massive breathing problems, need help to get sleep instead of choking at night

[[an...]]

Hi there,

 

After 4.5 yrs on valium, including a 6-month taper according to Ashtom manual, my husband has just made it through his 3rd month of being benzo free. This past week has been hell for both of us, as I am staying up all night with him to help talk him through his symptoms, fear, and anxiety.

 

He has had massive breathing problems: inability to draw a deep breath/air hunger, extremely tight diaphragm, and numb nose and numb mouth make it so he can’t feel that he is breathing. Panic breathing sets in and he gets light headed and pressure in his head. He’s worried that these problems combine to create a real medical problem.

 

He’s also having a problem getting to sleep at night because each time he nods off, he wakes up choking, gasping, and coughing, and takes a few minutes to regain his breath. He’s also noticed that often as he is trying to wind down for bed, he feels a cold rush in his arms and pressure on his face/head, and sometimes chest. When he feels that, he knows that he is going to have one of the choking episodes if he tries to sleep.

 

We’ve been getting about 2 hrs of sleep a night for the past week, and I don’t think he got ANY sleep last night. He’s trying desperately not to use a rescue dose, as everything I’ve read says it could backfire.

 

Any hope you can offer regarding the breathing issues (and yes, we know … try to relax, try to do breathing exercises, try to distract yourself … ) would be appreciated.

 

Also, any experience with Benedryl as a sleep aid during withdrawal? We’ve been avoiding other supplements and just trying to get through but if the other option is taking valium again, than I’d rather he tried something OTC.

 

I should add he’s also about 2 weeks free of Remeron, so it’s hard to tell what, if any of these problems, are coming from the remeron withdrawal vs. valium.

 

He is so scared and desperate. Although I’ve only posted one other time, we’re on this board every single day to find hope, and I’m counting on you to help get us through this very tough time.

 

[[Fi...]]

Hi there, I had the same choking problem. It was a result of the crazy anxiety the withdrawals inflict on us.  I know how painful it is. Please tell your husband his anxiety will decrease for sure. It will take time, I thought I was completely losing my mind.

Benedryl is a no no to be taking for sleep. I saw a neuro specialist and she said not to take it at all until we are healed as it has the same effects on our receptors as taking a benzo. Since you guys are taking it for sleep, I did take try gravol with the ginger in it and it did not effect me. About two weeks ago I was having a huge problem breathing due to allergies so I though it would be okay for me to try a benedryl. Well 20 minutes later I was so sick and thought I was losing my mind again. Spoke to the doctor again and she said for allergies to only take Reactine.

I wish I had more tips for him, but you already know about the staying calm, distract etc. Something that helped a bit for me was when I started to feel anxious I told myself if I did start to choke or have a panic attack, that it is a wave, it cannot last forever and it will go away.  The only breathing that I could do was 4, 4, 4 breathing. (Breathing in for a count of 4), hold it for 4 and breathe out for the count of 4.  It was so hard to do because like your husband I couldn't get the breathes in but I kept doing it until I could because I knew that the breathing itself resets the brain. So even if you are trying to get him to take the breath in and he is hysterical saying he can't make him keep doing it. I have a friend who I would call and she would stay on the phone coaching and insisting even though I was irate.  I would keep at it because of her insistence and the horrible wave would finally start to calm down and pass

Self talk helped a lot as well. If I got the feeling that I was going to start choking if I fell a sleep I would start the breathing and ignore the "it's going to happen again" thought so I wouldn't ramp myself up further. It's super hard and I feel horrible that he is going through this.

So wish I had some better suggestions, but for me the only remedy was time. Now I don't have the choking at all and my anxiety has gone down exponentially.  The anxiety will get better. I thought mine never would and I was damaged for life.

Your husband is so lucky to have a partner who is so supportive and patient. I wasn't so lucky. Big hug to the both of you, it will improve, I promise. 

[[an...]]

Thanks Fighting the Good Fight. That was a very helpful post. I'm making him do the exercises now, and as you suspect, he's fighting me - not believing in them. But we're still going. I appreciate you posting something so quickly.

[Guest [ba...]]

I used Benadryl during my withdrawal/recovery, and it helped me get more sleep.  I actually preferred Unisom (doxy) as it seemed to work a bit better although I would wake up feeling pretty groggy for a couple of hours.

 

Air hunger is usually a by-product of anxiety (be it his natural anxiety or the chemically-induced anxiety from withdrawal).  One's hypothalamus will ensure that you breath enough to get sufficient oxygen if you'll let it do it's job.  But when you're anxious/panicky about everything else, you tend to get anxious/panicky about breathing too, and panic breathing can ensue.  Breathing is one of those bodily functions that is best ignored so that your body can do what it's meant to do.  The only actual 'danger' is if somebody forcibly breathes to the point where they hyperventilate. 

 

Is your husband capable of doing some exercise?  For me, a long (2-3 hour) bike ride really helped to take some of the energy out of my anxiety.  Not an aggressive, fast ride.  Just a moderate speed ride, but a long ride so that it tires you out.  A long walk or hike would do the same thing for me.  A few hours of continuous moderate yard work would probably also work. 

 

It's really common for people to think that something is actually seriously wrong with them during withdrawal/recovery.  It takes so long compared with recovering from most other maladies.  Some people head off to the ER room (often, repeatedly).  99% of the time, the ER folks find nothing wrong other than anxiety, and will try to hand them a benzo to settle down. 

 

I know we throw out the distraction/mindfulness terms a lot, but it's the best line of defense for not adding to one's anxiety/panic.  I've used this analogy before, but I think it's an effective one.  Anxiety is like a poorly-behaved two-year-old.  Always screaming for attention.  Your husband's job is to learn to ignore those screams.

[[an...]]

Hi badsocref,

 

Unfortunately, he has been housebound since tolerance years ago. Bad agoraphobia. Pacing the house is the only exercise he gets.

 

I know the distraction/mindfulness thing is basically what we've got, but he's become so sensitive to everything, all we can watch are youtube videos of relaxing sounds and nature scenes. Literally everything else makes him too anxious this week. It's bad, because the tv has been his distraction to date.

[Guest [ba...]]

Hi badsocref,

 

Unfortunately, he has been housebound since tolerance years ago. Bad agoraphobia. Pacing the house is the only exercise he gets.

 

I know the distraction/mindfulness thing is basically what we've got, but he's become so sensitive to everything, all we can watch are youtube videos of relaxing sounds and nature scenes. Literally everything else makes him too anxious this week. It's bad, because the tv has been his distraction to date.

 

Fear makes this process so much more difficult.  It feeds on itself.  Gotta find a way to break the cycle of fear.  Even just moments of calm can build confidence that a state of calm is achievable.  Maybe a little 'intimacy' would help???  Just gotta find a way to get his head out of his head for a while.

[[an...]]

It probably doesn't help that a hurricane is currently bearing down on us to get the fear under control 

[[id...]]

I had similar symptoms coming off of Remeron. I woke up gasping for air (if I could manage to fall asleep) and couldn't get adequate breath for a long time, I couldn't feel myself breathing. I'd say Remeron withdrawal was even harder than benzo withdrawal in some ways. I did use Benadryl and melatonin for sleep (mixed success). I also used Benadryl because Remeron is a powerful anti-histamine and I developed reaction to pretty much every food and couldn't eat. I recommend googling remeron withdrawal stories, because knowledgeable give good advice as to how to manage Remeron withdrawal and stay sane.

 

[[li...]]

I got the choking feeling at night in 2 or 3 waves, each lasting a couple weeks. First time happened around month 3 I think and then it came again several months later. It was so frustrating I would get up and just yell and get in my car and drive to my parents place in the middle of the night.

 

I used benadryl a few times, never had a bad reaction to it. Sometimes it just wouldn't work... I think it helped me twice.

 

Here is something you might want to try with your husband regarding agoraphobia. I don't know if he had it prior to benzos, but I did. I found this article http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1982/pdf/1982-v11n04-p243.pdf and spoke to the author. I started taking 300mg of Thiamine with a B100 supplement and now here I am 2.5 months later and my crippling, life destroying agoraphobia and panic disorder is 95% gone. It's amazing.

[[an...]]

Thanks ideallifevision. We've been really suspecting the remeron too, but it's just so hard to know.

 

limeedition - When you had that choking for a couple weeks, how did you ever sleep? He's trying to nap today, and is still choking and hasn't slept once. We're going to be heading in to several days of sleeplessness, and he can't go weeks without sleep! I keep thinking if he's tired enough, his body will let him sleep, but that doesn't seem to be the case even though it's been several days.

[Guest [ba...]]

Thanks ideallifevision. We've been really suspecting the remeron too, but it's just so hard to know.

 

limeedition - When you had that choking for a couple weeks, how did you ever sleep? He's trying to nap today, and is still choking and hasn't slept once. We're going to be heading in to several days of sleeplessness, and he can't go weeks without sleep! I keep thinking if he's tired enough, his body will let him sleep, but that doesn't seem to be the case even though it's been several days.

 

Try some different positions.  I often slept better in my easy chair (in front of the TV playing quietly) then I did in my bed.

[[an...]]

 

Here is something you might want to try with your husband regarding agoraphobia. I don't know if he had it prior to benzos, but I did. I found this article http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1982/pdf/1982-v11n04-p243.pdf and spoke to the author. I started taking 300mg of Thiamine with a B100 supplement and now here I am 2.5 months later and my crippling, life destroying agoraphobia and panic disorder is 95% gone. It's amazing.

 

Hi limeedition, I've been reading that article you sent. That would be amazing if just taking an OTC supplement kicked so many of his symptoms! You mentioned you spoke to the author - are you doing this on your own otherwise? I've seen in other places that taking B vitamins can be detrimental during benzo withdrawal, and I don't want to screw anything up. Getting him to a doctor in this state just isn't going to happen for anyone else to monitor blood levels.

[[li...]]

Yes, I'm doing everything on my own. The B complex gave me panic a couple times but I just made sure to take it with food in my stomach and not when i was susceptible to panic.

 

For the choking nights.. Sometimes I would just endure it for hours and it would eventually let up enough to sleep. Sometimes I'd go to my parents and sleep in my winter coat. It wasn't easy.

[[an...]]

I'm posting an update for those that find this thread later....

 

 

Husband went back on remeron and the choking and gasping for air stopped. He still has breathing difficulties from other things (can't feel the air in his nose or mouth so can't feel himself breathing, also air hunger, also really tight chest muscles making it difficult to get a breath in the times he could), but this violent reaction was stopped. The remeron also is helping him get maybe 5-6 hours of sleep a night.

 

 

My real opinion at this point is that taking away the remeron revealed worse benzo symptoms underneath, but regardless, we'll be waiting much, much longer before coming off the remeron again.

[[Li...]]

I'm going through a very, very similar situation right now, but add in some OCD intrusive thoughts. So similar infact, that this post actually gave me some comfort, knowing that I am not going totally insane. I always struggle with the idea that I have brought on all of this anxiety myself and that I'm just mentally ill and need to be on some form of medication, even though I am totally fine when I reach a window. The insomnia is real tough. I initially had the choking, but that has stopped.. I still struggle with the breathing all day long and can hardly get any sleep at night because the anxiety just won't shut down. I manage to get an hour here and there, rarely.

 

He is very lucky to have a supportive partner like you. I feel so bad for people that don't have anyone on their side, supporting them through this. My girlfriend has been an absolute angel, struggling with me during the insomnia and panic. We will get through this.

[[an...]]

Hi LiveAboutIt,

 

 

Oh you're not alone in the OCD intrusive thoughts either. These posts would just quite long if we listed every symptom with every post! Hang in there!! Keep going!!

[[Th...]]

Hi,

 

Great that remeron helps! 

 

I did something similar but in much smaller scale as I cold turkey Elavil about week before I jumped. My sleep went down from 7 hrs to 4-5 hrs.  I have had insomnia problem and have slight one now as well. I was in a sleep study some time ago ( posted results to insomnia section). I also noticed some breathing issues. I'll meet my sleep doc after two weeks because of the control visit. I already planned to propose him to rent small machine (link) for a month  creating air pressure in order to check it out if it helps but now reading anxioususer's post I think I go back to Elavil and give it a try before visit to sleep doc and talk about renting a machine. Well renting one and try might still be a valid option...

 

https://www.cpap.com/cpap-masks.php