Tolerance withdrawal poll

[[er...]]

I'd like to take a tolerance withdrawal poll. When I first joined almost a year ago I never heard about tolerance withdrawal, now it seems like everyone's going through it. It's like when I was going to AA meetings (big mistake) a number of years ago You never heard bi-polar depression being mentioned then when one person claimed to have it, it was like the doctors started jumping on the bi-polar bandwagon and all of a sudden 80% of the people in the room  had it. Now one forum expert says it's rare then another expert says it's common. Which is it?

 

Also at these AA meetings there were AA 'doctors' that used to tell junior members to stop taking their medication/medications because if they stayed on them it meant that they were not really sober. The result was that you had people going out and killing themselves. I see forum 'doctors' telling members here not to listen to their real doctors.

All doctors aren't stupid and wrong all the time.

[[Te...]]

Ernie,

There has been a thread in this subject. We all agree that tolerance- the body's adaptation to a dose, is not the sane as tolerance withdrawal. Whether tolerance withdrawal is a real phenomenon or a misnomer is a matter  of debate. There is little scientific documentation of it, but then again, there isn't a lot written about what long term benzo use does  to the body. That's why this forum exists.

It seems to me, based on what I've read, there is a great deal of consistency in what people describe happening to them while on these drugs and even after they've tapered off. Looking back, I experienced adverse effects almost immediately  after I started benzo use, with worsening symptom. over time until I had a health crisis a doctor linked to the benzos. It's unclear whether these symptoms were tolerance withdrawal, or just adverse effects coupled with the damage the drugs to to the CNS and the adrenal system over time. It seems to me the phenomenon is real, but the name-tolerance withdrawal- might be wrong.

TeeCee

[[ly...]]

 

 

I'm quite sure that I was experiencing "side effects" on xanax and not tolerance wd.  I had an entirely different constellation of symptoms on a high dose of the drug vs what I have experienced in wd.  No overlap whatsoever.

[[bu...]]

 

 

I'm quite sure that I was experiencing "side effects" on xanax and not tolerance wd.  I had an entirely different constellation of symptoms on a high dose of the drug vs what I have experienced in wd.  No overlap whatsoever.

 

Yes, it is common for benzos to cause numerous side effects, and paradoxical effects.  Also, as benzos only can provide temporary relief from the sxs of the original disorder, many folks will experience a gradual return of the original sxs.

[Guest [Lu...]]

yes.

 

Some people call it tolerance withdrawal, some do not, but all I know is I started having full blown withdrawal symptoms while still on my full dose. totally whacked out of my face 24/7 and terrified what the hell was wrong with me. ive been "boaty", agoraphobic, dizzy, exercise intolerant, adrenaline messing with me (god i cant wait to get back in gym!!) etc etc etc for 15 months now and for half of that, i had NO idea one could feel like that because of benzos.

 

mind you, i was an alcoholic though, and i finally went sober 3 1/2 years ago. my withdrawal from that followed a sort of classic alcoholic recovery pattern (bouts of withdrawal come in 30, 90, 180 days, etc. its uncannily like clockwork), that melded into super heightened anxiety attacks, then right into benzo withdrawal. all this while on my original dose of diazepam. it never occurred to me at the time but i have no doubt going ct with alcohol while on my benzo sent me into this spiral. i had to quit though. i really think quitting alcohol while on my benzo was sorta akin to suddenly cutting my benzo in half. im taking out of my rear end here, but looking back now on how it all played out, it was as if i went from like 40mg diazepam to 20, or something to that effect. no idea at the time what was happening....

 

tapering SUCKS like this.

 

everyone here says take your time, take your time. its hard to take your time when you feel like youre in acute withdrawal everyday of your life for sooo long. im tapering as fast as i can stand it (still seems slow). i feel the cuts, but honestly, the worst i felt was when all this really first hit, i was totally zonked out while on my full dose, holy crap was i shot for over 8 months, delirious and exhausted. im seeing the light now down to 5mg from 20, but im still whacky feeling. i really never get a window or a period of normalness. i did find a thread a few months back of a guy who seemed to have experienced what i have, or at least as close as ive seen here thus far, and he said similar things, and also powered through his taper best he could.

 

if it wasnt for my job, (which has been extraordinarily difficult and a miracle im still hired, my performance was terrible in 2016) id ct in an other month or two and ride it out, ive already been through the ringer, near blackouts, complete exhaustion, etc.

 

so....i guess chalk me up for tolerance withdrawal, what happened to me is way beyond just side effects, its withdrawal. granted my alcoholism played into it, but i was zonked out of my face long before i even knew that was possible, long before it ever even occurred to me to taper. i started tapering actually with no idea, no direction, it was the only thing left i could think of that would have me feeling so messed up. then i found this place. thank the gods for you guys here and this place, cause it was terrifying having NO idea what was happening to me when this all started.

 

sorry guys, totally whining, rambling an essay here. , im also loopy from tapering off psychiatrist prescribed gabapentin which did absolutely nothing but fog me up even more, mess with my vision, blow up my stomach and make me dizzier. i understand people have all kinds of issues and pains, etc, so im NOT dissing anyone for taking it or any prescription they need or believe they have to, but gabapentin for an otherwise healthy person is just ludicrous to prescribe for withdrawal. i know a lot of folks take it for various issues, but all its been for me is another drug fogging up the works. as i come down off of that my vision is clearing up big time, and my gut is telling me, yep, get the hell off it. i want to be clean of EVERYTHING. the psychiatrist had me at 1800mg gaba and thank the gods i very quickly decided no no no, and rapidly came down with little issues, im at 300 now and for the sake of smoothness ill probably just hold at 300 and jump off that after im off diazepam.

 

if i survive all this, at least an anxiety attack will be a walk in the park after all this, hell i almost miss the ole days, a good ole standard panic attack! would be like an old friend after the horrors of withdrawal!

im being sarcastic there...silly...but....

[[Te...]]

Luke,

Although I wasn't a full blown alcoholic, in the last two years of my benzo use, I was in tolerance, and was drinking too much to offset the anxiety I was experiencing over real issues I was dealing with. When my stomach went kablooie and I began to lose weight and have no energy, I C/T'd alcohol. The benzos are probably why I didn't end up in the hospital with alcohol withdrawal. Alcohol and benzos do similar damage and the damage had been done. My insomnia, for which I was taking the benzos, worsened, and I often took melatonin and/or Benadryl on top of the k to sleep. That was tolerance at work. I can't believe I didn't see it then, and I'm lucky I'm alive.

In June of last year, I briefly and intermittently upped my k dose from 1.0 mg to 1.5. I didn't do it for long, as I felt worse. That's probably when I crossed over from "simply" adverse effects to what has been described as tolerance withdrawal. That's when the cluster of neurological abd neuromuscular symptoms that dogged me during taper, and now, began. Unchecked anxiety, agoraphobia, tinnitus, parasthesia, parsthesthesia meralgia,  twitches, head pressure, shortness of breath, joint issues - they began in that period of increased dosage, and, although diminished, these symptoms still persist. What is taking longer to heal are the symptoms that are not caused by withdrawal, but are a result of the damage these drugs cause - their adverse effects. These drugs badly  damaged my GI tract, my nervous system, and my adrenal system. So, yes, I think tolerance withdrawal exists, but I also think many of the symptoms common to all of us are adverse effects - damage caused by the drugs.

[Guest [...]]

I agree with tolerance, on the fence about tolerance withdrawal.  I personally suspect I was experiencing side effects the first time I was on Ativan, which led me to cold turkey it. I had to reinstate due to withdrawal, and am now tapering. Now I get interdose withdrawal because I take it once daily. Now tapering symptoms, yes, I get them too. I am just not personally sure though if I can call tolerance withdrawal, or tolerance symptoms.

[[er...]]

I was on a high dose of Xanax for years, 8MGs daily, then switched over to 6MGs daily of Klonopin and I never noticed anything until I started my taper. No cravings for more or anything like that. The taper's been a shit storm. I dropped .063MGs off of .5MGs about four days ago. I'll make another drop in around ten days. I'm taking it slow this time. I take some Gabapentin every couple of days. That seems to take the edge off. About 300 to 400MGs once every two or three days if I feel I need it.

[[Be...]]

As already explained, the word tolerance withdrawal causes some confusion because the thing people are trying to describe isn't tolerance or withdrawal. Ashton uses quotes around withdrawal when describing it. However, people use it to describe the appearance of symptoms when tolerance is reached. I think it is incomplete to say that it is Return of symptoms for which the drug was prescribed. In fact, though I think that is possible, I think it is not usually what is happening. Rather, it is the imbalance of brain chemistry and function at the cellular level that is causing the problem. This is why you hear so many complain of rebound effects of things the drug is designed to treat but which they never suffered from before. Ashton describes this well with her patients developing agoraphobia when they never suffered from it previously. Myself, muscle tightness, never had it except for withdrawal and now it is with me. To me this is a clear indication that the process of reaching tolerance invokes withdrawal-like effects.

[[NY...]]

Like many long-term users, I suffered tolerance withdrawal, or whatever you want to call it.  Many of my symptoms during tolerance withdrawal have improved or vanished now that I'm off, but the big ones (while I was taking 8mg of Klonopin!) were depression, anxiety, benzo belly, full-body edema, blurry vision, heart palps, on and on.  Raising my dose would help for about 6 weeks or so, then I'd fall back into it. 

 

TW is scary place to be, b/c many do not link their sxs to benzos, and think they're deteriorating in body and mind.  I felt so hopeless until I started to taper and realized the symptoms were from benzos, and that life would be worth living again if I got off and healed.  And everything I hoped for is coming true - during windows I feel so good in body, mind, spirit.  Better than ever in my life. 

 

Hang in there buddies.

 

Love and solidarity,

WR

 

 

 

 

[[bu...]]

As already explained, the word tolerance withdrawal causes some confusion because the thing people are trying to describe isn't tolerance or withdrawal. 

 

Actually, a lot of confusion.  And a lot of unnecessary anxiety!

[[ly...]]

 

 

This is what I had prior to tapering vs. during my taper

 

Side effects 8mgs xanax :  depression, anxiety, agoraphobia, edema, severe joint pain, headaches, hair loss, dry skin, eyes, mouth, extreme itching, muscle pain, heart palps, rage, no short term memory and ??

 

withdrawal during taper : flushing/sweating, elevated BP and HR, dizziness, neck strangling/tension, shortness of breath, chest pressure, tight band around head, wobbly head, sea legs, numbness, shooting pain in fingers and toes, tinnitus, benzo belly, weight loss/lack of appetite, excess saliva, tingling in lower legs and feet and ??

 

I've had nothing match up - at all.  The side effects disappeared almost over night when I cut from 8mg to 2mg.  They have not come back.

 

My wd sxs have decreased dramatically after slowing my taper.  So, for me, it was side effects and not any sort of tolerance withdrawal.  The physical problems were what caused me to look up xanax side effects which caused me to start tapering that same day.  I guess we are all different.

[Guest [Fr...]]

Im new here so I don't understand alot of this. I read the ashton manual and think i'm in some sort of tolerance withdrawal. I started to have symptoms while still on the same dose I took for years. That would mean I hit tolerance. The symptoms that appeared were not the symptoms I originally took the drug for. When I started to taper those symptoms got worse and more appeared. Not sure if I was any help. Trying to just getoff the stuff.

[[ca...]]

I never experienced tolerance withdraws. I can say however, that it is the tolerance that I built that pushed me to wean off considering the dosage I was taking was ineffective against what I was taking it for. It made me realize that I would be fine and I didn't need this garbage chemical lobotomy.

 

But no, never experience anything close to a tolerance withdraws