Does my plan make any sense?

[[Et...]]

My goal is to get off Klonopin. I've done this 2X in the past and both were brutal. And I reinstated.

 

I'd like to switch to Valium. 

 

If I understand the conversion, 1mg of Klonopin = 15mg of Valium. Because I've hard such a hard time in the past, I'm planning on taking this as slowly as possible.

 

Goal: Start at 15mg and reduce by 1mg every 2 weeks. Holding when necessary.

 

Does this make sense? Best case is I'm off in 30 weeks. But maybe it's a year. Or two. Or five. Or fifty.

 

No problemo. As long as I'm going slowly and that I never get to the point where I get so light-headed that I can't function. That's what always does me in.

 

Has anybody had luck with this approach?

 

I think Klonopin is so hard to stop because 1mg is such a tiny pill to try to successfully cut into even tinier pieces.

 

And how should I ask my Doctor to write the script? For eight 2mg tablets?

 

Thanks much in advance!

 

E

 

 

 

 

[[Ch...]]

Hi,

 

I use this equivalency chart: https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

.5mg of K is roughly equivalent to 10mg of Valium, so if I’m doing the math correctly, 1mg K = 20mg Valium. This is a rough equivalency and conversion tables vary, so if 15mg works okay for you, that much less to taper.

 

You will likely be able to cut more at first, then less as you go down in dose because the percentage of daily dose goes down, so the cut size goes down too.

 

I’d make the crossover first, make sure everything is relatively smooth going and then start a taper.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Challis

[[be...]]

Okay. I’m pretty good at this as I am a k queen.

 

I didn’t look at the chart but I assume it’s 1 mg equals 20 mg. This is the way I went and it helped a LOT.

 

Just substitute the 1 mg to 20 mg. Wait a week or so before you get rid of the klonopin because Valium takes a while to get in your system. You will feel groggy and sedated but stay strong and that will get better. Note that some people get depressed in Valium. I never did. You cut schedule is okay but something I would be scared to do. Perhaps because I was on it very long term. I agree with Ashton in principle but always felt her schedule was too fast. At 20 mg this is what I did.

 

I dropped 1 mg every 10-14 days depending on how I felt. Always listen to your body and never some stupid schedule. There are no schedules when it comes to benzos. When I got to 15 mg I slowed waaaay down and cut .25 mg a week to ten days. Yes it took a long time but the important thing was I was am highly functional and could and do live quite a normal life. Remember you can always go faster or slower. But if you think you’re going too slowly and make bigger cuts you might get a whoops a month later as the Valium has finally caught up with you. Remember the turtle and not the rabbit wins the race. Good luck. I can’t give taper advice I just post on threads where I can share my own personal experience. Best of luck and hang around.

 

Depending on if you get a 30 or 90 supply like I did the latter, I would ask for ten, 2 mg pills. They are much easier to cut and keep track of. I think challis99 has good advice but I would never go for 15 mg. It’s just too risky for me because I’m a putz.

[[Et...]]

Love the feedback.

 

I really struggled the past 2 times I tried getting off Klonopin.

 

And love the concept of having around 20MG as a starting point. Go down 1mg at a time. Or a 1/4 of a milligram. Or whatever seems to work.

 

I really meant it when I posted that if this takes 2 + years, so be it. I'm in no rush. The slower I go, the easier it should be. And if I am going this slowly, I suspect I won't even feel some of these cuts. Or at least how I feel them now. As dizzy and light-headed episodes where I can't move.

 

Ok. Getting excited to try this. Very slowly.

 

[[be...]]

Love the feedback.

 

I really struggled the past 2 times I tried getting off Klonopin.

 

And love the concept of having around 20MG as a starting point. Go down 1mg at a time. Or a 1/4 of a milligram. Or whatever seems to work.

 

I really meant it when I posted that if this takes 2 + years, so be it. I'm in no rush. The slower I go, the easier it should be. And if I am going this slowly, I suspect I won't even feel some of these cuts. Or at least how I feel them now. As dizzy and light-headed episodes where I can't move.

 

Ok. Getting excited to try this. Very slowly.

 

 

Excellent. It actually took me 5.5 years to get rid of my klonopin and Valium. And I lived a perfectly normal life throughout. And .5 mg equals 10 mg of Valium. Trust me if I can do it than you can. I’m very proud of you already. I think you’ll do fine. If there’s a blip in the road you can reach out to me via PMs. Everyone here wants everyone else to succeed. When I made a cut, I felt it a little bit. Like nighttime wake ups and sore muscles. Nothing major. Remember you have to decide what is tolerable and what is not. Some people feel it’s tolerable to make another cut while too sick to leave the house. Others want to be completely symptom free, IMO.  I’ll settle for some minor issues but hold if they get worse. You’re the boss, not the benzos.

[[Ro...]]

Hi,

 

I use this equivalency chart: https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

.5mg of K is roughly equivalent to 10mg of Valium, so if I’m doing the math correctly, 1mg K = 20mg Valium. This is a rough equivalency and conversion tables vary, so if 15mg works okay for you, that much less to taper.

 

You will likely be able to cut more at first, then less as you go down in dose because the percentage of daily dose goes down, so the cut size goes down too.

 

I’d make the crossover first, make sure everything is relatively smooth going and then start a taper.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Challis

 

Hi Challis!

 

I did a fast taper from klonopin 1 mg, I didn’t know anything about benzos and I didn’t know what I was doing. I reinstated 1,75 mg and I couldn’t stabilize. After two months I made two really small cuts 3%, and it was terrible. Is it possible to switch to Diazepam and get stable after this two small cuts or it’s two late? I’m almost nonfunctional and the withdrawal simptomps are terrible and I don’t have a stable baseline. What do you think. Crossover to Diszepam can help? I have to stabilize.

Thank you

Enikô

[[be...]]

I guess I’ll leave this to challis99 since it was addressed to her but her benzo and tapering expertise are not the same as mine, hence I made the long reply to the OP. Good luck.

[[Ro...]]

I guess I’ll leave this to challis99 since it was addressed to her but her benzo and tapering expertise are not the same as mine, hence I made the long reply to the OP. Good luck.

Thank you, but I’m new on BB. What does OP mean?

Enikô

[[Cr...]]

I guess I’ll leave this to challis99 since it was addressed to her but her benzo and tapering expertise are not the same as mine, hence I made the long reply to the OP. Good luck.

Thank you, but I’m new on BB. What does OP mean?

Enikô

Hi Rozalinda67,

OP means Original Poster.

Dave. 

[[Ro...]]

I guess I’ll leave this to challis99 since it was addressed to her but her benzo and tapering expertise are not the same as mine, hence I made the long reply to the OP. Good luck.

Thank you, but I’m new on BB. What does OP mean?

Enikô

Hi Rozalinda67,

OP means Original Poster.

Dave. 

And what does Original Poster means? 😧

[[pi...]]

Hi,

 

I use this equivalency chart: https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

.5mg of K is roughly equivalent to 10mg of Valium, so if I’m doing the math correctly, 1mg K = 20mg Valium. This is a rough equivalency and conversion tables vary, so if 15mg works okay for you, that much less to taper.

 

You will likely be able to cut more at first, then less as you go down in dose because the percentage of daily dose goes down, so the cut size goes down too.

 

I’d make the crossover first, make sure everything is relatively smooth going and then start a taper.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Challis

 

Hi Challis!

 

I did a fast taper from klonopin 1 mg, I didn’t know anything about benzos and I didn’t know what I was doing. I reinstated 1,75 mg and I couldn’t stabilize. After two months I made two really small cuts 3%, and it was terrible. Is it possible to switch to Diazepam and get stable after this two small cuts or it’s two late? I’m almost nonfunctional and the withdrawal simptomps are terrible and I don’t have a stable baseline. What do you think. Crossover to Diszepam can help? I have to stabilize.

Thank you

Enikô

 

Hello,

 

You are most likely feeling withdrawal from the fast taper, klonopin is a very strong benzo.  Reinstatement sometimes works and sometimes does not.  Am I reading this correct, you reinstated 2 months ago?

 

Changing to diazepam might make the reductions easier since it's potency is much less than klonopin and the half life longer.  However, it could take you a while to get stable on the diazepam.  I personally found it too difficult to taper from clonazepam (klonopin) so I did make the change to diazepam.

 

pianogirl 

[[Ro...]]

Hi,

 

I use this equivalency chart: https://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm

.5mg of K is roughly equivalent to 10mg of Valium, so if I’m doing the math correctly, 1mg K = 20mg Valium. This is a rough equivalency and conversion tables vary, so if 15mg works okay for you, that much less to taper.

 

You will likely be able to cut more at first, then less as you go down in dose because the percentage of daily dose goes down, so the cut size goes down too.

 

I’d make the crossover first, make sure everything is relatively smooth going and then start a taper.

 

Hope that helps!

 

Challis

 

Hi Challis!

 

I did a fast taper from klonopin 1 mg, I didn’t know anything about benzos and I didn’t know what I was doing. I reinstated 1,75 mg and I couldn’t stabilize. After two months I made two really small cuts 3%, and it was terrible. Is it possible to switch to Diazepam and get stable after this two small cuts or it’s two late? I’m almost nonfunctional and the withdrawal simptomps are terrible and I don’t have a stable baseline. What do you think. Crossover to Diszepam can help? I have to stabilize.

Thank you

Enikô

 

Hello,

 

You are most likely feeling withdrawal from the fast taper, klonopin is a very strong benzo.  Reinstatement sometimes works and sometimes does not.  Am I reading this correct, you reinstated 2 months ago?

 

Changing to diazepam might make the reductions easier since it's potency is much less than klonopin and the half life longer.  However, it could take you a while to get stable on the diazepam.  I personally found it too difficult to taper from clonazepam (klonopin) so I did make the change to diazepam.

 

pianogirl 

 

Hi Piinogirl!

 

Thank you for your answer!

Just one more question: Is it possible to crossover just one dose of Klonopin and to see how does it work? Could it help to taper and get some stabilization ?

Thank you:

Enikô

 

[[be...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

[[Ro...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Thank you!

I have a fear, that I can’t metabolise the Valium. I’ve tried to take a few pills occasionally, some weeks ago and I didn’t feel anything. What do you think?

[[be...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Thank you!

I have a fear, that I can’t metabolise the Valium. I’ve tried to take a few pills occasionally, some weeks ago and I didn’t feel anything. What do you think?

 

I don’t know what to say. Have you had this problem before? Valium is different than other benzos. It takes a while for it to get in your system. Unlike Xanax which hits you pretty hard pretty quickly. You may want to consider giving it more time.

[[pi...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Thank you!

I have a fear, that I can’t metabolise the Valium. I’ve tried to take a few pills occasionally, some weeks ago and I didn’t feel anything. What do you think?

 

I agree with Betsy.  You likely won't feel the effect of valium right away, it can take a while for it to take a week. Occasional dosing probably won't help, it needs to be taking regularly to keep the levels in your bloodstream consistent.

 

PG 

[[bu...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Thank you!

I have a fear, that I can’t metabolise the Valium. I’ve tried to take a few pills occasionally, some weeks ago and I didn’t feel anything. What do you think?

 

I agree with Betsy.  You likely won't feel the effect of valium right away, it can take a while for it to take a week. Occasional dosing probably won't help, it needs to be taking regularly to keep the levels in your bloodstream consistent.

 

PG 

 

Yes, you typically need to take diazepam 7-8 days before it begins to have real effect.

[[Ro...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Thank you!

I have a fear, that I can’t metabolise the Valium. I’ve tried to take a few pills occasionally, some weeks ago and I didn’t feel anything. What do you think?

 

I agree with Betsy.  You likely won't feel the effect of valium right away, it can take a while for it to take a week. Occasional dosing probably won't help, it needs to be taking regularly to keep the levels in your bloodstream consistent.

 

PG 

 

Yes, you typically need to take diazepam 7-8 days before it begins to have real effect.

 

Thank you! What do you think. Wich is the best way to crossover first 0,25 mg klonopin. To take 5 mg diazepam and quit the Klonopin or you have to wait a few days ?

 

The other question: Ok that dazepam needs 7-8 days to build everything in yor system, but I didn’t feel anything after taking a pill. Nothing.

[[pi...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Thank you!

I have a fear, that I can’t metabolise the Valium. I’ve tried to take a few pills occasionally, some weeks ago and I didn’t feel anything. What do you think?

 

I agree with Betsy.  You likely won't feel the effect of valium right away, it can take a while for it to take a week. Occasional dosing probably won't help, it needs to be taking regularly to keep the levels in your bloodstream consistent.

 

PG 

 

Yes, you typically need to take diazepam 7-8 days before it begins to have real effect.

 

Thank you! What do you think. Wich is the best way to crossover first 0,25 mg klonopin. To take 5 mg diazepam and quit the Klonopin or you have to wait a few days ?

 

The other question: Ok that dazepam needs 7-8 days to build everything in yor system, but I didn’t feel anything after taking a pill. Nothing.

 

You might feel nothing with just one pill. The potency of diazepam is much less compared to klonopin.  For myself, it was two weeks before I felt stable on diazepam.

 

Normally, a crossover should be done smoothly, Betsy can give you more information on this. My doctor didn't know much about tapering and neither did I, we were learning together because I had not found this forum at that time.

 

PG

[[bu...]]

There are K to V crossover schedules in the Ashton manual.

[[Ro...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Thank you!

I have a fear, that I can’t metabolise the Valium. I’ve tried to take a few pills occasionally, some weeks ago and I didn’t feel anything. What do you think?

 

I agree with Betsy.  You likely won't feel the effect of valium right away, it can take a while for it to take a week. Occasional dosing probably won't help, it needs to be taking regularly to keep the levels in your bloodstream consistent.

 

PG 

 

Yes, you typically need to take diazepam 7-8 days before it begins to have real effect.

 

Thank you! What do you think. Wich is the best way to crossover first 0,25 mg klonopin. To take 5 mg diazepam and quit the Klonopin or you have to wait a few days ?

 

The other question: Ok that dazepam needs 7-8 days to build everything in yor system, but I didn’t feel anything after taking a pill. Nothing.

 

You might feel nothing with just one pill. The potency of diazepam is much less compared to klonopin.  For myself, it was two weeks before I felt stable on diazepam.

 

Normally, a crossover should be done smoothly, Betsy can give you more information on this. My doctor didn't know much about tapering and neither did I, we were learning together because I had not found this forum at that time.

 

PG

 

Thank you PG!

 

My doctor is the same. I just don’t want to make more mistakes. I’d like being functional on this long way and it’s really hard now and this is just the beginning.

[[pi...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Thank you!

I have a fear, that I can’t metabolise the Valium. I’ve tried to take a few pills occasionally, some weeks ago and I didn’t feel anything. What do you think?

 

I agree with Betsy.  You likely won't feel the effect of valium right away, it can take a while for it to take a week. Occasional dosing probably won't help, it needs to be taking regularly to keep the levels in your bloodstream consistent.

 

PG 

 

Yes, you typically need to take diazepam 7-8 days before it begins to have real effect.

 

Thank you! What do you think. Wich is the best way to crossover first 0,25 mg klonopin. To take 5 mg diazepam and quit the Klonopin or you have to wait a few days ?

 

The other question: Ok that dazepam needs 7-8 days to build everything in yor system, but I didn’t feel anything after taking a pill. Nothing.

 

You might feel nothing with just one pill. The potency of diazepam is much less compared to klonopin.  For myself, it was two weeks before I felt stable on diazepam.

 

Normally, a crossover should be done smoothly, Betsy can give you more information on this. My doctor didn't know much about tapering and neither did I, we were learning together because I had not found this forum at that time.

 

PG

 

Thank you PG!

 

My doctor is the same. I just don’t want to make more mistakes. I’d like being functional on this long way and it’s really hard now and this is just the beginning.

 

We did use the Ashton Manual for my taper but we had to reformulate the reductions due to my low dose.

 

I'm glad you are functional, I taught throughout my taper and recovery, with a few days off here and there.

 

PG 

[[be...]]

I’m not sure what Ashton recommends as it’s been forever. But what I did was take 5 mg of Valium, drop .25 mg klonopin, wait a week and do this same. Now builder is right to double check with Ashton because I was on such a whopping dose of klonopin I could have done it all at once and been fine. I still had quite a bit of klonopin in my system. I think it took me four months for the finished partial cross over.

[[Bi...]]

My goal is to get off Klonopin. I've done this 2X in the past and both were brutal. And I reinstated.

 

I'd like to switch to Valium. 

 

If I understand the conversion, 1mg of Klonopin = 15mg of Valium. Because I've hard such a hard time in the past, I'm planning on taking this as slowly as possible.

 

Goal: Start at 15mg and reduce by 1mg every 2 weeks. Holding when necessary.

 

Does this make sense? Best case is I'm off in 30 weeks. But maybe it's a year. Or two. Or five. Or fifty.

 

No problemo. As long as I'm going slowly and that I never get to the point where I get so light-headed that I can't function. That's what always does me in.

 

Has anybody had luck with this approach?

 

I think Klonopin is so hard to stop because 1mg is such a tiny pill to try to successfully cut into even tinier pieces.

 

And how should I ask my Doctor to write the script? For eight 2mg tablets?

 

Thanks much in advance!

 

E

 

Hello E, I think 1 mg of K is 20 mg of Valium.  Valium may really slow down your taper if you do a conversion at a high level.  This is why Ashton doesn't recommend Valium until you get down to the 5 mg level because Valium comes with its own set of problems since it's a skeletal muscle relaxant and Klonopin is not.  This gives high doses of Valium more addictive properties.

I have seen some people taper the K down to 1/4 MG before jumping onto 5 mg  Valium with good results also.

Also Klonopin has a 48 hour half-life making it fairly good choice for a tapering drug in the first place.

Valium is probably not going to be any easier to taper than Klonopin.  The only thing that really helps is going slow,  slow oh so slowly!

Some people here like Bart and Builder and a few others tapered strictly by symptoms and managed to come off these drugs without too much discomfort even though it took years.

You will hear the word slow taper a lot around here but really give that word SLOW extra meaning.  If you're suffering you don't understand the word slow to the extent you probably should.  This is not a race and if you give it the time required suffering can be kept to a minimum.  Slow brain change is the best and the safest especially since the brain does not heal at the speed of a taper and heals in leaps and jumps which really have to be the roadmap for mapping taper speed.

One trick I used was to hold until I actually felt sedation from a dose telling me that it was time for another cut.  Sometimes I held for months and months waiting for that signal but it always came,,,,, eventually.

Making a cut while still in agony from the last cut was more painful to me than watching the last episode of the "game of thrones"

[[Ro...]]

Yes you can cross over partially. This is what I did with good success.

Hi benzogirl!

Could you help me how did you do your partial crossover from klonopin to valium? I’ m afraid of suffering, but you did it.

Please help!