My sleep study results

[[un...]]

Got my sleep study results today. I am shocked? Are these studies accurate? I felt like I didn't sleep at all. Felt conscious the whole time worried if the wires would come off if it rolled over. Was overly aware of the chest straps and nose piece too. Anyway, they told me I slept 3hrs very fragmented. Is this possible?

 

The sleep psych told me that I should be over withdrawals since I have been clean 6wks. Pfftt. Then I told her about many people suffer long periods of time. Then she backtracked and said "well, they are the minority." 

 

Her recommendations - klonipin or antidepressants. Ughh. But first choice she said was CBT for insomnia. 

 

 

[[MT...]]

UN1,

 

I know it seems impossible to believe that you got that sleep. This seems to be what happens to all of us who get the studies. The monitoring picks up stage 1 and 2 sleep that often doesn't feel like sleep. We tend to only register sleep that goes all the way into 3 and 4. Still, it's good news of sorts. You can tell yourself that your situation, while it feels desperate and miserable, isn't as dire as it seemed. Your brain is doing what it can to keep you going with those short, excessively light sleeps.

 

CBT-insomnia is a very effective treatment for regular insomnia but not as much for wd insomnia but it can still be helpful. I did on an online program very early in my wd and it helped me decatastrophize sleep, I learned some skills and I still use some of the sleep restriction to consolidate sleep at times. I liked doing it online (UVAs "shuti" program) since I didn't have to leave the house.

 

What are your thoughts about what you'll do?

[[mu...]]

Time and only time alone will help heal.

 

I think Aloha did the sleep study and had the same kind of results even with taking 2 ambien's I believe.

 

I wouldn't trust these sleep studies at all as they are meant as a tool to find sleep Apnea which most of us do not have.  If I had all that crap hooked up to me on a good night I doubt I would still sleep.  So I believe you when you say you did not sleep.  Those machines can only tell someone so much.

 

As far as CBT not really sure how helpful that is either.  Maybe for some but in reality only so much you can do to prepare your body for sleep.  Eat right, relax, take warm bath/ shower, limit sugar, dark room, back ground noise, etc.....  CBT might be helpful to stop obsessive thoughts but I read info on it and it def was not a cure-all.

 

 

[[un...]]

I am not sure if I will do the CBT. I am thinking about it. I am also trying to avoid taking any meds. The sleep psych thinks going on an AD and controlling anxiety might help. Don't think it is just anxiety. I think this is a different animal to not experience sleepiness.

 

I am still in disbelief that the sleep study registered 3 super-fragmented hours. I felt wide awake the whole time.

 

I haven't felt rested since my Remeron withdrawal. That's about 8 months now.  Need a break already. 

 

I am feeling stuck. I am going to have to force myself to exercise with the hopes of neurogenesis kicking in or maybe slight help with sleep. 

[[MT...]]

UN1, you'll get better at managing that feeling of not being rested. I often think of what they say about the Inuit having a gazillion names for snow. There are a gazillion different kinds of fatigue. There are degrees of body fatigue, degrees of drowsiness and brain fatigue without drowsiness. So many gradations of all of these different things.

 

I think the exercise is really worth it. It's an enormous help with the mental/emotional part of all of this, it decreases restlessness and it helps nudge the brain more towards sleep. Heck, just having something you plan and then do (even for a just a few minutes) gives a sense of accomplishment that is helpful.

[[al...]]

I am not sure if I will do the CBT. I am thinking about it. I am also trying to avoid taking any meds. The sleep psych thinks going on an AD and controlling anxiety might help. Don't think it is just anxiety. I think this is a different animal to not experience sleepiness.

 

I am still in disbelief that the sleep study registered 3 super-fragmented hours. I felt wide awake the whole time.

 

I haven't felt rested since my Remeron withdrawal. That's about 8 months now.  Need a break already. 

 

I am feeling stuck. I am going to have to force myself to exercise with the hopes of neurogenesis kicking in or maybe slight help with sleep.

 

What ever you do, do not get involved in any CBT that involves sleep restriction as a form of therapy. Turned out to be just about the worst thing that I tried for my insomnia. Might work for regular insomnia, but it will just deprive you of sleep even more while going through a withdrawal.

 

As to your mystery sleeping...I am fully convinced that we are often sleeping much more than we are aware of even though it is very light and very fragmented sleep. It seems that when we slip into shallow stages of sleep and don't reach REM stage with dreams, we have no way of really knowing it. It is my belief that our minds simply fill in the blanks that are created when we slip under and we are more or less tricked into thinking that we had a continuous period of being awake. I am pretty sure that the equipment used to monitor sleep during a sleep study can tell the difference between brain waves that are the result of sleep from those that occur when we are awake. I think that if you were actually denied that light sleep every night bad things would happen or at the very least, you would be a much bigger basket case in the morning.

[[me...]]

As to your mystery sleeping...I am fully convinced that we are often sleeping much more than we are aware of even though it is very light and very fragmented sleep. It seems that when we slip into shallow stages of sleep and don't reach REM stage with dreams, we have no way of really knowing it. It is my belief that our minds simply fill in the blanks that are created when we slip under and we are more or less tricked into thinking that we had a continuous period of being awake. I am pretty sure that the equipment used to monitor sleep during a sleep study can tell the difference between brain waves that are the result of sleep from those that occur when we are awake. I think that if you were actually denied that light sleep every night bad things would happen or at the very least, you would be a much bigger basket case in the morning.

 

Yes, everyone that I've heard of who has done the testing, has registered much more sleep than they thought possible. Stage 1 sleep doesn't feel like sleep, it is very light, and 90% of those woken from stage 1 don't believe they have slept. 60% of those woken during stage 2 did not believe they were asleep. I think the results are rather comforting--the brain is finding a way to rest despite everything. If we can trust our bodies to heal and rest enough, that is most of the battle with insomnia.

[[un...]]

Meowie, Aloha, MT...

 

Yes, it is reassuring from the sleep study that I will probably not get physically sick/die or run into psychosis from the amount of sleep I am apparently getting.  But it really doesn't make my experience better... I feel brain-dead and have no motivation to do much at all.  I am usually a curious and talkative person and can hold a conversation on many topics.  I have become introverted and am finding it really hard to start up conversation and share my opinion on things.  Is this common in withdrawal?  Wonder if this is more a depression/anxiety thing or an insomnia thing?  I have been reading up and watching videos about neuroplasticity... maybe if I follow some of the tips on how to re-grow/rewire the brain, it will help to get out of this brain-dead state.

 

I am been keeping a daily sleep journal but I guess it is very hard to say accurately how much I sleep anymore.  I guess it is just an estimate based on how I feel or if I think I was in a deeper unconscious state.  So far, the last 4 days I have been alternating between feeling like I got 1-2hrs and then zero.  This is an improvement from the once every 12 days and then once every week.  If only this pattern holds for the following few days I can truly say some kind of improvement and healing is happening. 

 

Marching through Hell... Day 45...

 

[[Ch...]]

Got my sleep study results today. I am shocked? Are these studies accurate? I felt like I didn't sleep at all. Felt conscious the whole time worried if the wires would come off if it rolled over. Was overly aware of the chest straps and nose piece too. Anyway, they told me I slept 3hrs very fragmented. Is this possible?

 

The sleep psych told me that I should be over withdrawals since I have been clean 6wks. Pfftt. Then I told her about many people suffer long periods of time. Then she backtracked and said "well, they are the minority." 

 

Her recommendations - klonipin or antidepressants. Ughh. But first choice she said was CBT for insomnia.

 

Probably an argument could be made that withdrawal is indeed over.  However, what most medical types aren't fully aware of is that the recovery from having taken a benzodiazepine takes awhile.  And yes, we may be the minority, but for us, this is a life-changing, significant process that shouldn't be belittled by our doctors.  Hopefully they will be enlightened before too long.

 

At six weeks off I was still barely sleeping.  From posts here, this is common.  It can take months (or longer) to restore sleep patterns.  I slept alone in a cool, dark, quiet room with a recording of ocean waves in order to begin the process of sleep restoration.  It's very frustrating, I know. 

 

If it were me, I'd give it more time before I tried any new medications (never Klonopin or any other benzodiazepine or z-drug, I'd have to say) or behavioral therapy.

[[al...]]

Meowie, Aloha, MT...

 

Yes, it is reassuring from the sleep study that I will probably not get physically sick/die or run into psychosis from the amount of sleep I am apparently getting.  But it really doesn't make my experience better... I feel brain-dead and have no motivation to do much at all.  I am usually a curious and talkative person and can hold a conversation on many topics.  I have become introverted and am finding it really hard to start up conversation and share my opinion on things.  Is this common in withdrawal?  Wonder if this is more a depression/anxiety thing or an insomnia thing?  I have been reading up and watching videos about neuroplasticity... maybe if I follow some of the tips on how to re-grow/rewire the brain, it will help to get out of this brain-dead state.

 

I am been keeping a daily sleep journal but I guess it is very hard to say accurately how much I sleep anymore.  I guess it is just an estimate based on how I feel or if I think I was in a deeper unconscious state.  So far, the last 4 days I have been alternating between feeling like I got 1-2hrs and then zero.  This is an improvement from the once every 12 days and then once every week.  If only this pattern holds for the following few days I can truly say some kind of improvement and healing is happening. 

 

Marching through Hell... Day 45...

 

Uncomfortablynumb1,

A lot of people feel the need to keep a sleep log. I too kept one at first, but threw it out after a few weeks. Keeping a sleep log while in withdrawal is like tracking the weather after it happens. It provides very little useful info and I would venture to say that it leads to a sleep fixation that can actually be harmful to you. What is important is how you feel day by day and you will know that without a log. General trends up or down is all that you need to be aware of. Just experience what is going on, try not to get too upset by the bad times and enjoy the good times is my advice to you at this stage in the game. Healing happens on its own.

[[me...]]

 

I'd have to disagree a bit about keeping a sleep log. I've been keeping a detailed log for 19 months now and I find it very helpful for me. For one thing, it quickly became a ritual to fill it out every morning, and once I did, after a bad night, I felt that it helped me express my discouragement and get the bad night behind me.

 

The other thing it has been helpful for is to identify what things cause my sleep to go sideways. If I suspect something, I can look back and see that yes, last time I took a B vitamin I also slept only about 2 hours. Insomnia fries the memory, having that record is invaluable. I can see general trends that are almost all positive. For instance, I just looked back and saw that I only had one night over the last month, that I would describe as "horrid" (0-1 hours), a new record low. Almost all other nights were 6-7 hours, fantastic.

 

But I try not to obsess about it, many times are guesstimates (no clock in my room). The general feeling about the night is far more important (do I feel rested?).

 

It may be too anxiety-promoting for some to log sleep, each person has to figure out what works best for them.

[[He...]]

what heped me: (Im sleeping 6-7-8 h)

 

- Exercice everyday in the morning, 40 min, until perspiration

- change my htoughts about sleep

- dont see the hours

- wake up everyday at the same hour

- 5htp

[[sl...]]

I had similar results on my sleep study. Convinced I only slept from 6 to 7 in the morning. Apparantly I slept close to 4 hours. However I woke up 6 to 7 times per hour. I guess then you feel like you have not slept at all.

Still, last night I know I did not sleep at all. I have been reading, eating, getting up etc. To hyper to even close my eyes. So some night are that bad.

 

 

[[un...]]

Yeah, really hard to believe the study. The hours really don't matter if you are waking up so much. The occasional times I sleep it always takes so long. Never feel sleepy so I don't even know how I even fall asleep. Pretty much no improvements since getting off Ativan 50 days ago. And I have not felt rested in 8 months now. This is becoming too much to handle. Really don't know what to do. 

[[sl...]]

did the study reveal your sleep stages? Was there some deep sleep?

[[un...]]

Surprisingly it showed a bit of deep sleep. Really don't know how. Did yours?

[[sl...]]

Same. It said i slept from 11 pm to 0.30 am. And got some deep sleep. I experienced being wide awake that time. Sooo weird. After that i was awake till 4.30 (my own observation and also the study results). After that 2.2 hours of very fragmented and only light sleep. In my opinion this was hardly 1 hour. 

 

[[sl...]]

I read that reinstate with remeron did nothing for you? Did you take the same mg that made you sleep before?

 

I am sorry to hear that trazadon did not work. I tried it once before and might try it again... getting desperate

 

[[un...]]

Hi,

Yeah, reinstatement didn't work. Really messed. Don't know what to do. Don't have many options. Getting minutes of sleep a couple times and one night of one or two hours per week. I am scared, anxious, and depressed. Improvement of regular hour or two per day would keep me going. Seriously don't know how I will survive this .

 

I am in your shoes but you could maybe still try a couple things maybe like Elavil or Seroquel. They work for some ppl.

[[sl...]]

Seroquel gave me very fast heartbeat

Never again. And telt like a zombie the day after...

[[al...]]

Hi,

Yeah, reinstatement didn't work. Really messed. Don't know what to do. Don't have many options. Getting minutes of sleep a couple times and one night of one or two hours per week. I am scared, anxious, and depressed. Improvement of regular hour or two per day would keep me going. Seriously don't know how I will survive this .

 

I am in your shoes but you could maybe still try a couple things maybe like Elavil or Seroquel. They work for some ppl.

 

Don't forget what you learned from your sleep study. You are getting a lot more sleep than you think. It may not be nearly as much as you would like, but it is enough to get you through this until more normal sleep starts to return.

[[un...]]

Hi Aloha,

 

Yes, if the study was correct the amount of sleep would probably prevent my body from breaking down and I would survive. My mind is more of the problem. Stuck in an anxious state. It is bizarre. It makes social situations so uncomfortable even with family. Distraction and social activities would help get me through this mess so it is beyond frustrating. 

 

Last night I felt unconscious for probably 2-3hrs. Wasn't consciously tossing and turning. But still didn't wake up feeling much better. Maybe it would require several nights in a row like this or 4-5hrs. Maybe it should be expected to feel like crap on 2-3hrs. Oh how I miss the old times when I could drop off within 15-30min and sleep a restful 6-8hrs and even nap. Will that ever happen again? You said you had a really good stretch of 3 days. Was it normal sleep how you remember in a past life? Feel rested?

[[al...]]

Uncomfortablynumb1,

 

Your sleep will return some day. It may take some time, but time always passes no matter what is going on. As you have heard before, the healing is not a linear process. You get better in fits and starts with a lot of progress and retrogression. Over the long haul, the general trend is improvement. I have little reason to suspect that healing will not be total, but even if it isn't, it will be a lot better than what you are going through now.

 

I now fall into a fairly deep sleep within a relatively short period of time every night. Often I wake up in about 3 to 4 hours and on bad nights I have a hard time falling back to sleep or fall only into a more choppy REM sleep until morning. On good nights I just roll over and go back to sleep right away no matter how many times I might wake up during the night. All in all this is a very good improvement for me.

 

To answer your question, no I do not always feel rested in the morning. As I heal I seem to need more sleep and feel the effects of lesser amounts even more. I guess that I am no longer running on nervous energy so that is a good thing. Once I have my morning coffee everything is good however.

 

You are still in the thick of it and I feel for you, but the time will come when you will be able to offer advice to newer buddies instead of needing advice yourself.

[[sl...]]

succes stories on sleep make me feel better. I had 5 night in a row with only 1 hour of sleep the past week (other 2 night were 3 hours). This is really killing me. I am thinking alle the time: maybe I should just take Ambien (I know it is a benzo) for the rest of my life (am38yrs old) or try Trazadone once more (made me very depressed, but maybe I need to take it longer than I did) or maybe I need to quit my job (which is stressfull, but with sleep good to handle...without sleep it is hard).

Just don't know what to do anymore.

 

[[un...]]

Well, hopefully one of us will see some significant positive change. 50+ days off for me, only 30+ if you include the night I took a 15mg zopiclone. Sucks if rescue doses set you back to day one. If so, it wasn't worth the 3-4hrs of crappy sleep it gave me.  I have gone from recognizing sleep every 12 nights, to 7, to 6. It is dreadful and hard to survive but I am hoping this trend continues. Maybe I won't have to wait 6 nights this week, and only 5 or less.   

 

It has been around 100 days for you now? I would think you should be seeing some kind of improvement in the next month. Ambien will give you crappy sleep and I bet you will build up tolerance fairly quickly. If you were in your 80's it wouldn't be so bad. 

 

The theory is that our receptors have become down-regulated along with less Gaba swimming around. Who knows how long it takes to start up-regulating...