Intro

[[me...]]

Hi!

 

I'm joining as im interested in tapering off this poison as you may have guessed. 

 

I took clonazepam for multiple years (7 or so) at roughly .5-1mg per day.  about 1.5 yrs ago i switched over to valium at 10mg/day and did a doctor prescribed rapid taper (rapid to us not him) where i was dropping 1mg per week.  Same time i was tapering off an ssri (lexapro) at a fairly rapid pace as well.  All h3ll broke loose and i restarted the valium at 4mg per day and prozac at 20mg/day.

 

i'm currently at 3mg/day liquid diazepam and 12mf/day liquid prozac.

 

I'm here to figure out the next best step forward whether it be micro taper, switching from the liquid to pill and micro taper, etc.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[[me...]]

Welcome to BenzoBuddies!  We are glad you decided to join us.  You'll find a lot of support and information on this forum, which is the only one of its kind online.

 

For those starting a taper, we generally recommend starting out at a rate of 5 to 10% every 10-14 days, then adjusting the taper to suit your own needs.  Note: very short term users may be able to taper faster.

 

Withdrawal symptoms, which vary widely but commonly include anxiety and insomnia, often occur during a taper, but these are temporary and will get better in time.  In general, first tapers are easier, but cold turkeys or multiple withdrawals may be more severe and longer lasting.  Here are a few links to get you started:

 

The Ashton Manual, a concise reference for tapering and symptom issues.  Chapter III contains excellent descriptions of common symptoms such as muscle issues, anxiety, and hyper-awareness

 

General Taper Plans

 

Once again, welcome!

[[me...]]

Thank you so much.  i read your success story, well done!  when i read stories of folks coming off of benzo's or ssri's or psych drugs in general, knowing they pain they endure to get there, it really does give me goose bumps.  The feeling i get reminds me of what i feel when seeing what folks go through in a movie like saving private ryan or hacksaw ridge.  Not the same obviously but each it's own story of courage and tenacity and sheer will to overcome.  Bravo again and thanks for the warm welcome.

[[Ma...]]

Hi!

 

I'm joining as im interested in tapering off this poison as you may have guessed. 

 

I took clonazepam for multiple years (7 or so) at roughly .5-1mg per day.  about 1.5 yrs ago i switched over to valium at 10mg/day and did a doctor prescribed rapid taper (rapid to us not him) where i was dropping 1mg per week.  Same time i was tapering off an ssri (lexapro) at a fairly rapid pace as well.  All h3ll broke loose and i restarted the valium at 4mg per day and prozac at 20mg/day.

 

i'm currently at 3mg/day liquid diazepam and 12mf/day liquid prozac.

 

I'm here to figure out the next best step forward whether it be micro taper, switching from the liquid to pill and micro taper, etc.

 

Thanks!

Hey Methuselah, welcome to bb, lots of people here with a lot of experience so you are in the right place.  I am not really familiar with coming off an ssri and a benzo.  I have done a lot of reading however, is the ssri helping you feel better?  If it does, why not hold it and just taper the benzo first, once off the benzo, hold awhile to stabilize and then taper the ssri?  You are already on liquid diazepam, why would you want to change to pills and liquid?  I am sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure I understand.  Mary 💜

[[me...]]

Hi Mary,

 

Thanks for the response.  I'm staying on the SSRI for now, coming off of those is a whole different situation and i am tapering the benzo first. 

 

As far as moving from liquid to pill, i read somewhere people have trouble with the liquid valium, can't recall exactly what kind of trouble, so i figured i'd throw that out as an option. 

 

Im thinking of doing the micro taper liquid throw away method (don't know the acronym) over 150 or 300 days.  it's only 3mg so it just seems like i could do it quicker but i know dose alone doesn't necessarily correlate to the ability to quickly taper.  I've been on rougly 3 mg for probably a year now.

 

i've been thru some personal stuff and have been drinking (binge) lately and that doesn't appear to help anything at all, only the night of.  I've searched here and found that alcohol is one of the last things you want to add to the mix when coming off benzo's so i need to find the willpower to cut that out of the equation as well.

 

Thanks again for any thoughts.

[[Ma...]]

Hi Mary,

 

Thanks for the response.  I'm staying on the SSRI for now, coming off of those is a whole different situation and i am tapering the benzo first. 

 

As far as moving from liquid to pill, i read somewhere people have trouble with the liquid valium, can't recall exactly what kind of trouble, so i figured i'd throw that out as an option. 

 

Im thinking of doing the micro taper liquid throw away method (don't know the acronym) over 150 or 300 days.  it's only 3mg so it just seems like i could do it quicker but i know dose alone doesn't necessarily correlate to the ability to quickly taper.  I've been on rougly 3 mg for probably a year now.

 

i've been thru some personal stuff and have been drinking (binge) lately and that doesn't appear to help anything at all, only the night of.  I've searched here and found that alcohol is one of the last things you want to add to the mix when coming off benzo's so i need to find the willpower to cut that out of the equation as well.

 

Thanks again for any thoughts.

 

Yes, definitely stay off the alcohol  . Do me a favor so we can all see your history.  Go back to Home Page, to your profile , click on it and look down, you will see place for your drug history.  Fill that out so we can see the whole picture and give you the best advice possible.  Glad you are only tapering benzo . Mary 💜

[[me...]]

Thanks again Mary.  I put the history in my signature, i'm guessing that's what you meant?

[[me...]]

to put htis level of detail in my sig would be rather difficult, but here is my current situation.

 

I started to taper down from 3mg via utiliztion of liquid diazepam starting in early Feb.  I got down to 1.175mg 2x per day (2.35mg total) with some issues that were overcome over the next two months by end of March.  These issue include agoraphobia i'd never felt before, getting through panic without rescue dose (never had panic before either), standard w/d symptoms waxing and waning windows and waves whatever.  Personal issues hit i started to drink quite a bit and basically destroyed all progress.  I can have a few beers and be ok but after a night of heavy drinking (8 drinks) or especially consecutive nights i'd have to take like 6-8mg valium to feel like i wasn't going to die (heart palpitations, heart racing, anxiety, deep depression, so on).  over the next few days i was able to decrease my dose back to roughly 3mg which is where i sit now, more like 2.75. 

 

All that said my question is this:  Am i screwed in that withdrawal has already started and there is no way for me to normalize to "enjoy" my summer and then start a liquid throw away taper after summer is over.  If i'm honest with myself, seems like even before i started to taper hangover days were brutal and i'd have to updose the benzo.  I know this sounds selfish and stupid but i want to be able to sit and pool and have beers and not have the next day, more like week, be a total nightmare.  perhaps i just have to put that on hold for a while, i know that is the right thing to do but i need a break from this mess.  I would add that this mess as i call it has been going on for 4-5 years after since lexapro died on me and i moved to paxil, then remeron, and so on.

 

thanks for any input

 

M

[[An...]]

ATM, I would not drink anymore like Mary said until you have gotten off the benzos and have recovered. I am not saying you will never be able to enjoy moderate amounts of alcohol again. Some ppl find that after they get off benzos and have recovered, they can enjoy a drink or two and not have it bring back sx's.

[[me...]]

ATM, I would not drink anymore like Mary said until you have gotten off the benzos and have recovered. I am not saying you will never be able to enjoy moderate amounts of alcohol again. Some ppl find that after they get off benzos and have recovered, they can enjoy a drink or two and not have it bring back sx's.

 

Understood and thanks!  The question is what if i just hold off on the taper for a few months then start then cut alcohol?  I think it's probably pointless to ask and i need to just accept the fact that until i get off benzos i'm more or less out of luck here regardless.

[[Ma...]]

to put htis level of detail in my sig would be rather difficult, but here is my current situation.

 

I started to taper down from 3mg via utiliztion of liquid diazepam starting in early Feb.  I got down to 1.175mg 2x per day (2.35mg total) with some issues that were overcome over the next two months by end of March.  These issue include agoraphobia i'd never felt before, getting through panic without rescue dose (never had panic before either), standard w/d symptoms waxing and waning windows and waves whatever.  Personal issues hit i started to drink quite a bit and basically destroyed all progress.  I can have a few beers and be ok but after a night of heavy drinking (8 drinks) or especially consecutive nights i'd have to take like 6-8mg valium to feel like i wasn't going to die (heart palpitations, heart racing, anxiety, deep depression, so on).  over the next few days i was able to decrease my dose back to roughly 3mg which is where i sit now, more like 2.75. 

 

All that said my question is this:  Am i screwed in that withdrawal has already started and there is no way for me to normalize to "enjoy" my summer and then start a liquid throw away taper after summer is over.  If i'm honest with myself, seems like even before i started to taper hangover days were brutal and i'd have to updose the benzo.  I know this sounds selfish and stupid but i want to be able to sit and pool and have beers and not have the next day, more like week, be a total nightmare.  perhaps i just have to put that on hold for a while, i know that is the right thing to do but i need a break from this mess.  I would add that this mess as i call it has been going on for 4-5 years after since lexapro died on me and i moved to paxil, then remeron, and so on.

 

thanks for any input

 

M

 

Can I ask why these meds were prescribed?  I don't know if you are in withdrawal or tolerance . When these meds were being changed out one after the other, was the Dr ever making you crossover slowly or just stopping one and starting the next one without a break in between?  If the liquid diazepam was going to be a problem for you, you would have already known, now that doesn't mean you can't change over to a daily liquid micro taper.  I have to ask, are you really serious about tapering?  I can tell you, you are not going to get to enjoy your summer imo.  I think you are going to have a pretty rough time, I am not going to lie to you.  I am not a Dr but you have had a varied drug history. Mary

 

[[Ca...]]

Hi Methuselah, -Welcome..

 

Great job on the sig btw... -and members will know to check your intro for further details too...

 

I realy just wanted to encourage you, and gently support member Mary's thoughts...

 

Not realy my meds, but the picture is familiar, and I just urge you to give your situation seriously and timely consideration... The fact that your here, and I assume having a good read, will possibly be later defined as a life changing moment..  -not to sound overly dramatic.. -But not not to either..

I also think it likely, that you will have some good insight to offer other members too, -when your ready... -and thats always welcome, for sure..!!

 

My best wishes as you find your path forwards...

Again, welcome..

 

[[me...]]

Mary, i attempted to quote you but when posted it quoted the entire thing so i skipped it, but i did my best to address your most recent post below

 

I started prozac when i was 17 i believe.  OCD started when i was 11 or 12 pretty bad at times, mostly "Pure O" meaning the illness mostly manifested in obsessions around a certain theme and compulsions (checking the door knob 50 times) were minimal.  OCD has transformed over time to some form of GAD with OCD peppered in for good measure with god knows what else mixed in from so many years on meds and potential side effects and so on.  I don't really know what my baseline is at this point and that's what i'm trying to figure out via getting off meds.

 

Many of the changes in meds were done as properly as they can be i guess meaning crossovers over a month or so to the new drug.  Coming off Remeron was extremely difficult and i went to a compounding pharmacy and ended up doing that 1mg at a time over some months.  The most recent taper down in 2018 was an attempt was to get off all meds, namely citalopram and klonopin/valium and was not done properly in that it was fairly rapid.  I knew better but i took the doctor's advice for whatever reason and against my better and educated judgement on the topic, big mistake.  Hence my going back to the ssri/benzo combo of prozac and valium as i couldn't tell which or both was creating the insanity that ensued, high levels of anxiety, tracers in my vision, etc.

 

How exactly has the liquid diazepam been a problem for people, in what sense has it been a problem?  It doesn''t work, too strong, very difficult to come off of, something else?

 

I am serious about coming off and i've made progress albeit scattered and with setbacks.  Is there a way to tell if what i'm feeling is tolerance or withdrawal, it may be a combo of both if possible and i'm not even sure that it matters.  Let's say i went to 4mg per day and started the taper from there over say 150 days would that be a good approach to mitigate both scenarios?  As far as going to the DLMT, i'd think i can just drop the liquid valium into water, shake it well therefore creating a solution, pull the toss amount out, then split it into 2 jars or whatever.

 

Thanks sincerely for your time on this

 

M

[[me...]]

Hi Methuselah, -Welcome..

 

Great job on the sig btw... -and members will know to check your intro for further details too...

 

I realy just wanted to encourage you, and gently support member Mary's thoughts...

 

Not realy my meds, but the picture is familiar, and I just urge you to give your situation seriously and timely consideration... The fact that your here, and I assume having a good read, will possibly be later defined as a life changing moment..  -not to sound overly dramatic.. -But not not to either..

I also think it likely, that you will have some good insight to offer other members too, -when your ready... -and thats always welcome, for sure..!!

 

My best wishes as you find your path forwards...

Again, welcome..

 

thanks cantfly, i truly appreciate the support and kindness 

[[Ma...]]

Mary, i attempted to quote you but when posted it quoted the entire thing so i skipped it, but i did my best to address your most recent post below

 

I started prozac when i was 17 i believe.  OCD started when i was 11 or 12 pretty bad at times, mostly "Pure O" meaning the illness mostly manifested in obsessions around a certain theme and compulsions (checking the door knob 50 times) were minimal.  OCD has transformed over time to some form of GAD with OCD peppered in for good measure with god knows what else mixed in from so many years on meds and potential side effects and so on.  I don't really know what my baseline is at this point and that's what i'm trying to figure out via getting off meds.

 

Many of the changes in meds were done as properly as they can be i guess meaning crossovers over a month or so to the new drug.  Coming off Remeron was extremely difficult and i went to a compounding pharmacy and ended up doing that 1mg at a time over some months.  The most recent taper down in 2018 was an attempt was to get off all meds, namely citalopram and klonopin/valium and was not done properly in that it was fairly rapid.  I knew better but i took the doctor's advice for whatever reason and against my better and educated judgement on the topic, big mistake.  Hence my going back to the ssri/benzo combo of prozac and valium as i couldn't tell which or both was creating the insanity that ensued, high levels of anxiety, tracers in my vision, etc.

 

How exactly has the liquid diazepam been a problem for people, in what sense has it been a problem?  It doesn''t work, too strong, very difficult to come off of, something else?

 

I am serious about coming off and i've made progress albeit scattered and with setbacks.  Is there a way to tell if what i'm feeling is tolerance or withdrawal, it may be a combo of both if possible and i'm not even sure that it matters.  Let's say i went to 4mg per day and started the taper from there over say 150 days would that be a good approach to mitigate both scenarios?  As far as going to the DLMT, i'd think i can just drop the liquid valium into water, shake it well therefore creating a solution, pull the toss amount out, then split it into 2 jars or whatever.

 

Thanks sincerely for your time on this

 

M

 

Hey M,

I am very pleased that a lot of the meds were crossed over, that is great.  As you said ,  I don't think I can answer the withdrawal or tolerance question.  Not sure anyone can, but just in case, we are going to ask for some help from the Titration group.  They have a lot of experience and can help you with the equation of your liquid Valium.  Don't put a time frame on it, that is going to be determined by so many variables , it will probably just disappoint you.  Go back to the homepage, scroll down, looking at the right side of the page until you see Titration thread.  Your topic should be can someone help me with the titration numbers with my liquid Valium, builder ? All this information will come up, he has a ton of experience and is one of the best with titrating numbers.  He will need to know how much you wish to titrate daily, and your daily dose now?  Good luck, my only recommendation is, with all the meds you have been on, go very slowly and titrate a small amount. 

 

Oh, you asked what causes problems with liquid Valium, another question with several answers....

Some think it is much stronger than the pill, and they don't feel well.  Others, think, the solution makes them feel worse, there are just different reasons.  Builder used liquid, a lot of people do just fine with it.  Benzo's react so differently on everyone.  I hope this has helped.  Mary ☮️💜☮️💜☮️💜

[[me...]]

Thanks Mary!  Posted to the titration forum and builder helped me in short order.  Thanks again 

[[Ma...]]

Thanks Mary!  Posted to the titration forum and builder helped me in short order.  Thanks again 

 

That great methuselah  .

Mary

[[me...]]

Hi Folks.  I started a taper log if anyone is interested.  Thanks!

 

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=231009.0

[[me...]]

Hello!  I wrote the following in the taper support forum as well but I wanted to add it here with the hopes that i may get some additional feedback.  Thank you for any help!!!

 

I'm working my way off of Valium, i'm down from 3.5mg liquid valium (V) down to 1.26mg as of today.  Twice daily dose equal split so this morning i took .58mg and this evening i will take another .58mg.  The trip down hasn't been great as i've been on this stuff for some time now which I'd say negates the relatively small dose.  things started to get more difficult once i got to about 2 mg per day.  Most common symptoms i've had to deal with are depression, anxiety, fear of death and it's inevitability and fear of others close to me dying, DR, cog fog, insomnia, cold/chills, chest tightness, muscle tightness, hypoglycemic feeling if i haven't eaten for awhile after waking and after intense exercise.

 

Anyway, i'm down to 1.26mg V now and the strange thing is I generally feel good when i wake up but feel worse about 2 hours after i dose the V in the morning and night (also on prozac at 12.5mg daily once morning dose).  I'm afraid to jump but it also feels that i'm suffering from a paradoxical effect at this point.  Does it make sense to jump now, make larger cuts quicker, slow it down and hold as i've tapered somewhat quickly (65% decrease in 4 months) and maybe it's just catching up to me? 

 

M