Falling off wagon in order to sleep

[[Si...]]

I was trying to hold steady at 0.5 mg Lorazepam (and 45 mg Remeron) and deal with insomnia but had horrible day feeling exhausted Tuesday and still woke up Wednesday feeling the same stressed exhaustion  so stayed home. Never went back to sleep. Finally around 3 I think the cortisol spike left me and I calmed down and felt fine but stayed on couch watching stupid TV. So, I woke at 3 am this morning VERY agitated. I ended up taking 1 mg Lorazepam every 2 hours to get sleep so took 2.5 mg last night. I woke at 7 feeling fairly rested but could feel the zombie like effect of benzos. Ugh.

I feel like I'm on a merry go round with insomnia. I can't get sleep consistent and therefore can't wean off this. 

I might have to buy a stationary bicycle and try that. I try to stay busy at work and not spend too much time sitting behind a desk.

But I always end up fighting with waking too early i think from cortisol spikes. I've ordered herbs to block cortisol.

I don't see how people succeed at this and ale to work.

[[Ph...]]

You might already be aware of this, but remeron at that high of a dose is actually stimulating. It's an odd paradoxical thing that happens at higher doses. The dose used for sleep is typically 7.5 - 15 mg. Just something to keep in mind. Best of luck to you.

[[Si...]]

Thanks for the info. I might ask dr to give me 15 mg tab next time so I can try to cut down.

[[Es...]]

You might already be aware of this, but remeron at that high of a dose is actually stimulating. It's an odd paradoxical thing that happens at higher doses. The dose used for sleep is typically 7.5 - 15 mg. Just something to keep in mind. Best of luck to you.

 

The same thing with Seroquel. Sixam, if you taper Remeron. Try to go slowly, like 10% a month. Or every two weeks. Remeron also makes you feel exhausted. I used to take it for 3 weeks and switched to Lexapro. But I took other stuff for sleep. Remeron seems pretty effective. 15 mg knocked me out. Had to stop cause of my ED.

 

Great idea with that stationary bike. Maybe some supplements, like Magnesium Citrate, lemon balm, hops, passiflora, melatonin - would also be helpful.

 

Check out if you don't take stuff that interferes with sleep in the evening. Or if you have some stressful situations at work that need to be tackled.

 

Don't make a tragedy out of a single updose. The more you blame yourself, the worse it will be.

 

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[[Si...]]

I wanted to stay at 0.5 mg until my sleep stabilized. I have taken 2.5 mg for 2 nights trying to sleep. I have been exhausted and can't focus at work but would be worse if I didn't take the Lorazepam. Can I just go back to 0.5 mg tonight since I am calm now or will just those 2 nights put me back into withdrawal?

[[Es...]]

I wanted to stay at 0.5 mg until my sleep stabilized. I have taken 2.5 mg for 2 nights trying to sleep. I have been exhausted and can't focus at work but would be worse if I didn't take the Lorazepam. Can I just go back to 0.5 mg tonight since I am calm now or will just those 2 nights put me back into withdrawal?

 

Here's what Ashton has to say about reinstatement and updosing (6th paragraph):

 

http://www.benzo.org.uk/ashsupp11.htm

 

Personally, I don't think two updoses can put you back into WD. It is all an individual matter. Just remember, that Remeron is a very powerful sleep aid. There's a lot of psychological component in your benzo dependence. A pdoc said my Ambien dependence was mostly psychological for many yrs.

 

Another pdoc said I would have epilepsy if I did Ambien CT, even with Valium. They did Ambien CT during 8 days in psych ward, while tapering my V way too quickly. No epilepsy. Each night I refused anticonvulsants.

 

Now I have this magical thinking with Valium. In fact, I'm just scared like hell of not falling asleep. And cling to numbers. Fully aware how absurd it is. Addictive thinking is compulsive thinking. Just take into account the psychological component in all this.

 

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[[Si...]]

So I found the problem for insomnia: I had been eating organic uncooked veggies liquified in a NutriBullet with coconut water with meat on the side. Even though I varied the veggies, I had a reaction. I started sleeping after I quit the NutriBullet. I hate cooking and just want to throw things into it to gulp it down and be done with it.

 

Causes of food allergies

Cause no 1 - Overeating the same foods. So try to go four or five days before repeating a food, eat a varied, balance diet.

 

The Rotation diet

Once someone becomes sensitive to foods, damage to the internal wall of the intestinal tract has most likely occurred. Repeated exposure to the same foods may initiate allergic reactions. Left untreated, intestinal permeability and overstimulation of the immune system can create an allergy to almost any food. A rotation diet helps reduce the chances of developing further allergies.

 

On this diet you can eat non-allergic foods every day for four - seven days. Allergic foods (as determined by testing or elimination dieting) are slowly re-introduced into the diet over a period of months.

 

… write out four different breakfasts, lunches, snacks, and dinners. But make sure you’re waiting three days before repeating a food.

[[Si...]]

I still woke at 3am because I didn't take Remeron or benzo before bedtime. I waited  1 hr after taking meds and felt like I was going to jump out of my skin so took benedryl then ended taking 4 more mg benzo and went to sleep by 5 am. Then I felt too drugged this morning so had a Starbucks decaf which is like a regular coffee.

The benzos give me sugar cravings so I can'r resist whatever is in t he kitchen at work.

So I feel like a basket case trying to work and take care of family and don't know where I am with benzo dosage.

Feel like I'm hitting a bottom so came home and ate  Ben & Jerry's for dinner. i feel pretty lost now

 

[[Si...]]

Hi sixam,

 

I think the remeron is probably causing the food and sugar cravings. I think the up and down on the Benzo's can be causing more problems for you too. A steady dose would be better. This can be especially hard with Ativan / Lorazepam though since it has such a short half life.

 

I know how bad the insomnia sucks. I went through hell with that. I was missing 2 and 3 days at a time and still going to work. I wish I had some magical advice to make it all better. Sadly the only way through this is to just make your way through it the best you can. One thing I've learned about sleep is that it's nearly impossible to bludgeon it into doing what you want.

 

I hope you feel better soon.

[[Es...]]

I still woke at 3am because I didn't take Remeron or benzo before bedtime. I waited  1 hr after taking meds and felt like I was going to jump out of my skin so took benedryl then ended taking 4 more mg benzo and went to sleep by 5 am. Then I felt too drugged this morning so had a Starbucks decaf which is like a regular coffee.

The benzos give me sugar cravings so I can'r resist whatever is in t he kitchen at work.

So I feel like a basket case trying to work and take care of family and don't know where I am with benzo dosage.

Feel like I'm hitting a bottom so came home and ate  Ben & Jerry's for dinner. i feel pretty lost now

 

I agree with Siggy. Remeron is causing the food and sugar cravings. Why don't you take Remeron before sleep? Did your pdoc put you on 45 mg at once? The starting dose should be 15 mg. But it's up to your pdoc to decide.

 

What would be the worst thing that would happen if you didn't fall asleep after 3 a.m.? How many hrs did you sleep before 3 a.m.? The most characteristic trait of insomniacs is they are afraid not to get enough sleep.

 

Do you know this book? I suggest you read it. Maybe when you cannot sleep. I see one can also get it on Audible. I know they say don't use iPads, iPhones etc. before sleep or if you wake up in the middle of the night. But it's a highly individual matter.

 

The book is "Say Good Night to Insomnia" by Gregg D. Jacobs:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Say-Good-Night-Insomnia-Drug-Free/dp/0805089586

 

I keep iPhone by my bed. I woke up in terror in the middle of the night and checked my Yahoo Mail instantly if one of my posts was edited again. OK, I've always had trouble conforming to the rules. So they sometimes edit my posts. I've always been an anarchist. Coupled with the emotional flooding I've gone through for almost a week. That makes for quite an explosive mix. No edit. Relief.

 

Instead, I found a very nice gmail from a friend. It cheered me up and calmed me down. So that I could fall asleep again. Often Kitty comes to me when I wake up. All purring and cuddlesome.

The best sleeping pill one could ever think of.

 

The two most eminent sleep specialists in my country suggest that if you cannot sleep. You try to relax for half an hour. Then you engage in some boring, calming activity. What has been working for me the best is chatting to ppl who cannot sleep at the same time here on BB. Or writing PMs, mails. Something more related to another person than myself. This is quite relaxing. One feels useful and calms down. It's all that hysterical fear of not falling asleep. Not be able to perform 100% on the job.

 

I've always been a perfectionist. Used to work for many yrs. Averaged 3-6 hrs sleep a night. Despite a cocktail of APs and a "z" drug Ambien, which did not work at all. Pdocs fed me APs to sleep when I was off benzos. Ambien WD daily. It has a half-life of 2 hrs. I can't sleep cause of my psyche. I hit tolerance with benzos long ago. Higher doses cause paradoxical effect. Waking up after 1,5 hr. All that causes insomnia is my psyche.

 

Here's a meditation you may try. Meditation Oasis "Relax into Sleep":

 

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/c/9/7/c979a6e9f4a99092/pod50.mp3?c_id=7776875&expiration=1503485312&hwt=b50e22406fb500f23190c80ef885f40c

 

Take care. I hope you overcome it and manage to get out of benzos' claws.

 

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[[Si...]]

Thanks for all the advice. A quick history of my sleep: 3 years ago when I couldn't sleep through the night because of withdrawal, i decided to wake myself up with a gentle ocean wave alarm and take the meds at 3am since i never had any trouble falling asleep just staying asleep until morning. This worked for a while then somehow I started taking the meds at bedtime. Some time ago, I think when I started weaning off the Lorazepam, I started waking at 6am every morning. At first, I would just have a snack and fall back asleep on the couch since it was cooler and darker in the living room. This deteriorated with having to take Valarium root to get a few more hours then valium so I realized I was adding more benzos. I think this had to do with a rise in cortisol.

I want to get off of the Lorazepam before I get off the Remeron. I know the benzos make me feel like a walking zombie and effect memory. Of course after a pint of ice cream last night for dinner, I slept great from all the fat and sugar.

I'm just stressed because I'm scared so all the support here is very helpful.

 

 

[[Es...]]

Thanks for all the advice. A quick history of my sleep: 3 years ago when I couldn't sleep through the night because of withdrawal, i decided to wake myself up with a gentle ocean wave alarm and take the meds at 3am since i never had any trouble falling asleep just staying asleep until morning. This worked for a while then somehow I started taking the meds at bedtime. Some time ago, I think when I started weaning off the Lorazepam, I started waking at 6am every morning. At first, I would just have a snack and fall back asleep on the couch since it was cooler and darker in the living room. This deteriorated with having to take Valarium root to get a few more hours then valium so I realized I was adding more benzos. I think this had to do with a rise in cortisol.

I want to get off of the Lorazepam before I get off the Remeron. I know the benzos make me feel like a walking zombie and effect memory. Of course after a pint of ice cream last night for dinner, I slept great from all the fat and sugar.

I'm just stressed because I'm scared so all the support here is very helpful.

 

Yeah, benzos messed up your sleep. I guess it's a good idea to stuff yourself with food if that makes you sleepy. I used to do it for 14 years while on tiny amounts of Seroquel for sleep.

 

Then you just have to watch your diet during the day.

 

The saying that you shouldn't eat before sleep doesn't apply to all those strong antihistamine psych meds.

 

You've been on benzos for such a short time, you have every chance to break free from them. And taper your Remeron to a reasonable amount afterwards.

 

Good luck.

 

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