Symptoms from cutting small doses? (couple questions)

[[oc...]]

At the beginning of May I was on .026 (weight) of xanax and I have cut it to .011. Thats around 60 percent I think.

 

Now this amount was not a lot I had cut it down from .113 from Nov.

 

But I am wondering  can you still have large amounts of WD symptoms when cutting these small amounts even if you are cutting them by big percentages?

 

It seems that these small amount of medicine would not give you large amounts of WD even if you did cut them by large percentages but maybe its all relative.

 

The last few days the brain fog has been horrible the anxiety has been ramped up. I am always worried that its something worse.

 

I also made a couple small cuts to my other medication over the month.

 

Any input would be appreciated.

 

I believe im on .0478 mg of the xanax now. 

[[Jo...]]

Ocean34. I believe the answer is yes. It doesn’t matter what ones current dose is. What matters is the relative percentage cut. In fact it is highly recommended that as we get to a low dose we slow down the cuts to a lower percentage (one-third of the prior cut rate). Please see the discussion of the Attenuated Phase in Jim Hawk’s of B.B. Application at www.benzo.alwaysdata.net. to get a full understanding of this.

 

Best wishes!

[[la...]]

That's one theory although I am feeling better and better the lower I go and I have increased my taper rate.

I too am on Xanax.

Ashton recommends cutting 1mg of V every 10-14 days and technically you are at < 1mg of the V equivalent.

You are at such low dose I would say you are likely not going to feel any better or worse once you jump.

There's simply not enough chemical in your system anymore to do much and your system is feeling it.

I'm no expert. I just agree that the super low doses are only aggravating your CNS as Bella Amis consistently states.

 

Congrats on nearing the end. 

[[oc...]]

Ocean34. I believe the answer is yes. It doesn’t matter what ones current dose is. What matters is the relative percentage cut. In fact it is highly recommended that as we get to a low dose we slow down the cuts to a lower percentage (one-third of the prior cut rate). Please see the discussion of the Attenuated Phase in Jim Hawk’s of B.B. Application at www.benzo.alwaysdata.net. to get a full understanding of this.

 

Best wishes!

 

ok thanks, I will look at the link and read it. I am hoping you are right that it is relative to the amount that we are currently on. I have made big cuts this month but for a while i was feeling a lot better but the last couple weeks I have really been feeling out of it.

 

I really didnt want to be stringing this xanax taper out for so long knowing that i have another taper to complete right after.

 

Edit: where is the discussion? I see the link for the taper table but not for a discussion. Sorry, thanks.

[[oc...]]

That's one theory although I am feeling better and better the lower I go and I have increased my taper rate.

I too am on Xanax.

Ashton recommends cutting 1mg of V every 10-14 days and technically you are at < 1mg of the V equivalent.

You are at such low dose I would say you are likely not going to feel any better or worse once you jump.

There's simply not enough chemical in your system anymore to do much and your system is feeling it.

I'm no expert. I just agree that the super low doses are only aggravating your CNS as Bella Amis consistently states.

 

Congrats on nearing the end. 

 

Well although the xanax is almost at its end i still have another taper to complete which will take quite a while.

 

I thought about jumping after a few more cuts.  But who knows it could be the second medication. I also worry about long term side effects from taking this stuff for so long.

 

And you feel as if there is not enough xanax to acutally be making a difference at this point? only to aggravate it? That might be something to think about. maybe i can make the jump sooner than later.

 

thanks

[[mo...]]

Yes you can definitelt feel symptoms at low doses. I’m only reducing at .001 per day and I feel each cut. I could jump where I’m at at .004 but I’ve been functional and able to work so far (barely) and if it’s not broke I won’t fix it. I’ve also been sleeping for the most part through my taper so I don’t want to shock my system somehow. Hopefully I’m not aggravating my CNS like someone suggested. Interesting how some feel better at low doses and others feel worse. I seem to feel about the same as earlier in my taper and the symptoms seem to change from day to day although some are constant. But still barable. I’ve completed my taper a bit more rapidly than some suggest but I’ve followed more of a symptom based plan, didn’t want to go slow if my body could tolerate ending quicker. Hope this helps.

[[oc...]]

Yes you can definitelt feel symptoms at low doses. I’m only reducing at .001 per day and I feel each cut. I could jump where I’m at at .004 but I’ve been functional and able to work so far (barely) and if it’s not broke I won’t fix it. I’ve also been sleeping for the most part through my taper so I don’t want to shock my system somehow. Hopefully I’m not aggravating my CNS like someone suggested. Interesting how some feel better at low doses and others feel worse. I seem to feel about the same as earlier in my taper and the symptoms seem to change from day to day although some are constant. But still barable. I’ve completed my taper a bit more rapidly than some suggest but I’ve followed more of a symptom based plan, didn’t want to go slow if my body could tolerate ending quicker. Hope this helps.

 

 

yeah it helps. I appreciate you taking the time you reply.

 

I have been reducing as fast as possible as well. I want off this stuff as possible. I hate the thought of having long term side effects. Hopefulyl everyone on here will get off their medication and heal soon.

 

thanks

[[la...]]

That's one theory although I am feeling better and better the lower I go and I have increased my taper rate.

I too am on Xanax.

Ashton recommends cutting 1mg of V every 10-14 days and technically you are at < 1mg of the V equivalent.

You are at such low dose I would say you are likely not going to feel any better or worse once you jump.

There's simply not enough chemical in your system anymore to do much and your system is feeling it.

I'm no expert. I just agree that the super low doses are only aggravating your CNS as Bella Amis consistently states.

 

Congrats on nearing the end. 

 

Well although the xanax is almost at its end i still have another taper to complete which will take quite a while.

 

I thought about jumping after a few more cuts.  But who knows it could be the second medication. I also worry about long term side effects from taking this stuff for so long.

 

And you feel as if there is not enough xanax to acutally be making a difference at this point? only to aggravate it? That might be something to think about. maybe i can make the jump sooner than later.

 

thanks

 

Since Ashton is the only person who has actually conducted real studies on Benzos, I tend to trust her. You are so near to the end of your taper I can't see the point in holding or reducing at a lesser rate. I've messaged back and forth with a few Xanax jumpers post taper and they all say they are fine with minimal, tolerable symptoms. We are all different but I try not to compare myself with those taking other Benzos because Xanax has it's very own behavior (more powerful, shorter acting) and is quite different than the longer acting kind. Xanax is completely out of the body in 24 hours. If you are taking .04mg/day, are you splitting that dose? As Ashton says, at this point you are simply staving off withdrawal symptoms. Ashton never says we are going to be completely symptom free at the end of the taper, she says minimal and tolerable symptoms. Don't let the symptoms alarm you. Keep moving forward and get off the poison.

[[oc...]]

That's one theory although I am feeling better and better the lower I go and I have increased my taper rate.

I too am on Xanax.

Ashton recommends cutting 1mg of V every 10-14 days and technically you are at < 1mg of the V equivalent.

You are at such low dose I would say you are likely not going to feel any better or worse once you jump.

There's simply not enough chemical in your system anymore to do much and your system is feeling it.

I'm no expert. I just agree that the super low doses are only aggravating your CNS as Bella Amis consistently states.

 

Congrats on nearing the end. 

 

Well although the xanax is almost at its end i still have another taper to complete which will take quite a while.

 

I thought about jumping after a few more cuts.  But who knows it could be the second medication. I also worry about long term side effects from taking this stuff for so long.

 

And you feel as if there is not enough xanax to acutally be making a difference at this point? only to aggravate it? That might be something to think about. maybe i can make the jump sooner than later.

 

thanks

 

Since Ashton is the only person who has actually conducted real studies on Benzos, I tend to trust her. You are so near to the end of your taper I can't see the point in holding or reducing at a lesser rate. I've messaged back and forth with a few Xanax jumpers post taper and they all say they are fine with minimal, tolerable symptoms. We are all different but I try not to compare myself with those taking other Benzos because Xanax has it's very own behavior (more powerful, shorter acting) and is quite different than the longer acting kind. Xanax is completely out of the body in 24 hours. If you are taking .04mg/day, are you splitting that dose? As Ashton says, at this point you are simply staving off withdrawal symptoms. Ashton never says we are going to be completely symptom free at the end of the taper, she says minimal and tolerable symptoms. Don't let the symptoms alarm you. Keep moving forward and get off the poison.

 

No im not splitting it. I take it at night.

I dont know how im staving off WD symptoms when I have symptoms everyday. I thought i was avoiding them by tapering down. But I am taking into consideration what you are saying about jumping and getting off of it since its such a low dose.

 

I have just tried to be careful because its not the only medication im on. I also am trying to not to have anymore insomnia which last night I didnt sleep a moment so Im pretty frustrated.

 

Thanks for your input

[[Ca...]]

Hey Ocean,

 

I multi tapered valium with other meds and found I had to go very slow at the end.. I let the worst or most volitile of my symptoms guide me gently off, and it worked great.. Jump was much like the prior cuts.. Quite a number of us have to deviate from ashtons thoughts for various reasons, and thats just the point, -we are all different in body, situation and history...  Ashton actually does cater to this throught her work... Her guide is general and written as such for the majority, Imo...

 

Perhaps its possible to use your recent tapering history to give you a bit of a guide as to where you sit in the mix..?? I would guess that most of us that have to go particularly slow have a fair idea of our sensitivity by the time we get to these ashton suggested jump doses.. 

There certainally isnt a "one size fits all"

Sorry if this doesnt translate to X so well, but im not sure that receptor healing rates vary much between various benzos...

Im not saying you need to drag things out, but its a viable option that has worked well for many when needed...

 

Wishing you the best...

 

[[Gr...]]

I definitely fell all the little cuts at the end of my taper.  I ended up just powering through them at the very end, just cause I wanted to finally be done.  Though I still think I went pretty slow overall. 

[[oc...]]

Hey Ocean,

 

I multi tapered valium with other meds and found I had to go very slow at the end.. I let the worst or most volitile of my symptoms guide me gently off, and it worked great.. Jump was much like the prior cuts.. Quite a number of us have to deviate from ashtons thoughts for various reasons, and thats just the point, -we are all different in body, situation and history...  Ashton actually does cater to this throught her work... Her guide is general and written as such for the majority, Imo...

 

Perhaps its possible to use your recent tapering history to give you a bit of a guide as to where you sit in the mix..?? I would guess that most of us that have to go particularly slow have a fair idea of our sensitivity by the time we get to these ashton suggested jump doses.. 

There certainally isnt a "one size fits all"

Sorry if this doesnt translate to X so well, but im not sure that receptor healing rates vary much between various benzos...

Im not saying you need to drag things out, but its a viable option that has worked well for many when needed...

 

Wishing you the best...

 

Well i never really followed the ashton manual.

 

I have been dry cutting and just reducing it when I felt that I was able to. Maybe that was my mistake not following the ashton manual. I know that as i got into the small dosages the cut became larger in their percentages.

 

So i am at this point now where i dont know whether to jump or to keep cutting. Some say that  a small amount might be aggravating my CNS and others say it might need to take it slower. so i really dont know which way to go.

 

I appreciate the reply tho.

 

If you have anymore advice I would appreciate it. you seem to have been here a while. I am now on .011 of xanax (weight). I dont know if I should go ahead and jump of it or hold and keep cutting.

 

Any more insight would be appreciated. thanks.

[[oc...]]

I definitely fell all the little cuts at the end of my taper.  I ended up just powering through them at the very end, just cause I wanted to finally be done.  Though I still think I went pretty slow overall.

 

 

Well, I have gone rather fast on the xanax because i was a short term user of that and I have to get to finishing the taper of the other medication. I didnt want to turn the xanax taper into a year and half when I only took it for 3 or 4 months.

 

And now i really dont know where the WD symptoms are coming from. They could be coming from the horrible taper plan the doctor had me on from the first medication back in the fall or they could be coming from the xanax taper.

 

Thanks for the reply tho.

[[mo...]]

I can definitely understand the confusion Ocean. Hard to say what’s causing the symptoms especially with other drugs involved. I would think those would play a part, you’re putting a lot on your CNS, not that you have a choice. I know I felt the cuts all the way down it just depends on how your CNS will react. I think I’m just sensitive to meds, always have been. Of how I’m feeling today post jump is any indication of if I made the right choice not following the Ashton manual then I say don’t follow it and take the time you need to reduce. But, no telling how I’ll feel in days time will let you know. Maybe I only prolonged my suffering? Who really knows. You could always try to jump then reinstate if you need to. I thought about that many times but ultimately didn’t want to take the chance. Wasn’t sure what to expect today but I I woke up  and did some housework and made home made pancakes for the first time since 2018. Hope this lasts. I know you’ll make the right decision.

[[oc...]]

I can definitely understand the confusion Ocean. Hard to say what’s causing the symptoms especially with other drugs involved. I would think those would play a part, you’re putting a lot on your CNS, not that you have a choice. I know I felt the cuts all the way down it just depends on how your CNS will react. I think I’m just sensitive to meds, always have been. Of how I’m feeling today post jump is any indication of if I made the right choice not following the Ashton manual then I say don’t follow it and take the time you need to reduce. But, no telling how I’ll feel in days time will let you know. Maybe I only prolonged my suffering? Who really knows. You could always try to jump then reinstate if you need to. I thought about that many times but ultimately didn’t want to take the chance. Wasn’t sure what to expect today but I I woke up  and did some housework and made home made pancakes for the first time since 2018. Hope this lasts. I know you’ll make the right decision.

 

 

Well I appreciate the comment. I hope that everything works out for you and you can move on with everything and not have to worry about these meds anymore.

 

Yeah I have to decide in the next little bit about what im going to do.

 

Good luck to you.

 

[[CM...]]

Ocean34. I believe the answer is yes. It doesn’t matter what ones current dose is. What matters is the relative percentage cut. In fact it is highly recommended that as we get to a low dose we slow down the cuts to a lower percentage (one-third of the prior cut rate). Please see the discussion of the Attenuated Phase in Jim Hawk’s of B.B. Application at www.benzo.alwaysdata.net. to get a full understanding of this.

 

Best wishes!

 

John what percentage do u recommend cutting at when u get down to 3mg V? Things seem to be getting harder now for me.

[[Ca...]]

Hey Ocean,

 

I multi tapered valium with other meds and found I had to go very slow at the end.. I let the worst or most volitile of my symptoms guide me gently off, and it worked great.. Jump was much like the prior cuts.. Quite a number of us have to deviate from ashtons thoughts for various reasons, and thats just the point, -we are all different in body, situation and history...  Ashton actually does cater to this throught her work... Her guide is general and written as such for the majority, Imo...

 

Perhaps its possible to use your recent tapering history to give you a bit of a guide as to where you sit in the mix..?? I would guess that most of us that have to go particularly slow have a fair idea of our sensitivity by the time we get to these ashton suggested jump doses.. 

There certainally isnt a "one size fits all"

Sorry if this doesnt translate to X so well, but im not sure that receptor healing rates vary much between various benzos...

Im not saying you need to drag things out, but its a viable option that has worked well for many when needed...

 

Wishing you the best...

 

Well i never really followed the ashton manual.

 

I have been dry cutting and just reducing it when I felt that I was able to. Maybe that was my mistake not following the ashton manual. I know that as i got into the small dosages the cut became larger in their percentages.

 

So i am at this point now where i dont know whether to jump or to keep cutting. Some say that  a small amount might be aggravating my CNS and others say it might need to take it slower. so i really dont know which way to go.

 

I appreciate the reply tho.

 

If you have anymore advice I would appreciate it. you seem to have been here a while. I am now on .011 of xanax (weight). I dont know if I should go ahead and jump of it or hold and keep cutting.

 

Any more insight would be appreciated. thanks.

well, you asked.. lol

 

All manuels, tables, percentages, aside, -Its how your body responds to your reducing doses that counts, -more, how it heals or reaches a viable homiostasis state...  At very low dose, thats the transition to functioning on its own chemistry, not just at a steady state, but with the constan flux of living.. Day/night, stress, emotions, dietry and hormonal fluctuations, etc..

Thats ok, the body is pretty amazing at this stuff...

 

But in your mix you have other relative meds that have for a long time affected the same systems as the added benzo... So the shorter benzo use might not be so isolated as one could think..

While I have used Valproate, my main "other" meds were different members of the same family.. So I did a bit of skim reading...

Obviously they are not benzos, but im not sure how well our bodies know that...  They all work on Gabba, gated channels and NMDA etc, and who knows what other adaptations our nurochemistry has made in order to compensate over the years, and perhaps even moreso in our WD process..??

 

I imagine you are aware of these connections between these meds, thus the addition of the benzo to aid WD.. So I wont go too far into something I dont have the specifics on... -Nor that great of an understanding on...

 

In the end its time...

One could jump and hope the body makes a clean transition back to homiostatic, hopefully without taking short cuts as it attempts to maintain crytical function (more of a problem for some than others it seems)..

Or, one could slowly tease the last of the meds out in hope that it aids in the transition, and that a calmer CNS promotes more timely and perhaps wholistic healing...

 

Sadly there are plenty more additional factors that can be involved and need consideration, Which is probably why we are all here pretty well still in the dark.. In general terms, no one is wrong, and no one is right, Its just what "is" for each particular persons situation, and often thats a guess at best..

 

Personally, I feel one of the most important things is often a persons own "gut feelings" as to their path...

 

Just some thoughts, but I hope they help a little... -Our situations actually arent so different I thought..