Cut off cold

[[Es...]]

Hi, I'm Michael,

 

I've been taking 2mg then 1.5 mg lorazepam for at least 12 years for sleep and anxiety.  At my last VA physical, the said I have no Lorazepam in my urine.  They tested the same sample again, same result.  Then another fresh sample plus a blood test.  No drugs in my system it said.  So they say no more lorazepam for moi.

 

Problem is, I was taking it religiously, and had taken it both nights before testing.  I don't know why there are no metabolites in my urine. 

 

Bigger problem is, Mikey feels terrible about now.  Have only take .5 mg twice in almost 2 weeks, when it become unbearable, either from lack of sleep, or heart pain. 

 

I'm taking passion flower extract, Arnica, and supplementing with GABA to ease the pain and feelings of anxiety. 

 

I don't know what else to say.  How long is this going to last? What can l do.  I'm not feeling good at all. 

[[me...]]

Welcome to the forum! We're glad  to have you as a new member.  Many of our members have had their prescriptions cut off for various reasons, it happened to me once, and it's not fun, I know.

 

You'll find lots of information and support here.  Our members have been through all aspects of withdrawal, and you're likely to find  people who understand what you're going through.

 

For those who are starting a new taper, we suggest reducing no faster than 5-10% every 10-14 days at first, and then adjusting the taper rate to suit your own needs.  One exception: very short-term users of a few weeks or less may be able to taper faster.  Having some withdrawal symptoms is normal, especially near the end of a taper and for a few months after discontinuing the medication.  First/only withdrawals after a slow taper tend to be easier than multiple reinstatements/withdrawals over time, which may make symptoms worse and longer lasting. The most common symptoms are anxiety and insomnia, but there are many others. These are temporary and will go away in time.

 

Here are a few links you may find useful:

 

Post Withdrawal Support Board

 

The Ashton Manual is an authoritative source on what to expect in withdrawal and recovery.  Dr. Ashton is an expert in the field. Section III explains and describes symptoms, and there is also a section with suggested taper schedules.

 

Please take the time to Create a Signature.  This will allow others to see where you are in the process so they can better support you.

 

Again, welcome!

 

 

[[Es...]]

Curious thing is, I've done all the class and internship to be an addictions counselor.  I've read the Ashton Manual inside out, upside down and backwards, and still the VA says they're not giving me another benzo to withdraw from the Lorazepam.  They claim I'd wind up addicted to two benzos. 

 

I really don't want to go doctor shopping.  I've tried several times before to titrate down and stop taking them.  The best I've ever done was three weeks off them.  Then symptomology came back so strong I couldn't walk and was having involuntary movements.  At the worst, one VA doc said I could drop 1mg, and I had a chest spasm and a gastric bleed out. 

 

This time is different though, with the VA saying no more lorazepam, 'cause you weren't taking them, because they didn't show in your drug scan, they feel I've been doing something else with them, which is simply not true.  I have no reason to say false things here.  I'm a strong believer that the truth will make us free, so I've got to make it off them this time. 

 

I really thank everyone for being here and for the support this board is giving to so many. 

 

I was feeling really bad when I wrote my introduction, then poured a cup of Sweet Tangerine Positive Energy tea, got a phone call from my departed's uncle who I hadn't talked to in a long time.  Those two things made me feel better.  I didn't mention benzo withdrawal to him, but we talked about his departed wife's alcohol dependency. 

 

Oh, and since I was having heart pain again, I did take .5 mg of lorazepam.  They've been giving it to me in .5 mg tablets, so it's easy to take less.  Maybe that's part of why I feel better too. 

 

What will taking the .5 do to my overall long term withdrawal.

 

Again, thanks for being here and having this forum.

[[Es...]]

With the combination of the Sweet Tangerine Positive Energy Tea, and that .5 mg of Benzo, I now feel better than I think I should, so next time I get heart pain, or too spaced and aching from not sleeping, I'm going to try only .25 mg of Lorazepam....and see how much. that helps.  Maybe taking it slower to total withdrawal will be easier for me this way.  What do you think?

 

I have probably 100mg or more to titrate with, so I should be able to make it to zero, is my hope and feeling.  We'll see.  What do the more experienced think about this.

 

And Megan, thanks so much for the warm welcome.  I definitely appreciate it.  Am an artist too.  Glass Artist.  I've been pretty unmotivated, always too many other things, to get much work done for the past few years.  I'm hoping that'll be changing too.

 

Again, thanks for this forum.

[[Lo...]]

Any chance you can see a non-VA doctor? A 1.5mg-2mg Lorazepam for 12 years is enough to create profound changes to brain/body/CNS chemistry.

 

I really don't think you want to stop this cold. Yes, Passionflower, Valerian Root or Chamomile Tea may be helping me getting off of a couple of miligrams of Valium, but there's no way these can actually replace benzodiazepines altogether.

 

Believe me, you really don't want to stop this cold turkey after 12 years. Please don't. Please find any doctor outside of VA system that can help you. It's just not worth the suffering. Just isn't. Take care, be safe, and please find another doctor ASAP.

 

BTW, this is not addiction. If it were, you could get off of this with a 30 or 45 day rehab stay. Stopping these pills cold can cause some pretty severe autonomic Central Nervous System Dysfunction, and you don't really want that.

 

Best of luck.

[[Es...]]

Thank you for your words, LorazepamFree.  Your words feel like a warm friendly arm around my shoulders and I appreciate that. 

 

I agree that stopping cold isn't going to work, and I'm glad I still have some so I can take a little as needed when the symptoms ramp up too high.  It's the refills that have been cut off, it's not like I have zero lorazepam to work with.  Like last night, I took .5 mg, all the withdrawal symptoms disappeared, and I once again got that familiar relief of anxiety, and pain.  I slept like a baby last night, and feel great this morning, sipping another cup of Sweet Tangerine Positive Energy tea. 

 

We do have a Community health center, and I may go by there just to say hello and see what they'd have to say.  I'm older, 71, so have Medicare and it shouldn't cost me much to be connected with them too.  I do have a few more options with the VA.  I have a special number to call a nurse at our local clinic, and I've been telling her essentially what I'm posting here.  She says the psychiatrist will be back in a couple weeks and I might be able to talk with him then, and he might give me more lorazepam.  Not that I WANT more, but I may NEED more to stay safe in this withdrawal.  I want off this stuff, imagine what kind of a creek I'd be up if for some unforseen reason I couldn't get more lorazepam.  I truly WANT to be lorazepam free.  I don't mind feeling a bit ragged, but when the pain level go too high, and I have heart pain, to me that sounds like I'm entering a danger zone.  As it is, I have my stash of 100mg or so to use in titration.  I may be up the creek, but I do have a paddle.

 

So between still more potential options with the VA, our local health clinic, the support here, and my own knowledge of brain chemistry, I think I'll be fine.  As I mentioned, I'm symptom free this morning, feel good, have a positive outlook on life and the coming day.  I realize there's a high likelihood I've made major changes to my GABA system and it's going to take time for those receptors to get anywhere back to normal, if they ever will.  I have taken a couple neuroscience classes, so still far from being a neuroscientist, I'm not without some understanding of the rock and a hard place I'm between. 

 

I do want to let my withdrawal symptoms rise again, and try taking just .25 mg of lorazepam to see if that brings me asymptomatic again.  If it doesn't within an hour or so, I'll take another .25 and see where that brings me to. 

 

What's really good too, is becoming connected here too.  Support of others who've 'been here, done this', is very good and very helpful in all kinds of situations.  I appreciate you and everyone who's here. 

 

Thank you so much.  Friend kind of love to you and everyone. 

[[Es...]]

As I said above, I woke up feeling good.  Then within two hours, started feeling as though I was walking in pudding and having a hard time with balance, so I took .25 mg, and everything straightened out again. 

 

I had a very pleasant day with others, doing my work, selling my art, visiting with patrons, cleaning the place up, and feeling full of joy.

 

It's evening, and I'll see how it goes.  I've taken the Arnica for the pain I feel as the lorazepam drops out, some Passion Flower extract, and will take a bit of GABA later.  A small teaspoon worth of the powder.  I may or may not take another .25 mg of lorazepam, it depends if I notice symptoms of withdrawal returning. 

 

Another great thing! I called the VA nurse this morning, got her tape, and left a message.  Later her assistant called back to tell me a refill of lorazepam had been mailed late last week.  So now I feel less pressure/no pressure to make it all the way to zero on what I have, and there's no need to find another doctor, the VA is treating me as I would think they should.  Thank you for the suggestion.  Had the VA not come thru and become cooperative again, I'd have felt forced to find a back up supply.  I can relax about that now.

 

Something I notice about withdrawing is how happy I feel at times.  A peaceful joy welling up within me.  Great happiness from deep within.  I'm so glad.  It's definitely worth tapering off and becoming my true self again.  It's been a long time coming. 

 

Staying symptom free on the way off benzo's.  this is good. 

[[Lo...]]

This is great news, and I really am delighted to hear that things have worked out for you and that you are able to do things while in the midst of this. That is huge and very commendable. I definitely wish you the best in your quest to get off of these highly controversial pills and live your life the way it's meant to be lived.

 

Take care

[[Es...]]

Thanks Lorazepamfree2015.  I appreciate your encouragement.  I see today it's not going to be a linear escape though.  I wish you well on your continued success in staying off benzo's.  I look forward to not feeling the need to take any at all, I'm just not quite there yet. 

 

Woke up at 5am feeling a bit out of it, symptoms of unrest, as if not enough sleep.  Did my herbals, and still no relief in an hour after that, so took .25mg. Was soon back to sleep and it was noon when i woke up.  Was still out of it even after a shower and food.  Took another .25mg, got some sun and went back to sleep most of the afternoon.  What is my body up to?  I don't understand this sleeping, but it must need sleep or it wouldn't be asking for, and demanding it.  So it can have it.  Sleep I shall.  It's a different sleep than a benzo'd down sleep.  I think my body is in the process of returning to 'normal' whatever that might be, and is adjusting.  I look forward to a good night's sleep tonite too.  I'm sleepy again now, a few hours after my long afternoon nap.  Cancelled working today.  Will see what tomorrow brings. 

 

Sweet dreams everyone. 

[[Rx...]]

Feel for you, Escapingbenzos.  I will keep you in my thoughts and best wishes.

[[Es...]]

Thank you RXDamaged.... I think you're right, we do get damaged by these drugs.  Thank you for your prayers and positive thoughts.  I do appreciate and treasure them always, though especially on this journey departing from our old friends the benzo's. 

 

I haven't been posting here daily, still I want everyone to know I'm with you in thought and prayer. 

 

My journey of withdrawal is continuing, still at .75 mg a day mostly.  At times I do need to go up to 1.0 mg, which happens like once every three says or so.  I can feel my body starting to go into spasms in various places, face, hands, arms, legs, midsection, brain and neck areas, so I tap my dose up a tad, and along with my supplements am staying relatively, or at least somewhat symptom free. 

 

Pain is one side effect of withdrawal I deal with as well.  It seems that all the injuries I experienced while on Ativan are resurfacing and I can feel them again.  For instance, I had an auto accident and broke some bones in my feet.  I could feel those bones as broken again, yet they are not actually broken now.  The pain certainly came up, so with hot soaks and Arnica drops, that pain disappeared again.  In the years I've been on Ativan, I've taken some falls from high places, working on water towers, and though 'healed' then, those pains too return, and must be dealt with again too.  It is as if the pharmaceutical 'forgetting' of the pain is still there, held down only by the benzo.  When the benzo level repressing them is lowered, they return.  I wonder how long this will be going on? 

 

I'm grateful for herbal understanding, and using a lesser amount of benzo's.  I'm not depressed about going through this, I'm pleased I've made this decision, with the VA's help, to stop taking them.  I have to consider if this medication, Ativan, can shut down the mind and make me sleep, what else has it been shutting down? 

 

Sleep, for the most part is good, excellent most nights even.  Dreams are mostly good, and very vivid. 

 

I wonder how long of a journey this leaving Benzo's behind will be?  I'm in it for the duration. 

 

Thank you all for being here.

 

 

[[Es...]]

Am still here, withdrawing.  Am very impressed with this forum and the great care the moderators take with everyone.  Thank you all so much for being here.  Am hanging in at .75mg - 1mg a day to avoid more serious withdrawals.  Had a few days of anhedonia in which nothing but nothing gave even the slightest thought of enjoyment or pleasure.  Today I think it lifts some, and am glad.  Being here gave me a sense of pleasure is why I came to post.  Still, some days so dizzy I can barely get out of bed, then if I do it gets a bit better.  I could go on and on with symptoms, until I'd convince myself I'm a hypocondriac, but that's not the case.  Just working my way off, taking time, which seems so long going thru it, knowing a bit more benzo and I'd be fine, but no, no, no thank you very much. 

 

Have been apologizing to God, myself, the world, all that's Divine for falling into this trap and asking that when I do get free of Ativan, I never return to it. 

 

Again, thank you to all who are here, and to staff on this forum.

[[Ch...]]

Glad to hear this forum is a comfort to you, Escaping.  That's one of its main purposes. 

[[Bo...]]

I jumped off of Ativan after a few months once I found out what it was doing to me. I'm three weeks off now, feeling well. The exhaustion is the weirdest thing. Some days it's like I can't feel rested no matter how much deep sleep I get. I suppose it's a healing sleep. And I agree about pain suppression - for me it's more emotional pain that is coming through that was numbed before. Here's to natural health and feeling our pain and emotions in a timely way! All the best in your journey. 

[[Ch...]]

As a fellow Vet whose Benzos were cut off by the VA in 2016 without a meaningful taper I feel your pain.  Ativan has some peculiarities of its own different from Xanax and Klonopin that make it hard to get off of.  Please please please do NOT think I am bashing you, especially at your age of 71.....I went back to your very first post in August and can see that you are a wonderful person who reaches out to others who are suffering here at BB, not just asking for help.  I feel compelled to say that in reality you are NOT tapering off benzos, you have stated in most of your posts that you take a pill when you have symptoms and it is fairly consistent at 0.5-0.75 mg a day....the thing is, there is no way to get off this class of drugs without a committed drawn out tapering plan with thoughtful methodical dose reduction.  There are many ways to do it outlined here at BB, with cold turkey NOT ever being recommended.  I am sorry to say that most likely no matter what plan you choose you will have a period of suffering and a significant period of recovery.

That being said....why in God's name do you want off?  At your age why would you want to suffer through withdrawal when you don't seem to be in tolerance or kindling?  Even the VA's own policy, along with the FDA's position paper all say to NOT force a person to quit if the symptoms are not tolerable.  I can provide links to those articles or if you create an email just for that I can scan and attach these articles.  Even the manufacturers say not to force a person off in the fine print.

Again, please believe I am on your side and do not mean for this to be hurtful...I suffered for over a year to get off and stay off Klonopin, but I was in tolerance withdrawal every day and was losing my memory, making poor decisions, and being weird in general (not that I knew it at the time!!) after the VA fuc*ed me over.  But that event probably also saved my life, once I finally recovered a few weeks ago.  Someone in science has a reason for your urine to not test positive...and as you said there is no reason for you to tell less than the truth here....is your VA fairly close to you?  Can you offer to take your pills in front of a staff for a certain number of days and then get tested? The other option, and I resorted to this myself, is to save some of that exact specimen, and test it in front of them with a drugstore test.  Or take some of that same specimen to a local lab.  One place near me costs $75 and one costs $275!!!  The drugstore kits cost from $45-$100 and you can send in a sample in provided containers for that OTC company to test it if the results are not seeming to be correct.

Thank you for your service...I know from your age that you were a Viet Nam era Vet as I am, and that is a whole horror story in itself...but we survived.

[[Es...]]

Glad to hear this forum is a comfort to you, Escaping.  That's one of its main purposes. 

 

Yep, it's a comfort knowing everyone is here definitely.  Thank you so much!!! 

[[Rx...]]

Hope you are doing okay.

[[Es...]]

I jumped off of Ativan after a few months once I found out what it was doing to me. I'm three weeks off now, feeling well. The exhaustion is the weirdest thing. Some days it's like I can't feel rested no matter how much deep sleep I get. I suppose it's a healing sleep. And I agree about pain suppression - for me it's more emotional pain that is coming through that was numbed before. Here's to natural health and feeling our pain and emotions in a timely way! All the best in your journey. 

 

I'm still riding at .75 mg a day.  Some days I can't wake up, some days I can't sleep.  Lots of pain both physical and emotional these days.  Thinking of cutting back on some stressful activities and getting more exercise to see if that'll help.  Sometimes sleeping deeply seems to help.  I wish you the best in you're continuing journey too.....

 

I see others have made it and seem to be feeling and doing well, so I think we can too!! All the best in your journey.  Thanks for checking in on my thread here, say hello anytime!! 

[[Es...]]

Well, I was at 2mg a day, for years, then cut down to 1.5 mg for another few years.  They tried to take me from 2mg to 1mg, but I had chest convulsions and a gastric bleed out when the convulsions tore my esophagus so went back up to 1.5.  I had to beg for them to raise it back up.  I don't like snide VA shrinks telling me 'oh that wouldn't cause you have chest spasms, you're just drug seeking, get out of my office.....when right before my appointment I'd had lunch with someone who'd also had chest spasm's' and a bleed out when they'd been cut down too fast.  Makes me wish I'd fought on the other side sometimes, so help me.

 

So now I've taken myself down to .75 - 1mg a day....which is a 30% reduction.  Looks as though I'll be fine with .75 today, as I've only had .25mg so far, and will have a .5 mg to help me sleep and get past these involuntary muscle contractions in my legs and arms I'm starting to have.  Would like to not take any  this evening, but I can tell from the way my legs are jumping around it'll be better to take some than to stay awake all night jumping and jerking around.  Plus not sleeping at all drives me backwards too.  Today I was having a lot of half my face going numb off and on all day.  Fun stuff, isn't it?

 

Why do I want off at 71?  Well, for one thing I'm a 'young 71', or so I think and feel when things are going well.  I'm not 'old' yet.  Not at all.  Still run a business  though at a more comfortable enjoyable pace.  Do yoga, live a good life. 

 

Being able to be jerked around by VA docs seems like a perfectly good reason to want off for one reason....lol....I haven't had much for authority like that since I got out in 67.  Another is the flexy world we're living in.  What if something happened and no lorazepam was available?  I'd hate ot have to CT suddenly in a stressful situation. 

 

I might be able to convince the VA to let me stay on them, but how long would they leave me alone before they'd try ripping me off them again?  And sure as the sun comes up, the VA would. 

 

Oh, besides them not showing in my urine or drug blood test and being accused of selling them, giving them away, or just not taking them for some strange reason.  I don't like being called a liar, because I do my best to present things as I know them to be.  So like the opiates the VA gave me when compressed my L1 for several years, as soon as I can the VA can have their prescription back.  They told me ''no one gives morphine and oxicodone prescriptions back.  I told them 'Well, I'm giving you them back'. 

 

Sure, it wasn't fun stopping the opiates, and it took me several tries of tapering and stopping to do it, sick as a dog, you may know the drill, and it's not pleasant, but I finally made it with the help of NONI juice, which for some has 70% the pain relieving capabilities of morphine.  It worked like that for me.  I wanted to die before I found that, as the opiates were causing as much pain as the injury was, Made it free and clear from those. 

 

So I've lost my faith totally in VA medicine.  I think I could get a test somewhere else, not the VA's inaccurate lab, but why should I trust the VA lab for anything if I've been taking my meds as prescribed, like a religion for years and years and years?  I also bought an over the counter test once, for someone who was telling me they weren't on anything, but  I knew full well they were just by looking at them.  It never got used because they came down with cancer and freakin' died in a short order.

 

So by golly I'm gonna beat this too.  It may take awhile, but I'm in for as long as it takes.  I wish you the very best in your adventures.  I want to spend more time in here and let go of some of the other discussion forums I'm in that are anxiety producing.  That in itself may help....good talking with you friend, and I mean that!!  I came back and fixed a few typo's....want you to be able to read this at least....

 

 

As a fellow Vet whose Benzos were cut off by the VA in 2016 without a meaningful taper I feel your pain.  Ativan has some peculiarities of its own different from Xanax and Klonopin that make it hard to get off of.  Please please please do NOT think I am bashing you, especially at your age of 71.....I went back to your very first post in August and can see that you are a wonderful person who reaches out to others who are suffering here at BB, not just asking for help.  I feel compelled to say that in reality you are NOT tapering off benzos, you have stated in most of your posts that you take a pill when you have symptoms and it is fairly consistent at 0.5-0.75 mg a day....the thing is, there is no way to get off this class of drugs without a committed drawn out tapering plan with thoughtful methodical dose reduction.  There are many ways to do it outlined here at BB, with cold turkey NOT ever being recommended.  I am sorry to say that most likely no matter what plan you choose you will have a period of suffering and a significant period of recovery.

That being said....why in God's name do you want off?  At your age why would you want to suffer through withdrawal when you don't seem to be in tolerance or kindling?  Even the VA's own policy, along with the FDA's position paper all say to NOT force a person to quit if the symptoms are not tolerable.  I can provide links to those articles or if you create an email just for that I can scan and attach these articles.  Even the manufacturers say not to force a person off in the fine print.

Again, please believe I am on your side and do not mean for this to be hurtful...I suffered for over a year to get off and stay off Klonopin, but I was in tolerance withdrawal every day and was losing my memory, making poor decisions, and being weird in general (not that I knew it at the time!!) after the VA fuc*ed me over.  But that event probably also saved my life, once I finally recovered a few weeks ago.  Someone in science has a reason for your urine to not test positive...and as you said there is no reason for you to tell less than the truth here....is your VA fairly close to you?  Can you offer to take your pills in front of a staff for a certain number of days and then get tested? The other option, and I resorted to this myself, is to save some of that exact specimen, and test it in front of them with a drugstore test.  Or take some of that same specimen to a local lab.  One place near me costs $75 and one costs $275!!!  The drugstore kits cost from $45-$100 and you can send in a sample in provided containers for that OTC company to test it if the results are not seeming to be correct.

Thank you for your service...I know from your age that you were a Viet Nam era Vet as I am, and that is a whole horror story in itself...but we survived.

[[Es...]]

Hope you are doing okay.

 

Thanks for your concern...yes, more and less from day to day...making my way thru the process.  How are you doing these days?  Do you have anything popping up after not taking them for a while?

 

 

[[Rx...]]

Oh yes, still rough for me.

[[gi...]]

These bastards at the VA should be sued for doing this to you!  They're so irresponsible.  You have our full support here on benzo buddies.  Best wishes to you!

[[Es...]]

These bastards at the VA should be sued for doing this to you!  They're so irresponsible.  You have our full support here on benzo buddies.  Best wishes to you!

 

 

Thanks!! Your words express a lot of what I feel a times too.  I do need sleep sometimes.  Am authorized for up to 72 hours awake, then I'm supposed to 'check in'.  Thanks for your words and sentiments.  I really do appreciate you and everyone here. 

[[Rx...]]

Yeah, what a lousy thanks for your service.   

[[Rx...]]

P.S.  Something I did not mention earlier was that my urine tested for no benzos hours after taking a benzo just to be able to be driven to my first detox.  I could not get a valium taper in time after my uninformed cold turkey, so I voluntarily checked myself into a detox center.  My chemical anxiety and terror was that bad after the cold turkey, I couldn't even handle the trip without one and the detox center told me to take one to be able to make the trip there.  When the detox doctor told me no benzo showed in my urine, I was shocked, but figured they made an error.  Or perhaps this is a common thing with benzos not showing in urine?  Anyhow, coincidental, and I feel so bad for you that they insinuated what they did.

 

I had to have a second detox because the first one was cut short because my blood pressure went too low.