be here for you.

Thank you for your support.  My endo wants me to just keep everything the same for now too.  I will be in touch.

[Guest [Lo...]]

Hi lookin,

I am not.100 %.sure. Its not like you changed your dose.  Just trying to narriw it down because you tapered the remeron and ambien. That is why i suggested you ask then if thwy had those sx. Not to say if you want to taper of k you cant. But it would he could to know why you are feeling the way you are know. We dint want to make it worse.

Thank you for your support.  I wish I knew, but tapering feeling this way is not good.  I will be in touch.

[[Va...]]

Hello Valley,

I am struggling and was referred to as you apparently gave this advice to others about stabilizing.  I have been experiencing symptoms for a few months that lead me to believe it is more than a thyroid issue—numbness/tingling, adreneline surges/panic, inability to sleep without Ambien, trembling, depersonalization. Wanted to get taper underway, but I am definitely not stable.  Do you suggest dosing up on the Klonopin?  I take .5 late in evening. How does updosing work?  It is hard to function like this.  Thank you for any help you can provide.

Lookinup

Hi Lookinup!  It looks like you already came to a resolution about your dilemma by the time I got here lol. I agree with Bill on holding steady in all meds until everything calms down. In my experience with updosing, I believe it can be effective. As a rule of thumb, you could follow the guideline below from the propaganda list:

 

"If you've thrown yourself into chaotic withdrawal syndrome by ill-advised experimentation (or poor advice), holding is probably preferable to further decreasing or quitting altogether.

 

You need to bring some order to the chaos. If you hold at one level (of all your drugs), you are at least giving your nervous system some stability. Given the constants -- which still may be causing adverse effects, etc. -- your nervous system will regroup over time.

 

Once you see some consistency in symptom pattern, you can carefully adjust dosage to see what will help If during a hold the windows pattern is not promising, a slight updose may be called for."

 

I did a slight updose during my hold and it was done the same way as a taper by gradually adding the amount back daily that I was tapering daily until I had updosed by .5. I would just caution about up dosing though, usually holding will do the trick if you’re patient enough.

 

There was also a discussion I had with other members about updosing. Some believe that if you experience severe destabilization soon after a cut, you need to add back the amount cut within a couple of days and it will help.

 

The problem with Benzo withdrawal is that there is no hard fast rule for anything and as long as you’re going slow and being careful, you will minimize the withdrawal effects.

 

Hang in there!  —V

 

[[Va...]]

Hi V,

I know it is a crazy story. I just have to make it through this benzo wd. I am not even worried about the other meds now. I was dedtabilized somewere  for sure. Maybe it was meant to be so i could get off the benzo. It eas to stresdful being on them anyway. Hope you are doing ok. Is your pain getting better at all?

I know you will make it!  I know the stress of being on them for sure. In fact, my whole adrenal system shut down and I had to be treated for a couple years with hormones and finally after doing research realized  it was the Benzos that caused the shutdown by suppressing the adrenals.

 

Pain is increasing for some reason. I believe I have too much csf pressure built up again and it is causing the symptoms to re emerge. It was the reason that I was out in Valium in the first place. I will just cross my fingers that it will right itself again. Thanks for the kind thoughts    —V

[[Va...]]

Trishy, I have no idea what you are talking about.  — V

[[De...]]

Thanks Valley,

I cant believe your adrenal system shut down.These drugs are unbelievable to me. The havac the do to people. What do you have to do for the cfs. I am sorry. I hope it is not to painful. I dont know to much about csf. I will have to do some reading on it. Feel better and you are strong anyone who can make it through bwd can make it through anything. Thanks for your help. I guess i will continue to hold. Love Suzanne

[Guest [Lo...]]

Hello Valley,

I am struggling and was referred to as you apparently gave this advice to others about stabilizing.  I have been experiencing symptoms for a few months that lead me to believe it is more than a thyroid issue—numbness/tingling, adreneline surges/panic, inability to sleep without Ambien, trembling, depersonalization. Wanted to get taper underway, but I am definitely not stable.  Do you suggest dosing up on the Klonopin?  I take .5 late in evening. How does updosing work?  It is hard to function like this.  Thank you for any help you can provide.

Lookinup

Thank you very much for your reply.  I have not yet tapered at all and am feeling like I have more of a tolerance or interdose issue.  The Ambien may be the culprit.  Do you ever suggest converting Ambien to Klonopin?  It may ultimately make tapering easier and get rid of the short acting benzo like drug.  Thanks again for all your help.  Just trying to feel better. Could also still be experiencing the horrid withdrawal effects from stopping Remeron in June!  That’s when the Ambien got on board.

Hi Lookinup!  It looks like you already came to a resolution about your dilemma by the time I got here lol. I agree with Bill on holding steady in all meds until everything calms down. In my experience with updosing, I believe it can be effective. As a rule of thumb, you could follow the guideline below from the propaganda list:

 

"If you've thrown yourself into chaotic withdrawal syndrome by ill-advised experimentation (or poor advice), holding is probably preferable to further decreasing or quitting altogether.

 

You need to bring some order to the chaos. If you hold at one level (of all your drugs), you are at least giving your nervous system some stability. Given the constants -- which still may be causing adverse effects, etc. -- your nervous system will regroup over time.

 

Once you see some consistency in symptom pattern, you can carefully adjust dosage to see what will help If during a hold the windows pattern is not promising, a slight updose may be called for."

 

I did a slight updose during my hold and it was done the same way as a taper by gradually adding the amount back daily that I was tapering daily until I had updosed by .5. I would just caution about up dosing though, usually holding will do the trick if you’re patient enough.

 

There was also a discussion I had with other members about updosing. Some believe that if you experience severe destabilization soon after a cut, you need to add back the amount cut within a couple of days and it will help.

 

The problem with Benzo withdrawal is that there is no hard fast rule for anything and as long as you’re going slow and being careful, you will minimize the withdrawal effects.

 

Hang in there!  —V