What if forced into quick withdrawal?

[[Ho...]]

Hi,

 

I seem to have absolutely no say over my taper.  Have tried different docs with no luck.  I can't find anyone who believes in the Ashton method.  I am not totally blameless, as my taper has led me to drinking in order to sleep.  That is no doctors fault, just mine.

 

But does anyone have any advice on who to see for a slower taper?  Is a general practitioner better than a psychiatrist? Male vs female, young vs old?  I know no one can say for sure but I'm looking for a good doc who will taper me safely.  So far, I've spent hours on the phone and had no luck.  I wish everyone a peaceful recovery.. gonna go cuddle my dog now  a few good things left, I think

 

Sam

[Guest [ch...]]

You only need a doctor to write prescriptions. You can guide your own taper. One approach would be to directly taper off Ativan and not tell your prescriber you are tapering. That way you can go as slow as you want, and you can even stockpile extra as your actual dose drops below your prescribed dose, so as to minimize the risk of being cut off. Of course if you want to follow Ashton method and cross to Valium, that makes it a little harder. Then you'll need a prescriber for the Valium. Unless you order it from the black market. Google "Valium" and you'll find hundreds of places eager to sell it to you, mostly coming from India or Pakistan. (Not recommended unless you're really stuck finding a prescribing doctor.)

Good luck,

CP

[Guest [ch...]]

BTW I did find a prescribing psychiatrist in Boston for my cross to Valium + taper. She was young, independent (i.e. not part of a large practice), and expensive (didn't take insurance). Gee, that description makes her sound like a hooker . But no, she was an actual doctor, and I got the Valium I needed to taper, and I dumped her after getting a sufficient taper supply. Don't know if this is of any help finding a doctor in your area of the country.

Take care,

CP

[[Gr...]]

I would not bother talking to a doctor about tapering.  Just get someone to write you the prescription for anxiety or whatever it is that you had it for.  You can always mention that you want to cut down in the future or something like that.  Noone questions you if you suddenly "don't need them"  but they have a lot to say when you complain about withdrawal symptoms.

 

It's been my experience that older male doctors are much more willing to give me prescriptions for tranquilizers for anxiety.  I think it's partly because that's what they are used to and people have been prescribing tranquilizer for years and years, especially to women, especially for anxiety.  Honestly, I think maybe there might be just more older male doctors in psychiatry but I'm not sure about that.  Also, a psychiatrist is way more likely to be open to prescribing benzodiazepenes.  I have had more than one GP refuse to prescribe them.

[[Te...]]

These testimonies from doctors might be good for future reference for them: https://www.benzoinfo.com/single-post/2017/09/07/Dr-Armstrong-in-Support-of-Massachusetts-Bill-H3594?utm_campaign=dr_armstrong_in_support_of_massachusetts_bill_h3594&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=2017-09-07

 

But I agree with the others. Get the prescription you need. You can find someone here to help you taper slowly. I wish I were put on Valium as a crossover drug, or did a micro taper, but instead the doctor put me on Klonopin, which was terrible for me. I tapered much too quickly and c/t'd off .5 mg of Ativan. Ativan is a beast, so do whatever you can to get your way. Doctors generally don't know a damned thing about tapering, and they can wreck lives because of it. 

 

If you opt for Valium, I would be VERY FORCEFUL because doctors seem to think that Valium isn't a good drug, from what I've read on here. But having read countless posts, I can say that people on Valium, if done slowly, generally fare far better than the rest of us.

[[Ho...]]

Thanks for the info!  I feel I'm running out of time.  I need to get off my butt and try to find some help, but it's hard.. I just want to give up, because I've tried so many times and no one listens.  The psychiatrists I've seen have been very vehement about getting me off the benzos and I just can't afford much.. I'm a young mom, not working, trying to continue attending classes, and getting really scared at how life is going for me.  There is an addiction specialist I think could help me but he's expensive and my dad doesn't want to help. 

 

Crying now because it seems so hopeless.  One counselor told me I seemed like one of the most anxious people he'd seen, for some reason my ex is Rx'd the meds he needs, but when I went to the same clinic (I got stuck with a different doc though), I had the worst experience ever and the doc told me I needed to be off within 5 weeks.  I take a beta blocker cuz my heart rate and bp get so high... really scared this is going to kill me!!  Losing hope... thanks for the advice though, I'm going to try to find a new doctor, but I don't believe it'll help.  I must be saying the wrong things or something...

 

I don't really want to go to rehab, seems like it'll just make withdrawal more miserable, and they take a long time to get into when you're poor like I am... but maybe it's a safer option?  Don't want to have a heart attack/stroke...

 

I read awhile ago (even before I was taking the Ativan) that docs don't like Rx'ing Valium because it got a "stigma" a long time ago... since it was the original drug they USED to Rx because it was safest.  It's ridiculous!  How can all these doctors ignore withdrawal, when it's clearly a fact of these poisonous meds they prescribe??

 

Thanks for listening,

Sam

[[No...]]

Hi,

 

I seem to have absolutely no say over my taper.  Have tried different docs with no luck.  I can't find anyone who believes in the Ashton method.  I am not totally blameless, as my taper has led me to drinking in order to sleep.  That is no doctors fault, just mine.

 

But does anyone have any advice on who to see for a slower taper?  Is a general practitioner better than a psychiatrist? Male vs female, young vs old?  I know no one can say for sure but I'm looking for a good doc who will taper me safely.  So far, I've spent hours on the phone and had no luck.  I wish everyone a peaceful recovery.. gonna go cuddle my dog now  a few good things left, I think

 

Sam

 

Here, GP's will not prescribe without a psychiatric consult. I saw 2 before being reinstated and having discussions about what med and when to taper. First one was the typical psych who didn't listen and just wanted me on an anti-depressant when I was twitching and tremoring and rocking back and forth. Not very informed.

 

Psych number 2 gave strict instructions that my taper should be led by me because tapering has a better chance of success when patient driven. Find a good GP first because regardless of what the psych recommends the decision about tapering is up to the physician. Take in the manufacturers prescribing manual and highlight all the information about how slow a taper should be and the dangers of speeding it up.

[[Gr...]]

When you call the doc to ask for an appointment, make sure you tell them that you were taking 2mg of ativan for anxiety and you would like go back to that for now cause your anxiety is currently unbearable and you are worried about your job.  Make it really clear before you even make the appointment, so that way you don't waste your time and money to find out they won't even write you a script.  There's always a chance they will still not write a script, but I feel like it is less so if you have already told them what meds you take and they agree to see you. 

 

Whenever I went to see new doctors I would always bring an old bottle with the prescription on it that I wanted.  That way they could see exactly what I was taking.  It made everything easier.

[[No...]]

When you call the doc to ask for an appointment, make sure you tell them that you were taking 2mg of ativan for anxiety and you would like go back to that for now cause your anxiety is currently unbearable and you are worried about your job.  Make it really clear before you even make the appointment, so that way you don't waste your time and money to find out they won't even write you a script.  There's always a chance they will still not write a script, but I feel like it is less so if you have already told them what meds you take and they agree to see you. 

 

Whenever I went to see new doctors I would always bring an old bottle with the prescription on it that I wanted.  That way they could see exactly what I was taking.  It made everything easier.

 

You give some of the best advice!! Saving bottles is easier for them to look at than going through chart notes.

 

If we call clinics around here they all deny they prescribe benzos to deter drug seekers. Even though my clinic has a Benzo Contract (love that!) the doctors still determine whether or not they'll prescribe it to you.

[[Ho...]]

Thanks for the advice!  I usually do bring a bottle to show them, but haven't really even gotten the chance- I've seen 3 different psychiatrists in the last year, trying to find one that would legitimately help, but none have seemed to understand about tapers. 

 

First one seemed to expect me off in a month, second (I see him again now) has been a bit better but is still very flippant and shrugs off the fact of w/d.. telling me, while laughing, that he doesn't even have to give me anything (which is of course true... but still, I wish he wouldn't say it in that way).  The third was the worst... actually had me in tears at the end of the appointment.  She gave me a 5 week taper- I never even turned in the script, I went back to the second one I saw. 

 

I want to try finding a new GP, since that's a route I haven't tried.  It's been super hard to even get in to see any psychiatrists and I'm running out of time.  My current doc already told me he wouldn't bother cutting from 1mg to .75, he'd just take me straight to .5mg, because it's a small cut.. I knew he wasn't right but didn't find out just how inadvisable a 50% cut was til I found this site.

 

I hate seeing all these different doctors because I'm sure it makes me look bad... like I'm doc-shopping or something.  But I'm really just trying to find someone who knows about benzos and (hopefully) will let me try the Ashton method.  I've tried printing stuff out too, but no one was interested in looking at it.  It's tough, because I really do try to be honest, but I'm also afraid of pissing the Dr off and leaving with *nothing*... that would be worse.

 

Oh, and I think there's also a Patient Care Report or something you can print but I don't know where to get ahold of it... my ex told me that he took one in and it really "impressed" the doctors... he seems to be doing better with docs than I am, so maybe there's something to that.

 

Thanks for everything,

Samantha

 

[Guest [Le...]]

Hi Sam,

 

Considering the situation you're already in, you may not want to put all of your eggs in the Valium basket.

 

I tried to cross over from Ativan to Valium and it did not work well for me, because the Valium plunged me into an intolerable depression. It doesn't affect everyone that way, but for me it was simply not workable. Luckily my doctor was willing to let me go back to Ativan to finish. 

 

Other members here have tapered from Ativan successfully, and you may want to try to keep that option open too, rather than trading it in for the unknowns of Valium.

 

Alcohol hits the same neurotransmitters as benzos, so if you can stop that as soon as possible, your taper will be less complicated IMO. I cold turkeyed from heavy alcohol use over 20 years ago, and it was a piece of cake compared to stopping benzos. Trying to taper benzos while continuing to drink may leave you spinning your wheels.

 

Just another little side note: I literally stopped drinking so that I would live to see my kids grow up, and it was so worth it, they were so worth it. You should see them now - they are spectacular grownups.  

 

The great part to focus on now is that you're going to get off and recover - I can promise you that it's totally doable.

Leslie 

[[Ho...]]

Thanks a lot for the positive words.  It's so easy to get caught up in all the negative when you're going through this.  I know I need to stop drinking ASAP- I'm hoping today will be the last day.  I can't do it anymore, I have pain everywhere (when the liquor isn't dulling it) so I know I'm doing damage to my body.

 

I've stockpiled some pills because I don't generally drink and take benzos together, I know it's a dangerous combo.. but today I had to take .25 Ativan since I haven't had any in days.  It's hard to even know what is causing what, ya know?? 

 

Detoxes claim getting off everything in just a few days is doable, but it doesn't sound like that's a good route.  I'm on methadone too!  I feel like a real loser for ending up like this in life.  The good thing about methadone is that you totally get to make your own choices, regarding your taper schedule.  Too bad there aren't benzo clinics that worked that way as well.

 

I wish I could find a doc that continued Rx'ing, so I could follow the advice and make small cuts myself.  Most psychiatrists, I can't even get in to see for like... months.  So that won't work.  Oh well.  I don't have any other choice but to just... do it.  My son is worth it.  I definitely want to watch him grow up... though I'm truly terrified I won't be able to.  I have a high resting heart rate anyways.. at the ER I've noticed other patients monitors and mine almost always seems highest.  So a stroke actually seems possible during withdrawal.  That's why I wish the detoxes really worked... it does seem safer than doing it alone. 

 

Anyways thanks again!

Sam

[[No...]]

Thanks for the advice!  I usually do bring a bottle to show them, but haven't really even gotten the chance- I've seen 3 different psychiatrists in the last year, trying to find one that would legitimately help, but none have seemed to understand about tapers. 

 

First one seemed to expect me off in a month, second (I see him again now) has been a bit better but is still very flippant and shrugs off the fact of w/d.. telling me, while laughing, that he doesn't even have to give me anything (which is of course true... but still, I wish he wouldn't say it in that way).  The third was the worst... actually had me in tears at the end of the appointment.  She gave me a 5 week taper- I never even turned in the script, I went back to the second one I saw. 

 

I want to try finding a new GP, since that's a route I haven't tried.  It's been super hard to even get in to see any psychiatrists and I'm running out of time.  My current doc already told me he wouldn't bother cutting from 1mg to .75, he'd just take me straight to .5mg, because it's a small cut.. I knew he wasn't right but didn't find out just how inadvisable a 50% cut was til I found this site.

 

I hate seeing all these different doctors because I'm sure it makes me look bad... like I'm doc-shopping or something.  But I'm really just trying to find someone who knows about benzos and (hopefully) will let me try the Ashton method.  I've tried printing stuff out too, but no one was interested in looking at it.  It's tough, because I really do try to be honest, but I'm also afraid of pissing the Dr off and leaving with *nothing*... that would be worse.

 

Oh, and I think there's also a Patient Care Report or something you can print but I don't know where to get ahold of it... my ex told me that he took one in and it really "impressed" the doctors... he seems to be doing better with docs than I am, so maybe there's something to that.

 

Thanks for everything,

Samantha

 

I wish I could help you. You shouldn't be forced into withdrawal. Physiological dependence develops in just weeks and psychological dependence comes in fairly soon as well. Neither means you're a drug addict which is what these psychs often overlook. If you want to go slower that's to be expected because of both forms of dependence.

 

You are NOT a loser. At this point it doesn't matter how we ended up on benzos or methadone or in my case marijuana. It would be great if we could network worldwide with a list of providers willing to help us taper at our own pace and without the arrogance. I'm shocked that any physician would speak to you the way you've described, but not surprised due to similar experiences.

 

The most important thing is to have a doctor with hospital privileges/access in case something goes wrong. A GP can at least note your symptoms and prescribe other less harmful meds that will help. I was forced into CT withdrawal and nearly died. Initially the new GP said something had to be done to stabilize me. My symptoms were pretty pronounced.

 

I was sent for a psych consult and stood my ground. No new meds. No different meds. I wasn't sure I wanted back on my benzo but I wasn't taking anything else. We reinstated. But CT even after just 3 or 4 months is dangerous and cruel, IMO. Please keep looking for a GP to track your symptoms and help lessen them. 

[[Ho...]]

Thanks so much for your kind words and advice!

 

My GP started out just giving scripts.. not only did she not warn me, once she came in with an Rx before she'd even spoken to me, based on anxiety I'd mentioned to her nurse... you would think she'd at least check in.

 

It was after that script I realized I was dependent.  When I asked to taper (in Jan), she cut me down from 2 to 1mg.  Even without knowing much about tapers, I knew that was too fast.  I sought another psychiatrist who was no more knowledgeable so I ended up back at my GP, armed with my own taper plan.  My GP went along with it for awhile, never offering advice, just.. prescribing.  Even though it was faster than I've found out now is advised, it worked out ok.. for awhile.  Then suddenly my GP told me I had issues and needed to see a psychiatrist.

 

But what she actually *told* me was.. I won't Rx again until you see a psychiatrist.  But on the prescription she gave me, she wrote something like "final prescription."

 

She just made no sense, not even by what she said herself... I don't dislike her, I'm not anti-dr at all, but she abandoned me mid-taper at 1.5mg of Ativan.  Without any warning ahead of time.

 

I'm going to look for a new GP... it's the one thing I haven't done.  I found a psychiatrist, like my GP told me to do, and at least he's pleasant... but not very "benzo-wise." 

 

I'm hoping to find someone soon, and no matter what I need to take better care with my taper... Until maybe a week ago I was just very naïve about all of this.  It makes me feel very disappointed in myself.  If only I'd have known what to Google to find this wonderful forum.. but I think, until you're going through it.. it's hard to even find the words. 

 

Hope you're having a good night and thanks for the kind words!

Sam

[[Ho...]]

I also refuse to take anything else.

 

Docs keep wanting to force SSRIs on me.  I've never taken one and highly doubt I ever will.  I don't need another substance messing stuff up, and I've heard a lot of people have bad reactions to SSRIs. 

 

I'm not anti meds, anyone who needs them or finds their suffering lessened by them, that's wonderful.. I just have a really intense fear of them.. I have a hunch, just from what I've read and my reactions to other meds, that these wouldn't be good for me.  A lot of them raise your BP and heart rate and those are the main causes of my anxiety.

[[No...]]

I also refuse to take anything else.

 

Docs keep wanting to force SSRIs on me.  I've never taken one and highly doubt I ever will.  I don't need another substance messing stuff up, and I've heard a lot of people have bad reactions to SSRIs. 

 

I'm not anti meds, anyone who needs them or finds their suffering lessened by them, that's wonderful.. I just have a really intense fear of them.. I have a hunch, just from what I've read and my reactions to other meds, that these wouldn't be good for me.  A lot of them raise your BP and heart rate and those are the main causes of my anxiety.

 

Please don't be disappointed in yourself for not learning more about the med. The internet is full of information. How is anyone supposed to find the correct information without guidance from their doctor and pharmacist? You didn't do anything wrong.

 

I got that all time - "Let's try an SSRI." Nope. No thanks. Been there and done it too many times with zero success. I'm only anti-benzo because right next to me is a leaflet from a pharmacy saying it's okay to prescribe my medication for "embarrassment".

[[Ho...]]

I ended up at ER where I've been given benzos for alcohol withdrawal... my HR was so high they had to.  A social worker called their addiction specialist (one of the best around I guess) and *I* thought he said he could help me, as long as the admitting doctor gave me a referral.  I asked him about money because I've been wanting to see he for ages but he said not to worry about it, as long as the dr referred me from this hospital I could use the insurance I used here and not need the $ I'd need for his private practice.

 

BUT according to the referring doctor, it depends on my insurance.  And the ER doctor says he doesn't take medi-cal.  Technically I have LA Care, but it's under medical.  Basically I have no idea what the truth is, as everyone says something different.  I had felt so relieved to find a doctor who knows what Ashton is!  Granted, he does it with librium, but still... I'm sure he would help me taper better than anyone else I've met.

 

And now I can't even drink... which is best, but I'll miss the comfort of.  I'm just sitting here crying, wondering how I went from feeling better to worse so quickly and wishing I was home with my baby.. He's at his dad's now though.  I missed my whole visit with him in some shitty hospital bed.  Anyways I need to go watch something easily distracting.. either true crime, cartoon, or funny.  Suggestions?

[[Gr...]]

I ended up at ER where I've been given benzos for alcohol withdrawal... my HR was so high they had to.  A social worker called their addiction specialist (one of the best around I guess) and *I* thought he said he could help me, as long as the admitting doctor gave me a referral.  I asked him about money because I've been wanting to see he for ages but he said not to worry about it, as long as the dr referred me from this hospital I could use the insurance I used here and not need the $ I'd need for his private practice.

 

BUT according to the referring doctor, it depends on my insurance.  And the ER doctor says he doesn't take medi-cal.  Technically I have LA Care, but it's under medical.  Basically I have no idea what the truth is, as everyone says something different.  I had felt so relieved to find a doctor who knows what Ashton is!  Granted, he does it with librium, but still... I'm sure he would help me taper better than anyone else I've met.

 

And now I can't even drink... which is best, but I'll miss the comfort of.  I'm just sitting here crying, wondering how I went from feeling better to worse so quickly and wishing I was home with my baby.. He's at his dad's now though.  I missed my whole visit with him in some shitty hospital bed.  Anyways I need to go watch something easily distracting.. either true crime, cartoon, or funny.  Suggestions?

 

Thank God for Dr. Ashton.  I'm so glad you found someone to work with you.  Librium is better than cold turkey!  I would suggest something funny to watch,  like Mrs. Doubtfire.  I love that one. 

[[si...]]

Read about diazepam's value to taper off and went to the public hospital where I live for 10 euro I can see a doctor for 5minutes.

 

She changed my prescription from Lorazepams to Diazepams giving me zero Lorazepam which caused me major trouble as suddenly I had to take only DIazepam and the transition didn't go so well (didnt sleep at all).

 

I had to go to private doctor and get prescription for Lorazepam too. Now I have both and can start slowly replacing ativan with diazepam but I do it with Ashton method (a little diazepam while still taking ativan/lorazepam). Then I hope to rely only to diazepam and then start tapering off the diazepam until im ''benzo free''. Its a long way from this point of view right now but thats how it goes.

 

When i did cold turkey to ativans and tranxene some years ago I suffered a lot, and now I only wonder why I did that to myself. I lost 2 years from my life. Stopped both working and university. Was a zombie for 1,5 year sleeping just 2-3 hours/night and subsequently not functioning at all during day. People knew something is wrong with me so I lost all friends, even childhood ones. I didnt know about slow down-dosing and didn't research at all about it, I thought naively that I just can stop taking it out of the blue, even when I had the withdrawal symptoms that were pure hell, I still didnt take any drug as I was convinced that they are worse than the withdrawal symptoms, but on retrospect I should have gone to a doctor (also avoided doctors cause I blamed them for my addiction) and so I suffered without any support or doctor and for some reason I didn't even research online about this. I was sure this is only me in the world having this problem and I thought the withdrawal has to do with me being weak and not with the cold turkey situation on 10 mg Tranxene/day.

 

Now  I do go to a (cheap public hospital) doctor but she only devotes 5 mins to each patient so all I can do is get new prescriptions and nothing else,she has no time to discuss my issues or tapering. TO be honest and my horror, most doctors are against stopping benzos. Only one out of 10 psychietrists I've seen in my life so far was in favor of stopping benzos and was very fiercely against using benzos to relax, telling  me I must see a psychologist for my anxiety not take drugs for it. He was unfortunatelly moved to another place away form where I live so I couldnt continue seeing that particular doctor, the other ones who replaced him in the public hospital were all in favor of more and more benzos in my life, upon hearing my life's misfortunes and my stress problems.

 

But due to complications of using and abusing ativan I decided to slow taper now and replaced them with cognitive therapy (self-help books and audiobooks help a bit),  start cardio exercise maybe on low insensitivity because when I over-exercise I get panic attacks, and researching how to deal with panic attacks and depression without drugs.

 

Not only most doctors are happy to easily prescribe benzos for panic attacks and general anxiety but they also don't care to help with stopping benzo. So having trust to doctors is now a bit shaken in me. And we often hear of horror doctor mistakes...  FOr this reason I think educating yourself by reading online but mainly the Ashton carefully and some books on benzos, and if you want you can research scientific data, and be your own doctor in effect. Complete trust to doctors (and medicine) is not 100% safe.  Doctors still know more than me on chemistry, body ,organs etc but many doctors do not update their knowledge after graduation (although they are supposed to)and especially gov doctors in south europe countries that have very bad public health funding, they are happy to receive their monthly governement salary knowing that no matter how bad they treat a patient, the salary will still arrive...plus they seem to support each other a lot (gov doctors I mean).

 

So im not sure anymore blind belief to what a doctor says its the right thing. Its what made me an addict in the first place, and a withdrawal zombie too plus the huge socio-economic price I pay and still pay and will be paying. But who cares? To the eyes of the gov officials, social workers and doctors, im the crazy one, and they are the god-appointed judges of me and all society...

 

Having said all this, I still go to doctors ,outside psychiatry they tend to be helpful although being told to take 3 pills of 40 mg Pantoprazole (for acid reflux that started when I cut down the ativan) per day, by my gastro-doctor, was not so nice, when I read the side-effects of that drug online and that is its also addictive somehow. Im ok with drugs for a short period but when a doctor tells me ''people live all their lives on this''and they mean in a positive light, thats horrifying. I dont want to live my life on drugs. Of course a close up test of all body will help so thats what I aim to do to rule out causes or prevent more serious conditions.

[[si...]]

I will start a blog in this forum in the right place but I must say today it was second time I had a really nasty reaction to taking just 5 m diazepam. I ended up going to a private practice psychietrist. She subscribed Paxil and she said I should continue lorazepam 4 mg/day then next month 3.5 /day then next month 3 mg/day, thats her idea of tapping down. I will do that but after giving 15 euro for Paxil I read this online and freak out... so im not going to take it. She said its for my anxiety but I know a gym might help better (endorphines, completely natural...). I believe in nature.