Benzo wd clinical study using valium substitution

[[mr...]]

Not sure if this was posted already.

 

PDF

http://file.scirp.org/pdf/OJPsych_2016042910224222.pdf

 

http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?PaperID=66128

Benzodiazepines are psychotropic medications for effective management of anxiety. However, after over 50 years of unrestrained prescription use, prescribers realize the severity of side effects in select patients. The most challenging of these side effects is the emergence of a physiological dependence that explains virtual impossibility of successful withdrawal that can ensure sustained abstinence. We propose a method for successful withdrawal using substitution and innovative downward tapering of diazepam oral solution for all benzodiazepines to attain sustained remission. Our protocol reported here allowed not only successful withdrawal for all of 20 patients included in this pilot study but also helped in totally weaning them off of benzodiazepines demonstrating absence of relapse even 2 years after the total discontinuance.

[[fa...]]

This study certainly does follow Ashton's work; however, it looks like they outright substituted diazepam for the original benzo - which is different from Ashton's Method, involving a crossover and concomitant use of both meds.

 

There may be something to the oral formulation they tested.

 

Criticisms:

 

1.) The study doesn't tell us how long each subject was on their respective benzodiazepine before the trial.

2.) Only one subject was on only a benzodiazepine and they had Down syndrome. Patients with Down syndrome are thought to have hypersensitive or overactive GABA neurotransmission - among many other things - so, tapering may be easier.

3.) Nineteen subjects were on at least one other psychotropic medication.

 

 

It's good research that helps back up Ashton's work - especially for those on multiple drug combos.

[[be...]]

I once tried the liquid version and felt like I was going C/T..

[[fa...]]

I once tried the liquid version and felt like I was going C/T..

 

...and I'm not the least bit surprised, benzogirl. That's probably - in part - why Ashton found concomitant use of both drugs during most of the taper as the best approach and least problematic. A direct crossover can actually make symptoms worse in some people.  Patients that were coming from benzos like alprazolam and lorazepam WOULD feel like they were C/T-ing.  Even at the higher doses, Valium can seem virtually useless in withdrawal.

[[be...]]

I did a partial C/O to Valium and then tapered off 6.5 mg of K. Now I wish to God I did a direct taper. No problems with my K, just that Valium. Such a strange drug.

[[fa...]]

I did a partial C/O to Valium and then tapered off 6.5 mg of K. Now I wish to God I did a direct taper. No problems with my K, just that Valium. Such a strange drug.

 

Yeah. 'The Ashton Approach' is a great resource, but it is still an approach. It's best to taper directly, if possible. This simplifies everything.

[[mr...]]

I did a partial C/O to Valium and then tapered off 6.5 mg of K. Now I wish to God I did a direct taper. No problems with my K, just that Valium. Such a strange drug.

I agree with a direct taper now.

Valium causes way too many problems, but had no choice with my mom due to her respiratory failure from ativan.

[[li...]]

I guess you're pretty much screwed if you can't taper K directly and have great difficulty tolerating diazepam ...

 

I thought I'd posted a question somewhere about switching to gabapentin or Lyrica, without a real taper, per Reg Peart's ideas ...

 

That or diazepam, suggestions ?

[[fa...]]

I guess you're pretty much screwed if you can't taper K directly and have great difficulty tolerating diazepam ...

 

I thought I'd posted a question somewhere about switching to gabapentin or Lyrica, without a real taper, per Reg Peart's ideas ...

 

That or diazepam, suggestions ?

 

Klonopin has got to be the hardest benzo to quit/taper. Too many people state having problems coming off.

 

If you have really good insurance, Lyrica shouldn't be too much. It's more potent than gabapentin, but also more habit forming. Also, I wouldn't be on Lyrica/gabapentin and Klonopin at the same time. For me, it'd be one or the other.

 

You could crossover directly to Lyrica or gabapentin, stabilize, and then start tapering. Personally, though, I wouldn't want to stay on either of those two for too long. I'm not saying someone should execute a rapid taper, but it'd be best not to prolong the taper beyond what was necessary.

[Guest [Le...]]

'Switching' from a benzo to gabapentin or Lyrica doesn't really make sense because neither is a substitute for a benzo. Gabapentin is used during rapid tapers because it may slightly offset some side effects, but primarily it's to prevent convulsions. I used gabapentin for that purpose, so yay, no seizures.

 

Lyrica is a whole different thing. I was given that for a back issue and it made me sicker than anything the withdrawal did - it was like being in cold turkey acute 24/7.

 

If you're still looking for an easy way off 2mg of clonazepam, the sad answer is that there is no easy way. Switching between benzos is not going to make it 'easy' either, it will just make tapering different, kind of like choosing between boiling water or boiling oil.

 

The trick is to taper off slowly before the boiling point of either has been reached. That way you can enjoy 'mighty uncomfortable' as opposed to 'hellishly agonizing' withdrawal effects.

 

The only way to taper off is to bite the bullet and actually begin tapering. Otherwise you risk having several more years pass while you remain on the 2mg of clonazepam, still deliberating.

[[fa...]]

'Switching' from a benzo to gabapentin or Lyrica doesn't really make sense because neither is a substitute for a benzo. Gabapentin is used during rapid tapers because it may slightly offset some side effects, but primarily it's to prevent convulsions. I used gabapentin for that purpose, so yay, no seizures.

 

Lyrica is a whole different thing. I was given that for a back issue and it made me sicker than anything the withdrawal did - it was like being in cold turkey acute 24/7.

 

If you're still looking for an easy way off 2mg of clonazepam, the sad answer is that there is no easy way. Switching between benzos is not going to make it 'easy' either, it will just make tapering different, kind of like choosing between boiling water or boiling oil.

 

The trick is to taper off slowly before the boiling point of either has been reached. That way you can enjoy 'mighty uncomfortable' as opposed to 'hellishly agonizing' withdrawal effects.

 

The only way to taper off is to bite the bullet and actually begin tapering. Otherwise you risk having several more years pass while you remain on the 2mg of clonazepam, still deliberating.

 

Sure, very few people are afforded the luxury of a discomfort-free taper or post-taper period, but I think liberty is just tired of his struggle with Klonopin. He's posted several times about wanting to crossover to something else. I guess that's something he's okay with and willing to try.

 

I think after most people get a firm grasp on the nature of withdrawal and become educated enough, they realize the cold, hard truth, which you stated. For some, it's hard to face that reality - for one reason or another.

 

My turning point was when I said to myself, "I'm going to get through this and heal, or die trying."

[[li...]]

Leslie,

 

I've been beyond the 'uncomfortable' stage for quite some time now. Everything went to hell after the failed lorazepam taper. It's that bad that basically the clonazepam is keeping me together !

 

Were it not for some medical mistakes and unresolved health issues I would not be in this situation. tapering is harsh and really bad for my health when I'm healthy. I'm not. And because of the half life, even a normal taper would take 6 months after being on the drug for 1-2 years.

 

It's difficult to make a decision. I have some difficulty believe gabap/Lyrica will work ..

Yet, diazepam is so different and so messy (short duration of action, massive accumulation/half life) that I couldn't follow the regular protocol. I couldn't deal with the accumulation.

 

From what I understand, Lyrica is just stronger, physically more addictive, basically the same ?

I wonder if any anticonvulsant even covers the unique properties of clonazepam beyond seizing. Mental anxiety is not one of my issues. Unfortunately, in this country there just is no help at all.

Even regular healthcare is quite limited, and to see a specialist a mandatory referral is required. 'healthcare is a cost, not a service'.

 

 

[[2t...]]

My doctor told me to stop klonopin and start valium without a cross over taper, to say it was horrific is an understatement.

I have now tapered from .5mg of klonopin and am on .02mg and almost done, I don't think one method suits all.