Librium: Badly need advice on taper vs. cold turkey

[[Pa...]]

Background: over 50. male. Health is good except ulcerative colitis for 25 years.

 

Hi community.

Here is my story. For a few years I've used xanax. etizolam, ambien, or other benzos occasionally but never more than 2 or 3 times a week, at low doses.

 

About a month ago I developed an addiction to the opioid Tramadol. (very stupid)

 

Along with taking very high doses of Tramadol I took .25mg or .5mg xanax or 1 mg etizolam for about 20 days straight because I read it reduced the chances of seizures from Tramadol.

 

To get through tramadol withdrawals my doc prescribed 60 mg Librium. 2x10mg 3 per day. It worked, and I'm off Tramadol, for good, with no more opiate withdrawals.

 

I did that for a week.

 

I don't know if this exposure to these benzos is long enough that I need to taper off Librium or whether I can quit cold turkey. My doctor doesn't know either.

 

I don't want to taper if I don't need to because it means taking more total benzos. But I don't want another withdrawal episode and I want to be totally functional so if it is generally recommended I will taper.

 

But in that case I need to convince my doctor of what sort of taper. More like a slow Ashton taper that takes a few months? Or a faster one that takes a couple of weeks?

 

I just want to get down to zero without doing any more harm to myself and I can't figure out what is the best way. This community seems highly knowledgeable about this. So I'm really asking for any help anybody can provide.

 

Thanks.

 

[Guest [vi...]]

i'm sorry but nobody really knows if you need to taper or if you could quit cold turkey. every person is different.

 

when in doubt, follow ashton.

 

that is what i did with my first cut. i soon realized i could not handle her method, so i waited for withdrawals to abate and i then explored various slow tapering methods here and found one that was reported to be relatively painless by "many" (i sacrificed on time and opted for a slow, daily taper). so far my new tapering method has been pleasant and i will carry on with it.

 

may i ask what the tramadol withdrawals were like? length and symptoms?

 

 

[[Pa...]]

Thanks. I'm sure you understand the dilemma I'm in. If I can just cold turkey successfully, that means less total exposure to benzos, so presumabl less problems. But if tapering is safer and more comfortable, I could use some relief after the Tramadol withdrawal.

 

The Tramadol withdrawal was in a word, wretched. For several days my body ached, I was in pain, and I could do little but lay in bed focusing on my breathing and trying to sleep, which was almost impossible. I couldn't read or watch TV - normal novels felt too upsetting. The worst aspects were entirely psychological. I was very depressed and down on myself for becoming addicted, felt like I had failed my family, and suffered a lot of anxiety and agitation. It was just the absolute opposite of peace of mind. I also had restless leg syndrome. The most relief actually came one night when i couldn't take it and took 600 mg gabapentin.

 

After four days or so of this I began taking the Librium and that helped. I also take kratom which eases the opiate withdrawal. I also took immodium (12 mg, then 8 next day, then 6, then 4) which helped a lot with stomach trouble. By the 6th day I forced myself to become functional, and resuming some normal routines and social activities helped immensely. By the 8th day I considered the withdrawals over.

 

Now it is just a matter of first getting off Librium, and then slowing tapering down kratom. The latter I have done before successfully with a slow taper and very minimal discomfort.

[Guest [vi...]]

some people are able to quit CT after even a few years of benzo-ing and some aren't even after a few weeks. i would not recommend you test the water by trying a CT. it's better to try the ashton method (which is, nowadays, considered fast) and if you are able to ride over the first cut without much discomfort, you can keep increasing your pace (by sticking to the same mg or quantiy of a cut than %).

 

the first time i quit benzo in 1993 was by a fast 1 month taper and i had no withdrawls (i had had a 3 years use history). and look at me now.

 

in may i took tramadol for a month because of pain (i am flat footed). eventually i had to stop walking and take to exercising on the recumbent bicycle. i experienced withdrawal when i ran out of tramadol. i was depressed for a week. if i compare the withdrawal depressions, the depression from a benzo withdrawal is straight from hell -- tramadol depression was playful in comparison because it wasn't as terrorizing and i could successfully alleviate it, albeit temporarily, with vigorous cardio.  not trying to scare you but yeah, benzo withdrawal, at least for me, is the worst.

 

 

[[Pa...]]

Well, that sucks.

It is possible my Tramadol withdrawal was exacerbated by also having a mild benzo withdrawal at the same time.

 

Anyway, thinking about a slightly accelerated Ashton since it's my first go-round and I don't have too much underlying anxiety, etc.

 

Started 60 mg Librium per day

Taper schedule:

Week 1: 50 mg

Week 2: 40 mg

Week 3: 30 mg

Week 4: 25 mg

Week 5: 20 mg

week 6: 15 mg

Week 7: 10 mg

Week 8: 5 mg

Stop.

 

 

Alternatively I could CT and take small doses of Lyrica or Gabapentin for a week. I guess as you say, I'll never know how it works out until I try it.

[Guest [vi...]]

 

Anyway, thinking about a slightly accelerated Ashton since it's my first go-round and I don't have too much underlying anxiety, etc.

 

Started 60 mg Librium per day

Taper schedule:

Week 1: 50 mg

Week 2: 40 mg

Week 3: 30 mg

Week 4: 25 mg

Week 5: 20 mg

week 6: 15 mg

Week 7: 10 mg

Week 8: 5 mg

Stop.

 

 

Alternatively I could CT and take small doses of Lyrica or Gabapentin for a week. I guess as you say, I'll never know how it works out until I try it.

 

your taper schedule looks good. librium withdrawals take 5 to 7 days to descend and depending on how you feel, you could perhaps incorporate a 10 day gap only between the first and second cut.

 

even though lyrica and neurontin do not impact gaba (at least not directly as benzos do), they are known to help, esp. insofar as controlling seizures are concerned (latter drug more effective than former). we don't know the exact mechanism of action by which they help (they do ameliorate withdrawal). a few members have also had a negative reaction to neurontin when using it to assist in falling asleep after a CT (precipitated akathisia) so everything is a crapshoot. 

[[Pa...]]

Thanks a lot, that really helps.

 

Unfortunately I talked to my doctor and he wanted me to start my first cut down to 30.

 

I think I'm going to split the difference and start at 40. Then, if I feel any discomfort in the PM I'll use small amounts of gabapentin or pregabalin.

[[Bi...]]

Thanks. I'm sure you understand the dilemma I'm in. If I can just cold turkey successfully, that means less total exposure to benzos, so presumabl less problems. But if tapering is safer and more comfortable, I could use some relief after the Tramadol withdrawal.

 

The Tramadol withdrawal was in a word, wretched. For several days my body ached, I was in pain, and I could do little but lay in bed focusing on my breathing and trying to sleep, which was almost impossible. I couldn't read or watch TV - normal novels felt too upsetting. The worst aspects were entirely psychological. I was very depressed and down on myself for becoming addicted, felt like I had failed my family, and suffered a lot of anxiety and agitation. It was just the absolute opposite of peace of mind. I also had restless leg syndrome. The most relief actually came one night when i couldn't take it and took 600 mg gabapentin.

 

After four days or so of this I began taking the Librium and that helped. I also take kratom which eases the opiate withdrawal. I also took immodium (12 mg, then 8 next day, then 6, then 4) which helped a lot with stomach trouble. By the 6th day I forced myself to become functional, and resuming some normal routines and social activities helped immensely. By the 8th day I considered the withdrawals over.

 

Now it is just a matter of first getting off Librium, and then slowing tapering down kratom. The latter I have done before successfully with a slow taper and very minimal discomfort.

 

 

Tramadol withdrawal is closely related to Venlafaxine (effexor) since Tramadol works 50% as an SSRI too!!!!!

 

Some if not all of your Tramadol withdrawal could actually be SSRI withdrawal related since SSRI withdrawal lasts 2500X longer than opiate withdrawal which is over in about 2 or 3 weeks.

 

Please read:

 

https://patient.info/forums/discuss/how-to-beat-tramadol-withdrawal-so-very-easily--299820

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3905496/

 

Birdy