Do certain thoughts torment you nonstop?

[Guest [Fa...]]

My brain torments me all day with different thoughts.

 

The past week it is about reinstating. It's on my mind 24/7.

 

Are these intrusive thoughts?

[[bo...]]

Every single second for the past 18 months.

[Guest [sc...]]

I’m plagued by obsessive worry much of the time.  It’s torture.

[Guest [Fa...]]

Boom - clonazepam is a sadistic beast.

[Guest [Fa...]]

Scrabble - I can relate. My mind is one long intrusive thought

[[ne...]]

Hello Friends, 

 

I'm reading a book called "The Placebo Effect" and it discusses how our thoughts create our reality. There are countless studies that show that people recover from terminal illnesses, life-long diagnosis' and disabilities, ect.. just by changing the way that they think. It's amazing, how you can re-wire your brain and recover just by believing that you can and will recover. It is not some voodoo magic or hoax, either. Our neuro-transmitters and brain chemistry actually change based on our thoughts.

 

A basic example of the mind/body (CNS) relationship from the book I am reading: there was a man injured in WW2 and they ran out of morphine. A nurse injected the patient with a syringe filled with salt-water and the patient immediately felt no pain and they could begin operating. This is because the patient believed he had been injected with morphine and his brain/central nervous system responded accordingly. The point is, your thoughts matter and although it is difficult to control them during withdrawal it is important that you believe that you can heal/are healing and if you can do that, you'll begin to heal much faster. The most powerful and accessible pharmacy essentially is in your head 

 

Just wanted to share that, now back to reading I go!

[[ne...]]

^^^^

 

Here's a quote on how this works:

 

"The neurological research shows something truly remarkable: If a person keeps taking the same substance, his or her brain keeps firing the same circuits in the same way--in effect, memorizing what the substance does. The person can easily become conditioned to the effect of a particular pill or injection from associating it with a familiar internal change from past experience. Because of this kind of conditioning, when the person then takes a placebo, the same hard-wired circuits will fire as when he or she took the drug. An associative memory elicits a subconscious program that makes a connection between the pill or injection and the hormonal change in the body, and then the program automatically signals the body's autonomic nervous system to make the related chemicals found in the drug. . . . Isn't that amazing?"

 

Basically, your mind is stuck in a "loop" of negativity and you have to intercept that loop with positive thoughts. Your negative loop now is "I will never heal, I should reinstate." Try telling yourself "I am healing naturally" and your brain/body will respond accordingly, by releasing the same chemicals in your brain that are released when on the medication.

 

 

[[ea...]]

Neoapostle, nice post, and it sure explains why "faking it" worked SO well for me. I recently read that substituting the word optimistic for "positive." that made sense to me. I had been told here on BB to try faking it, and then I also recalled my old therapist telling me to try this. My bad benzo brain back then did not LET me do this, I just resisted, writing off as "new age crack pot" stuff.

Well, when one is desperate for relief, you will try just about anything that might help you. So, very early on, I attempted to fake it. Maybe because I have always been good with words, especially written ones, this tactic fairly quickly became a habit. I just sense (dimly!) that it might help me with a truly awful ct off benzos. It sure was. I STILL fake it but now it just comes easily to me. I remain optimistic no matter what is thrown my way.

This stuff really does work and I wish more people knew about this.

east

[[Do...]]

Exactly East.  This is the most important component of my healing.  Why this is not 'preached' here like distraction is..is beyond me.  As Neo points out, neuroplasticity is well researched and explained well in layman's terms.  Why aren't more people diving into this???

 

I have received some blow back on this forum for talking about this science.  Somebody called it hocus pocus guru smack.  It's the most powerful tool we have.  Anyone can use this immediately. 

 

Thanks Neo...it is fascinating and a game changer.  Keep posting!

 

 

[[so...]]

I think the blowback you experience from members is their objections to your insinuations that these very physiologically-based mental symptoms can be controlled by “faking it” until your brain catches up to the place you want to be. 

 

The physiologically-based mental symptoms subside by themselves, with or without help from you.  “Faking it” is a coping skill, not a cure, which is how your posts come across.  It also leads members to believe that perhaps you think they aren’t doing enough to help themselves, while your suggestions are beyond what they can muster at the time.

 

Sofa

[[Do...]]

I think the blowback you experience from members is their objections to your insinuations that these very physiologically-based mental symptoms can be controlled by “faking it” until your brain catches up to the place you want to be. 

 

The physiologically-based mental symptoms subside by themselves, with or without help from you.  “Faking it” is a coping skill, not a cure, which is how your posts come across.  It also leads members to believe that perhaps you think they aren’t doing enough to help themselves, while your suggestions are beyond what they can muster at the time.

 

Sofa

 

Thanks Sofa, This sure does explain the confusion.  East uses the term 'faking it while she described her journey.  Neuroplasticity goes much deeper with scientific data to back up results.  You have been here for a very long time.  I am surprised you are not more familiar with the science.  It most certainly isn't a cure...but a tool that can be very helpful in the healing process.  I found it to be similar to meditation.  The more I practice, the better the result. I have talked with many people who this has helped.  I have been through a horrific journey like so many here.  I was grateful for any resource that could help me help myself.  It is like taking 'distraction' to the next level.

 

Don't shoot something down that could help a lot of people in their long road to recovery.  It's not a pill or a risky venture with possible severe side effects.  It's the science of neural pathways.  Allow people to explore it for themselves when they are able.  Your resistance is perplexing.  Would you dismiss CBT?  This has helped many people and it parallels neuroplasticity.

[[...]]

I think the blowback you experience from members is their objections to your insinuations that these very physiologically-based mental symptoms can be controlled by “faking it” until your brain catches up to the place you want to be. 

 

The physiologically-based mental symptoms subside by themselves, with or without help from you.  “Faking it” is a coping skill, not a cure, which is how your posts come across.  It also leads members to believe that perhaps you think they aren’t doing enough to help themselves, while your suggestions are beyond what they can muster at the time.

 

Sofa

 

Thanks Sofa, This sure does explain the confusion.  East uses the term 'faking it while she described her journey.  Neuroplasticity goes much deeper with scientific data to back up results.  You have been here for a very long time.  I am surprised you are not more familiar with the science.  It most certainly isn't a cure...but a tool that can be very helpful in the healing process.  I found it to be similar to meditation.  The more I practice, the better the result. I have talked with many people who this has helped.  I have been through a horrific journey like so many here.  I was grateful for any resource that could help me help myself.  It is like taking 'distraction' to the next level.

 

Don't shoot something down that could help a lot of people in their long road to recovery.  It's not a pill or a risky venture with possible severe side effects.  It's the science of neural pathways.  Allow people to explore it for themselves when they are able.  Your resistance is perplexing.  Would you dismiss CBT?  This has helped many people and it parallels neuroplasticity.

 

Very well said, Dove!

 

I've been battling people like her and others from the "Time is the Only Healer" camp pretty much since the day I joined BB.  How any semi-intelligent person can genuinely believe that every single person will magically become free of each and every symptom "with or without help" is beyond comprehension.  This thoughtless mantra only serves to cultivate and reinforce the helpless victim mentality, and I believe it has done a great disservice to many members. 

 

As regards "Faking It" or whatever one cares to call it, well, yes, I would absolutely go as far as saying that this strategy, in certain instances, for certain people, and for certain symptoms, can indeed be the *cure* (e.g. depression, as an example).

 

I think people need to be encouraged, wherever possible, to be active participants in their own recovery, NOT held back just in case others "may" take something personally, or whatever.

 

Please keep posting, Neo.

[Guest [Fa...]]

abcd - what do you recommend doing for recovery if time isn't the only healer?

[[ea...]]

Folks, it does not matter what WORDS I use to describe the one thing that seemed to help me the most. I call it faking it, you call it something else. No matter, this stuff does work. I chose to word it simply ONLY because some of our members are truly unable to grasp more "scientific"  descriptions of what is really a very simple process. Back when I was in acute, I would not have been ale to grasp posts about "plasticity". LOL! I could barely think and getting that sort of things was way beyond me then.

 

Sofa, relax a bit. I have NEVER, EVER said "faking it" is a cure! LOL! It IS a coping skill, but one that CAN, if done for long enough, cause REAL changes in how one feels and thinks.

 

Dove, I agree with you. I have no idea why so many members resist trying this. One has nothing to lose by trying to do this. It cannot hurt you, and it just might help you. Over the years I have taken some flack for this, but I really don't care. I have always attempted to be honest and not lead anyone on. I actually find it sort of funny that people think I am PRO cold turkey as I have NEVER said anything remotely like that. All I have ever said was that for SOME people, and I was one of them, cold turkey MAY be their only hope of getting off benzos, recovering and living a healthy, normal life, just as I do NOW.

 

Online forums can be really strange. We only have written words on a screen. You cannot see my face, or see any non verbal clues, so you may just jump ahead and read a post WAY wrong. All of us do this. I sure do.

east

[[so...]]

I know a great deal about neuroplasticity and neuropathways that can be actively created by many activities.  I also believe everyone heals, even if they can’t do much to help themselves in their current state.  I believe that, over time, abilities come back as the body heals.  People can do more and more and this snowball effect culminates in recovery.

 

Sofa

[Guest [Fa...]]

Sofa - Thank you.  Where would you say you are in recovery?

[[so...]]

FINAO,

 

I’m probably 90% healed.  It’s kind of hard to tell sometimes due to upticks I get, but once I settle down from them (it takes about 3 days, down from 3 weeks last year) I’m probably 95%. The upticks hit me so hard mentally that I lose all hope and feel like nothing has changed at all.  That’s the scariest part for me, the mental stuff.

 

You’ll be okay, sweetheart.  Don’t look at my timeframe and get frightened.  It got better and easier as each year passed, especially this year.  After four years, healing really sped up for me.  You could heal in half the time it took me.  You never know.  This is so different for each person.

 

Hugs to you, FINAO,

 

Sofa

[[...]]

abcd - what do you recommend doing for recovery if time isn't the only healer?

 

Hi Finao, I've posted about this dozens of times over the years, and quite recently there was some good discussion on this subject in Protracted, where a member articulated far more succinctly and eloquently than I ever could.  I'll bring in that post here.  But, to drive home the essence of what I'm trying to say, let me ask you what your reaction might be if I were to respond with something like, "Hey Finao, this is the regime that fully cured me within a few short weeks.  I recommend eliminating these two foods from your diet and adding in extra large servings of x, y, and z, plus four glasses per day of this mineral water, and attending zumba classes twice a week.  Worked like magic, constipation all gone!"

 

Lol!  You'd probably think I was nuts, why would you care about my constipation cure when your GI is fine but, instead, you're in utter torment with some wicked mental symptoms?  And someone suffering with extreme sound sensitivity or dizziness going to zumba classes?!

 

So, in summary, simply put by the abovementioned member: 

 

"I believe the reason there is no collective consensus about what "works" is because we don't share the exact same pathologies. There can be no collective "treatment" that works for everyone, only individual treatments that work for individuals."

 

You can read the full post/thread here:  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=225771.msg2911270#msg2911270

 

And another here:  http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=226794.msg2917049#msg2917049

[[pi...]]

To everyone who posted here,

 

Continue to debate and discuss at will, we welcome that on the forum. However, personal attacks are not permitted.  Just remember, you won't agree with everyone and everyone won't agree with you.  If you post something provocative, expect a similar response.

 

pianogirl

[[be...]]

I think the blowback you experience from members is their objections to your insinuations that these very physiologically-based mental symptoms can be controlled by “faking it” until your brain catches up to the place you want to be. 

 

The physiologically-based mental symptoms subside by themselves, with or without help from you.  “Faking it” is a coping skill, not a cure, which is how your posts come across.  It also leads members to believe that perhaps you think they aren’t doing enough to help themselves, while your suggestions are beyond what they can muster at the time.

 

Sofa

 

Thanks Sofa, This sure does explain the confusion.  East uses the term 'faking it while she described her journey.  Neuroplasticity goes much deeper with scientific data to back up results.  You have been here for a very long time.  I am surprised you are not more familiar with the science.  It most certainly isn't a cure...but a tool that can be very helpful in the healing process.  I found it to be similar to meditation.  The more I practice, the better the result. I have talked with many people who this has helped.  I have been through a horrific journey like so many here.  I was grateful for any resource that could help me help myself.  It is like taking 'distraction' to the next level.

 

Don't shoot something down that could help a lot of people in their long road to recovery.  It's not a pill or a risky venture with possible severe side effects.  It's the science of neural pathways.  Allow people to explore it for themselves when they are able.  Your resistance is perplexing.  Would you dismiss CBT?  This has helped many people and it parallels neuroplasticity.

 

From my personal experience, CBT doesn’t work well if you have a lot of brain fog like so many of us do or are in the throes of post taper symptoms. Which is a whole bunch of people here. Just sayin.

[[Do...]]

Same here..I couldn't process info or read very well first 4 months.  At 5 months, Some cog fog cleared and I was able to focus and process stuff much better.  This timeline varies greatly for everyone.  That is what we know for sure.

I think one advantage I had post jump was that I was already familiar with meditation, neuroplasticity and CBT.  This helped so much because I didn't have to learn completely new concepts.  Although, I did have to read it all over again and begin practicing from step one.  My cognitive functions really took a hit.

[[ne...]]

Hello all 

 

I just went back and read the responses on here and realized my post about neuroplasticity as a mechanism to healcaused quite the controversy!

 

That's okay, the idea that positive thinking will heal you (or as East put it "fake it til' you make it") can come off as "self-help garbage" and that's exactly how I interpreted it for years. Then I started discovering all of the supporting evidence and studies showing how positive thinking (mental rehearsal) creates functional changes in the brain. As the damage from benzo's are mainly functional (as opposed to structural) damage to neuro-transmitters/receptors in the brain, I realized that this approach may be a very powerful tool for our particular situation (although it has proven to even repair structural damage as well).

 

Also, I don't discredit any of your skepticism/criticism as I think everyone has valid viewpoints here. Benzo girl, I agree that it is very difficult to practice anything like this while in severe acute withdrawal so this may not be the best place to start for those in acute. When I was in acute, I couldn't read or use a computer effectively much less control my thoughts so I understand that viewpoint but still believe it can be of use if applied with grounding exercises. What worked for me, though, was deep-breathing combined with mindfulness techniques to fend off severe symptoms, like seizure/fainting for example.

 

I think the best thing is to start a thread to share these ideas with all of you. As I read and research neuroplasticity, endocrinology, biology, ect.. I can't help but to think about all the buddies here and how much this knowledge pertains to our situation. Especially you 'Failureisnotanoption'! I'll be starting a new thread soon to share all of my research and studies as it pertains to recovery from benzos.

 

na- 

[[so...]]

I had never meditated before all this happened to me.  I knew nothing about neuro-ANYTHING before the gates of hell opened up.  When I fell into the abyss, I limped onto the Internet with my impaired brain and read sixteen hours a day, searching for answers about what was happening to me.  I shot out of the gate with akathesia.  I was lying in bed panting, popping up after two minutes, running outside to pace my backyard, lying back down in bed again—what a horrid cycle it was 24/7.  With the insomnia I got right away, there was no escape from the torture.

 

Having had no exposure to coping skills that could help me calm down, I went on YouTube and found an Irish dude with lots of videos about relaxing.  Those weren’t helpful because he kept TALKING and I couldn’t process the words.  Every time he made me focus on body parts, starting at toes and moving up my body to eventually my head, all I could feel was the electrical current coursing through my body like Frankenstein on a gurney in a lightning storm.

 

This was just the beginning of my search for coping skills.  I bumped into hundreds of websites and videos and tried them all.

 

You see, I tried—I tried so hard to help myself.  Nothing worked.  That’s why I put my arms around people and tell them I understand.  That it’s okay if nothing works.  They will get better with more time and, when better, they can keep practicing coping skills and one day something will latch on and it will help them.  They will have moments feeling relaxed now and then and those moments will eventually get longer than moments.

 

I do believe we all heal.  I am better today than those horrible days.  If I’m better today than a year ago, I’m going to continue to get better and I will wrap this up.  I do everything I can to help myself and, these days, I can do LOTS.  I’ve built up resilience to stress.  I have mastered skills that prevent it from escalating.  I am telling anyone who will listen that it took me a long time and lots of practice to get good at this.  It didn’t happen overnight.  Extraordinary skills take a long time to perfect and never happen overnight.  Just like learning how to ride a bike, keep bumping along clumsily until your ride starts smoothing out and eventually you’ll fly down the street without thinking.

 

So to all of you who think I was saying I don’t believe in neuroplasticity or positive thinking, you are mistaken.  I DO believe.  I just could not employ the skills early on to make me a believer.  I failed more times than I succeeded, but I kept at it.  I want everyone to know that these things work, even if not immediately. 

 

Don’t expect miracles, EXCEPT one...

 

You’ll heal.

 

Sofa

[[Do...]]

All good!!!  Everybody has their strengths and perspectives to offer the forum.  Without compassion and understanding, I wouldn't of made it through acute.  I appreciate all the support you offer others Sofa. 

Thanks to you too Neo..for all your research and future sharing.

[[ea...]]

Fake it til you make it is just one way of saying keep optimistic no matter what. In bwd, you do have to lie to yourself, and tell yourself over and over that you feel better than you really do. t first this feels really fakey, sort of idiotic, lame. But if you keep at this stuff it does seem to actually cause real changes in how to you think and feel.

Something I have learned in the past 2 years is that no matter how long you have been off benzos, you may still have further (m ild) healing to do. I find that amazing. Its been 7 years for me and each year has gotten better and better. This month I stopped hearing that awful looping music stuff. ALL of my recent changes are really good. I have been quite functional for 4.5 years, but ever so slowly, more slight changes came my way.

 

Sofa, nice post. When you listened to those YouTube things, you still had Benzo Brain, and that is a brain that just wont get it, no matter what. I had such an awful benzo brain I barely could even think mush less relate or make sense of stuff. YouTube videos DID help me learn to fall asleep naturally, but it took two years to achieve that. I just kept trying and trying, just as you did.

 

You have done a good job, and your posts reflect that. Thank you.

east