Anyone cycling benzos and z-drugs?

[[ne...]]

Hello dear BenzoBuddies,

 

I am in desperate need of information and hope somebody out there can help me out, as I feel extremely ill, I don't know why and what to do next.

 

First, my situation: I'm a thin, petite female (88 lbs), diagnosed with fibromyalgia, irritable bowel disease and interstitial cystitis, suffering from chronic pain and insomnia for the last decade or so. I was always very reluctant to take meds for my insomnia, but as I have tried everything humanly possible to get some sleep (warm baths, essential oils, herbal teas, milky drinks, hypnotherapy, relaxation tapes and techniques, CBT, sleep hygiene, etc., etc.) I had now other options left, but to go to the psychiatrist.

 

So, I went ahead beginning of April and asked for something to help me with my insomnia. The doctor put me on cinolazepam 40mg (Gerodorm) for 3 nights and then zopiclone 7,5mg (Imovane) the next 3 nights saying they were different drugs and therefore I wouldn't get addicted to any of them if I cycled them. Also, he added that he had patients on zopiclone for months and they didn't get addicted, only tolerant. Naturally, I trusted him and started to take the prescription doses, happy that I could finally get some rest.

 

After two months however, instead of improving from all the extra sleep, I started to experience bad symptoms that I didn't have before, and did not know why. My pain got much much worse, I had terrible bowel, stomach and muscle pain, then I started to get some weird dizziness, mental confusion, memory and concentration problems, nausea and a "rocking boat" feeling. I would then rest in bed. Later, headaches came with sensory hypersensitivity, everything started to feel violent and painful, my heart got into crazy mode, my muscles began to jitter and tremble, and I would shiver from cold in summer under the blankets. I had no idea what was causing this, so went on for another two months taking the prescription and seeing tons of doctors in the meantime for my symptoms. I believed that my previous illnesses have gotten somehow worse, so I've spend ridiculous amounts of money on blood tests, MRI scans, and appointments. Everything came out fine and nobody asked about my medication use. They put everything down to either depression or anxiety.

 

Recently, I began suspecting that those symptoms were somehow related to my benzo and z-drug medication, as they have started to begin earlier and earlier in the day, and finally I couldn't get more than 4h of sleep at night and was shivering and feeling awful starting 5 am. So, I went back to the psychiatrist, to discuss everything. He listened to my symptoms, then he said that he doesn't believe that I am addicted, having only taken the meds for the past 4 months. Then he proceeded to diagnose me with anxiety and prescribed an  and a antidepressant to try. I replyed that I am already feeling very ill and don't want to take any more meds, but want to get off these that I take already. He told me ok, that I should then reduce the dose by 50% for a month or so, then stop C/T, it should be fine.

 

At this point I began to doubt his judgment, as I have already read about addictions, the leaflets on the meds said not to take them for more than a 2-4 weeks and also, wasn't feeling particularly anxious either, but rather the physical and cognitive symptoms were torturing me. Therefore, I've started my own taper, not of 50%, but of 25% reduction in both for the month of August. So far I'm a week in and not AT ALL stable and spend most of my time bed-bound, agonizing in pain, feeling extremely sick, nauseated and suicidal, going through hell every minute of every hour of every day. But, on the other hand, I wasn't stable on the full dose either for the last two months, so I am more than confused about what is happening.

 

I don't have much knowledge about benzos and z-drugs, and also coudn't find info online about cycling them as my doctor said to. What do you think buddies? Is it possible that I am addicted? Do any of you have experience with cycling benzos and z-drugs?  Is ok to cycle the meds as the doctor told me to? I always feel worse on the zopiclone days

 

If this post is not too coherent, I apologize as I am in a mental fog today. My brain may not be working well but my heart is. I give my heart to all of you taking the time to reply, thank you, and I wish you well.

xoxo

[[me...]]

Ugh, what a mess! First of all I have to say that the doctor who put you on a "cycle" of 3 days of cinolazepam, 3 says of zopiclone, is a dangerous idiot, if you haven't figured that out already. I had to look up cinolazepam, not familiar with that (you must be outside US). It is also a very short half-life benzo derivative. So you have two different drugs that are putting your GABA system on a wild ride.

 

I wouldn't say you are "addicted", as that is a loaded word, but it is very probably that you are dependent. The problem with short-acting drugs such as these is that your blood levels are all over the place, and you are probably going through withdrawal symptoms every day. You might feel much better doing a cross-over to a longer acting drug such as diazepam (40mg. cinolazepam equals about 10 mg. diazepam) and tapering that. To start with, I would drop the zopiclone and continue tapering the cinolazepam. Zopiclone is almost impossible to taper and often makes people quite ill.

 

But however you decide to proceed, I think you are going to need some knowledgeable, helpful medical help. It may take quite a bit of work to find the right person. Make it clear from the get go that you want to get off the drugs and not add any. Sleep is going to be tough for a while, but those of use who have battled insomnia for a while have found that there is no easy drug "fix".

[[ne...]]

Hello meowie,

 

Thanks so much for being so kind and taking the time to reply! This means so much to me as I am so sick and distressed. I will take on board your advice and start looking for a more knowledgeable doctor. I really am on a wild ride on these pills, in the morning I'm somewhat "better", but at night, when I'm getting close to taking my dose, I get really bad electric shocks and tremors, my nervous system goes haywire! I was sure this can't be good.

What you said makes so much sense, thank you! Wish you good luck on your journey and peaceful days!

xoxo

[[ne...]]

Hello everyone,

 

I am now back to report some of my findings after taking time to educate me some more. When I was very sick on my dose and didn't know why, I think I was going through tolerance withdrawal, as it is described on the http://www.benzo.org.uk FAQ (http://www.benzo.org.uk/FAQ1.1.htm):

 

"I AM EXPERIENCING ONE OR MORE OF THE SYMPTOMS LISTED ABOVE, BUT I HAVE NOT BEGUN TAPERING MY BENZODIAZEPINE. IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THE SYMPTOMS ARE NOT RELATED TO BENZODIAZEPINE USE, OR COULD I ALREADY HAVE STARTED WITHDRAWAL WITHOUT EVEN TAPERING?

 

You are probably experiencing tolerance withdrawal. When you reach tolerance, your brain needs more of the drug to stimulate the activity of GABA, and you begin to experience withdrawal symptoms. Some people find that no matter how much they increase their dose, they are unable to obtain complete relief. This may be caused by a fast, upward tolerance spiral, or by toxicity (see above). Complete withdrawal is necessary where this occurs.

 

Some people mistakenly form a belief that the drug has stopped working, and no longer alleviates their anxiety disorder when in fact they are experiencing anxiety brought on by tolerance withdrawal. Unfortunately, physicians will usually reinforce this misperception and advise you to increase your dose as a result or prescribe an additional benzodiazepine and/or antidepressants."

 

For all of you bravely marching through this hell, keep going. Don't give up. We will heal. One day.

Love you all.

[[To...]]

newOgirl, This is such a classic if you think about it. Search no further. It's the same story me and many others been going through on this forum. You are simply going through inter dose withdrawals big time. I bet this all started with you feeling extremely anxious and nervous on to the end of the day going worse into the evenings. Now it has come to the point your body has become so immune to the medications you even start to feel the symptoms from mornings on. I agree with the person that said your doctor is a dangerous idiot but they are all dangerous idiots to be honest. I tried to cycle drugs too. As a matter of fact anyone that knows me well in here knows I'm the specialist in cycling different benzo's and the king of kindling. Your body needs stability on one drug. Maybe it's a good idea to do a cross over to Valium and take half of your dose during the day and the other half just before bedtime. I really don't know about the rubbish your doctor put you on and cycling those. I mean you must have some serious mood-swings too if I'm not mistaken. Why do these doctors know so little about these drugs and for being psychiatrists just blows my mind. It's just mind baffling. Those are really short acting drugs you are talking about here and they will put you in inter dose withdrawal FAST !!!!!! You need to do the cross over to a longer acting one like Valium or Klonopine and do a really slow taper off of one of those in my humble opinion that is. I tried everything concerning cycling benzo's and z-drugs and what have you ... Your body needs some stability. It won't know about Valium or Klonopin so you would feel better right away. I really don't understand these doctors don't know about this and we have to tell people this over and over and over and over again ...     

[[ne...]]

Thank you TotalRelapse for your input, it helps to talk to other people about their experiences... I'm sorry to hear that you tried so many things and still no relief! I will try to find another doctor who will hopefully help me out and wish you do the same! Hang on in there!

[[To...]]

Thank you TotalRelapse for your input, it helps to talk to other people about their experiences... I'm sorry to hear that you tried so many things and still no relief! I will try to find another doctor who will hopefully help me out and wish you do the same! Hang on in there!

 

I'm at the point I would rather go visit a sjamaan or witch doctor than any other medical doctor. But please be my guest if you find one that wants to cooperate and put you on a longer acting benzo like Valium or Klonopin to taper off of. The only problem here is that such another doctor will most probably not share our thoughts and opinions and will try to put us on some other poison again by which we will hit full circle again or even worse ... Please don't mess with psychiatric medications. Don't do what I have done ... You don't need to go through all this bs like me. Just quit while you're still ahead. And taper off of them real slow. You will sleep at least 10 times better without them !

[[ne...]]

Hello everyone,

 

I know some of you are reading, and perhaps my experience will be of help to others. So, here's is an update:

 

I went to see another psychiatrist today. Long story short, I told her my symptoms and she concluded that I don't go trough W/D, but that I suffer from anxiety and that the solution would be MORE benzos, not less. Also, she wants me on a SSRI and an antipshychotic on top of that. At this point, I don't want to put my little scrambled brains trough any more neurotransmitter mess, even less reinstating! I'm horribly sick, but I rather die than going back. They annoy me with their "anxiety", I have known anxiety before (as I believe anyone in their life has), but anxiety doesn't look like that. Anxiety doesn't come with hypersensitivity to everything, with horrible pain all over the body, with electric shocks and convulsions. I don't buy that.

 

She told me that one shouldn't be scared of dependence, and that if one has to take a pill for the rest of their lives, it's better to do so, than to be the disfunctional mess I am now. I asked her what if you become tolerant to that pill and get sick from it? She laughingly replied: "Let's hope that doesn't happen!" So, so much for that.

 

Anyways, for the moment I am going to take out the z-drug nights and take the benzo I am already on in their place, as I see no logic behind their cycling since they hit the same GABA receptors and the z-drug makes me even more sick. I will hold the benzo dose for the next two weeks.

 

Will keep you posted as I move forward. My heart goes out to all of you that have to go trough this hell.

Lots of love, xoxo

[[me...]]

Good for you--run away from that! I can't believe how many doctors have just become drug pushers. Makes me wonder what kind of "goodies" they are getting from the drug company! There has to be a doctor out there who understands benzos, and can help you get OFF drugs. 

 

Hopefully you can find a bit of stability--have you tried splitting your dose to get a more even level? You might try checking in with the Xanax group (on support forum) for ideas about dealing with a shorter half-life drug, since that is the devil you know.

[[ne...]]

Hi Meowie,

 

Thanks again for your support and wonderful advice! I will look into the Xanax group.

 

As for splitting, I can't really do that, as my benzo is hypnotic, not anxiolitic, so I assume that I will probably be in a drunken drowsy state all day? Also, I get really fast heartbeats, bad shaking and extreme anxiety after waking up, I'm not sure I would want this to happen more than once a day. But I might give it a try.

 

I will keep looking for another supportive doctor, but as I live in a small town it's hardly likely that I'll find one.

Christ, why does nobody believe that benzo addiction exists?! 

 

[[ne...]]

Hello dear friends,

 

Thank you all for your input, it has helped me immensely in my understanding and decision making. I persisted with the pdoc route, I went back in to hopefully get some Valium. Of course the doctor didn't believe I was going trough W/D, he said that he has never once seen in his whole career somebody become dependent on benzos after such a short time ( I used for 4 moths). I asked him: "Then why do they put the warning no more than 2-4weeks on the label?" He replied he has patients on them for years and still won't believe it's dependence. I pushed however for a 10mg Diazepam prescription and in the end he was willing to write it to me. Even though he probably thinks I am  completly out of my mind insane.

 

Long story short, I can now start a Valium substitution taper, but I am still confused about the way in which Diazepam acts on our bodies. I mean, the terminal elimination half-life of the active metabolite N-desmethyldiazepam is up to 100 hours. If one would be dosing daily, wouldn't that mean some overlap, in that the Diazepam accumulates and that eventually you'll get to a point where Diazepam is several times more concentrated in your blood than the indended dose?

 

I'm am currently on a short-acting benzo equivalent to 7.5mg of Valium. I think of crossing over, but I don't really understand this aspect and I want to avoid doing more damage to my brain, as I am already very very ill and don't want to go back to a higher dose/reinstate/kindle.

 

Sending you all my love.   

[[me...]]

Hopefully you will start to feel better on a steady dose of diazepam. Unfortunately not everyone adapts well to diazepam, but if you are having strong interdose withdrawal symptoms, it is probably worth the risk. Don't worry about the long period for elimination--much of the dose is eliminated quite quickly.

 

It is true that your period of usage was only 4 months, and broken up at that. You are considered a short-term user. So it may be quite possible that you can taper quite quickly. On the other hand, you may need to taper at the recommended rate. The important thing is to listen to your body (I would take notes, my brain was fried most of the time!). Your body will tell you what you need to do if you listen carefully. If dosage drops only result in minor symptoms that resolve quickly, you can go faster, if it is hard, you need to slow down.

[[ne...]]

Hi meowie,

 

Your advice has been incredibly helpful to me so far (I did in fact feel better after dropping the z-drug and replacing it with benzo-only days), and I thank you from my hear for your support. You are awesome! I will keep and mind what you said about the tapring; also the note taking is a good idea, maybe I will start a blog. My brain is pretty scrambled and chaotic too at the moment, I have a hard time remembering what I ate this morning, let alone what was happening two days ago, lol!

 

Congrats on coming this far, wish you well! Hugs! xoxo