Barbiturate substitution for Benzodiazepines.

[[vi...]]

I've noticed when I use a barbiturate, for example Butalbital without caffeine, I can go several days without xanax  Now I understand xanax has a short half life compared to clonazepam, so I'm going to use xanax for this example. On the third day without xanax, I wake up with acute withdrawal syndrome.  only mild withdrawal such as so.e insomnia the first two nights.  I also know that one ( barbiturates/benzodiazepines) open the calcium channel longer and one allows more calcium ions to pass through the calcium channel each opening.  my question is  could I replace the barbiturate for the benzodiazepine And experience a quicker and pain free withdrawal if I substitute the barb for the benzo for say 18 days or does one literally replace the other.  Could someone explain the biology?  I'm pretty good with scientific explanations so non need to dumb it down too much.  ( I'll look up what I don't understand).  Thanks

[[vi...]]

I want to add that when I say no xanax for 3 days I mean cold turkey.  no barbiturates either.(sorry can't find an edit feature.)

[[lo...]]

They pretty much do the exact same thing that benzodiazepines do. They bind to the GABA receptors all over your body, and allow the chloride channel to be open longer, allowing for more intracellular Cl-. This creates a more negative energy space inside your cells, because they are taking up more Cl- than they should, which make them harder to 'fire' or activate, which requires a certain amount of positive energy.

 

Barbituates do other things too that benzos don't, and they are much less safe (in terms of lethal dose per weight)

 

EDIT

 

sorry I didn't read your post and realize you said the exact same thing haha...

to answer your question, no, I don't think it would make for a better withdrawal. It would only complicate it, you probably wouldn't even cover all the benzo withdrawals with a barb

[[vi...]]

Thanks for your reply, it was worth a shot.  😊

[[lo...]]

Yeah it sucks, we just have to endure these withdrawals. Good luck

[[wa...]]

They pretty much do the exact same thing that benzodiazepines do. They bind to the GABA receptors all over your body, and allow the chloride channel to be open longer, allowing for more intracellular Cl-. This creates a more negative energy space inside your cells, because they are taking up more Cl- than they should, which make them harder to 'fire' or activate, which requires a certain amount of positive energy.

 

Barbituates do other things too that benzos don't, and they are much less safe (in terms of lethal dose per weight)

 

/quote]

 

Is this true for opiods/opiates, too?  WBB

[[vi...]]

Is it true that substituting barbiturates for benzodiazepines works for staving off withdrawal but not the other way around?  A one way street so to speak?

[[lo...]]

They pretty much do the exact same thing that benzodiazepines do. They bind to the GABA receptors all over your body, and allow the chloride channel to be open longer, allowing for more intracellular Cl-. This creates a more negative energy space inside your cells, because they are taking up more Cl- than they should, which make them harder to 'fire' or activate, which requires a certain amount of positive energy.

 

Barbituates do other things too that benzos don't, and they are much less safe (in terms of lethal dose per weight)

 

 

Is this true for opiods/opiates, too?  WBB

 

not even close. It's a completely different set of receptors, transmitters, everything.

[[wa...]]

thanks, Love - I'm an oldtimer taking tiny dose oxy for old back surgery prob and, although I feel bad the next day - the pain is too great.  WBB  ( I would not recommend playing with an opiate to make benzo w/d easier)  WBB

[[vi...]]

other opoids/opiates will work for staving opioid/opiate withdrawals though.  But you are just substituting one dependency for another.  For example Dilaudid will prevent ( at the correct dose)  withdrawal of heroin and vice versa.

[[me...]]

From my understanding, some of the detox places do exactly that--substitute a barbiturate for the benzo for withdrawal. Doesn't seem like a great idea for a layman to play with though, and I have no idea how you would work out the "supply" issues.

[[wa...]]

From my understanding, some of the detox places do exactly that--substitute a barbiturate for the benzo for withdrawal. Doesn't seem like a great idea for a layman to play with though, and I have no idea how you would work out the "supply" issues.

Psych hosps and detox often give alcohol w/d patients phenobarb to reduce the risk of seizures and d.t.s which may be the thinking for substituting barb for benzo.  WBB