Switching to liquid, sxs ramped

[[Da...]]

I switched my evening dose to liquid last night and my sxs have ramped up beyond belief since then. Could it be from switching to liquid?!

[[NW...]]

It certainly could be.  I switched from pills to Ativan liquid back in November, and I definitely noticed that the pills seemed stronger and hit me harder than the liquid did.  Because of that I made a point of taking my doses on an empty stomach, waiting 30-45 minutes before and after my doses to eat anything substantial.  As long as I did that, I felt I got the full impact of the dose.

 

Good luck and give it some time.  Your body will adjust.  Overall I've been happy with my switch to liquid as it made spreading doses easier, and made smaller cuts possible.

 

NWG

[[ho...]]

It certainly could be.  I switched from pills to Ativan liquid back in November, and I definitely noticed that the pills seemed stronger and hit me harder than the liquid did.  Because of that I made a point of taking my doses on an empty stomach, waiting 30-45 minutes before and after my doses to eat anything substantial.  As long as I did that, I felt I got the full impact of the dose.

 

Good luck and give it some time.  Your body will adjust.  Overall I've been happy with my switch to liquid as it made spreading doses easier, and made smaller cuts possible.

 

NWG

hi nw I've heard about eating when you dose your liquid, especially at first because it slows absorption. What's your take on why eating 30 minutes after dosing with liquid and why it helped you? Do you think it has something to do with absorption? Thank you.

[[bu...]]

I switched my evening dose to liquid last night and my sxs have ramped up beyond belief since then. Could it be from switching to liquid?!

 

No.

 

1)  Its the same med.

2)  1mg dry=1mg liquid

3) when you take a dry tablet, its liquid within seconds of hitting your stomach.

[[ho...]]

I switched my evening dose to liquid last night and my sxs have ramped up beyond belief since then. Could it be from switching to liquid?!

 

No.

 

1)  Its the same med.

2)  1mg dry=1mg liquid

3) when you take a dry tablet, its liquid within seconds of hitting your stomach.

builder in your opinion why do so many people say it revs up symptoms when going to liquid? Just because it's a different way of absorbing it? I've melted pills in my mouth before and did hit me harder. Why do people say this do you think?

[[bu...]]

 

builder in your opinion why do so many people say it revs up symptoms when going to liquid? Just because it's a different way of absorbing it? I've melted pills in my mouth before and did hit me harder. Why do people say this do you think?

 

 

Well folks get upset when I say this, but its because they expect it to have a different effect.  Interestingly, some folks say its stronger, some way its weaker.  Some say its faster, some say its slower.

 

But there is absolutely no logical reason why doing liquid should have any different effect!  As I said, its the  same med, 1mg=1mg, and when you take a pill, it becomes liquid in seconds.

 

Placebo effects are very real effects, they just aren't caused by what folks think caused them.  Many placebo effects can actually be measured in real variables...heart rate, respiration, blood sugar, perspiration, blood gasses, measureable biochemical levels, etc, etc.

 

Medical and pharmaceutical researchers almost always record placebo effects as part of med research.  Its almost as important as the direct med effects.  There are widely published studies for antidepressants that show placebos work almost as well.  That does NOT mean the antidepressant doesn't work, it means the placebo works just as well.  The placebo has a real effect, just like the active med.

 

Any doctor will tell you your expectations will almost always  influence how effective a course of drug therapy will be.  There is absolutely no doubt that your expectations will have a major impact on what you actually experience.

[[pe...]]

I disagree about its the same med.. i had no thoughts ofit being different when i went to a rx forumla liquid..and i went through hell for 3 weeks...and i mean utter hell.

When i switched back to tablets i had the same hell...as my GP would no longer prescribe the liquid..

 

Now would this be the case if i made my own liquid from the tablet im on. I think there maybe room for it to be easier who knows. Its a risk, but these scales are shit and i think are preventing me from coming down smoother and quicker.

 

[[ho...]]

Could it have something to do with the liquid crossing the brain blood barrier quicker? That is why 90% of people I've spoke to have had uptick in symptoms when switching to liquid? You ask any drug addict (I know many) how they take their pills whether pain pills or benzos, they liquify them. Why, because it hits them stronger. I've experienced it myself before withdrawal just by melting them in my mouth, because i didn't have a drink to swallow it near by. Why a few people feel no change I have no idea.

[[ho...]]

Even people with allergies to certain foods etc that have to carry epi pens around are recommended to carry liquid benadryl around as well, not the pills because the liquid hits faster. Why some of us here seem cannot tolerate liquid or have uptick of symptoms when first switching depends on each person's individual situation.

[[bu...]]

I disagree about its the same med.. i had no thoughts ofit being different when i went to a rx forumla liquid..and i went through hell for 3 weeks...and i mean utter hell.

When i switched back to tablets i had the same hell...as my GP would no longer prescribe the liquid..

 

 

 

Well, Pete, if you felt the same taking tablets as you did taking liquid, that certainly would seem to indicate that liquid wasn't any different. 

 

 

[[bu...]]

Folks, there is a whole world of accepted science that recognizes that placebo effects are both common and very real, but there is zero science that says liquid benzo have any different effect than tablets.

 

Why does everyone want to reject the logical explanation, and cling one that makes no sense?

[[ho...]]

Folks, there is a whole world of accepted science that recognizes that placebo effects are both common and very real, but there is zero science that says liquid benzo have any different effect than tablets.

 

Why does everyone want to reject the logical explanation, and cling one that makes no sense?

when I went in the hospital last year and the nurse talked me into taking a new calcium blocker (I was on previously a beta blocker) I got all freaked out but I took it. Anyone who has taken a heart medicine, they hit pretty quickly. Well I tell the nurse within a few minutes I'm starting to feel it. She said impossible it hasn't had time to dissolve yet. I understand the validity of the placebo effect but you know when a medicine hits you. I was asleep within ten minutes. Common for blocker meds. Liquifying drugs for abuse has been around for as long as as I've been alive. And like I stated I melted them in my mouth a few times because I didn't have something to drink close by. And BAM. this was before I ever knew about tapering, withdrawal or anything. Maybe because it was melted sublingually I don't know. All I know is I have questioned so many people and 90% or so say they had uptick of symptoms. I believe it's because it hits you harder and possibly for those of us who this medicine has become toxic to or we are in tolerance to it for whatever reason, it causes symptoms. Everybody suggests holding to get adjusted. There's a reason for that. Why I don't know.

[[ho...]]

I disagree about its the same med.. i had no thoughts ofit being different when i went to a rx forumla liquid..and i went through hell for 3 weeks...and i mean utter hell.

When i switched back to tablets i had the same hell...as my GP would no longer prescribe the liquid..

 

Now would this be the case if i made my own liquid from the tablet im on. I think there maybe room for it to be easier who knows. Its a risk, but these scales are shit and i think are preventing me from coming down smoother and quicker.

I have spoke to people that it took them a long time to recover from their liquid experience. Are you on pills now still? Any better?

[[bu...]]

Folks, there is a whole world of accepted science that recognizes that placebo effects are both common and very real, but there is zero science that says liquid benzo have any different effect than tablets.

 

Why does everyone want to reject the logical explanation, and cling one that makes no sense?

when I went in the hospital last year and the nurse talked me into taking a new calcium blocker (I was on previously a beta blocker) I got all freaked out but I took it. Anyone who has taken a heart medicine, they hit pretty quickly. Well I tell the nurse within a few minutes I'm starting to feel it. She said impossible it hasn't had time to dissolve yet. I understand the validity of the placebo effect but you know when a medicine hits you. I was asleep within ten minutes. Common for blocker meds. Liquifying drugs for abuse has been around for as long as as I've been alive. And like I stated I melted them in my mouth a few times because I didn't have something to drink close by. And BAM. this was before I ever knew about tapering, withdrawal or anything. Maybe because it was melted sublingually I don't know. All I know is I have questioned so many people and 90% or so say they had uptick of symptoms. I believe it's because it hits you harder and possibly for those of us who this medicine has become toxic to or we are in tolerance to it for whatever reason, it causes symptoms. Everybody suggests holding to get adjusted. There's a reason for that. Why I don't know.

 

1) Drug abuser liquify meds so they can shoot them, NOT so they can drink them.  And that path of delivery definitely changes things! 

 

2) Sublingual administrations definitely IS a different form of delivery, and it definitely WILL speed up  and intensify effect.  That's because sublingual administration allow the med to pass directly into the bloodstream, skipping the digestive process and skipping the first pass metabolizing/excretion in the liver.  But when you take a liquid med, it goes through the exact same process as a tablet.

[[bu...]]

...a couple more things to think about...

 

Why do some folks say liquid comes on faster, and some say its slower?  Why do some folks say its stronger and some say its weaker?

 

I actually learned about DLMT from Jana Hill, on the Benzo Detox Recovery website/message board.  Virtually everybody on the BDR boards were doing liquid tapers, but I never heard anyone say anything about having a problem switching to liquid.,  I never heard that until I came here to the BB forums.

[[ho...]]

Folks, there is a whole world of accepted science that recognizes that placebo effects are both common and very real, but there is zero science that says liquid benzo have any different effect than tablets.

 

Why does everyone want to reject the logical explanation, and cling one that makes no sense?

when I went in the hospital last year and the nurse talked me into taking a new calcium blocker (I was on previously a beta blocker) I got all freaked out but I took it. Anyone who has taken a heart medicine, they hit pretty quickly. Well I tell the nurse within a few minutes I'm starting to feel it. She said impossible it hasn't had time to dissolve yet. I understand the validity of the placebo effect but you know when a medicine hits you. I was asleep within ten minutes. Common for blocker meds. Liquifying drugs for abuse has been around for as long as as I've been alive. And like I stated I melted them in my mouth a few times because I didn't have something to drink close by. And BAM. this was before I ever knew about tapering, withdrawal or anything. Maybe because it was melted sublingually I don't know. All I know is I have questioned so many people and 90% or so say they had uptick of symptoms. I believe it's because it hits you harder and possibly for those of us who this medicine has become toxic to or we are in tolerance to it for whatever reason, it causes symptoms. Everybody suggests holding to get adjusted. There's a reason for that. Why I don't know.

 

1) Drug abuser liquify meds so they can shoot them, NOT so they can drink them.  And that path of delivery definitely changes things! 

 

2) Sublingual administrations definitely IS a different form of delivery, and it definitely WILL speed up  and intensify effect.  That's because sublingual administration allow the med to pass directly into the bloodstream, skipping the digestive process and skipping the first pass metabolizing/excretion in the liver.  But when you take a liquid med, it goes through the exact same process as a tablet.

I know many many drug addicts (due to past life)  who drink their pills. Not shoot them. But anyway hopefully thats why when I let the pills melt on my mouth it slammed me. So by me letting me melt in mouth thats sublingual? Or does it have to be under tongue to be sublingual?

[[ho...]]

...a couple more things to think about...

 

Why do some folks say liquid comes on faster, and some say its slower?  Why do some folks say its stronger and some say its weaker?

 

I actually learned about DLMT from Jana Hill, on the Benzo Detox Recovery website/message board.  Virtually everybody on the BDR boards were doing liquid tapers, but I never heard anyone say anything about having a problem switching to liquid.,  I never heard that until I came here to the BB forums.

I know I have heard on Janas site there wasn't all the stories like here. I don't know why some say slower, some say faster, food in stomach? I have no idea. I don't know why all the contradictions and everyone saying to "hold for at least two weeks to stabilize" etc. I just know I've questioned everyone I can find on liquid and I can say 90% say there's an uptick in symptoms or they were never the same after drinking it. No rhyme or reason. If I can ever stabilize after what I've done to myself I'm going to try the milk. As I have no other way out. Not using pg or alcohol. And scale can't figure out. So I'm not looking forward to another acute type symptoms after my massive mistakes. I've messed myself up so hearing be prepared for uptick of symptoms over and over again isn't something I'm looking forward to if that happens. Hopefully it will not.

 

[[ho...]]

Folks, there is a whole world of accepted science that recognizes that placebo effects are both common and very real, but there is zero science that says liquid benzo have any different effect than tablets.

 

Why does everyone want to reject the logical explanation, and cling one that makes no sense?

when I went in the hospital last year and the nurse talked me into taking a new calcium blocker (I was on previously a beta blocker) I got all freaked out but I took it. Anyone who has taken a heart medicine, they hit pretty quickly. Well I tell the nurse within a few minutes I'm starting to feel it. She said impossible it hasn't had time to dissolve yet. I understand the validity of the placebo effect but you know when a medicine hits you. I was asleep within ten minutes. Common for blocker meds. Liquifying drugs for abuse has been around for as long as as I've been alive. And like I stated I melted them in my mouth a few times because I didn't have something to drink close by. And BAM. this was before I ever knew about tapering, withdrawal or anything. Maybe because it was melted sublingually I don't know. All I know is I have questioned so many people and 90% or so say they had uptick of symptoms. I believe it's because it hits you harder and possibly for those of us who this medicine has become toxic to or we are in tolerance to it for whatever reason, it causes symptoms. Everybody suggests holding to get adjusted. There's a reason for that. Why I don't know.

 

1) Drug abuser liquify meds so they can shoot them, NOT so they can drink them.  And that path of delivery definitely changes things! 

 

2) Sublingual administrations definitely IS a different form of delivery, and it definitely WILL speed up  and intensify effect.  That's because sublingual administration allow the med to pass directly into the bloodstream, skipping the digestive process and skipping the first pass metabolizing/excretion in the liver.  But when you take a liquid med, it goes through the exact same process as a tablet.

well I just looked up the buccal method as another way that is between gum and cheek. I just have put them in my mouth a few times and it was intense, they weren't under tongue but just in my mouth all over. Well at least that makes me feel a little better knowing it went directly to my bloodstream hence the intensity.

[[Ca...]]

Well, i got an up KICK..  NO it wasnt placebo, and NO i didnt exoect it...

Nor do i think its the valium component...

I suspect that its the alcohol for me, combined with a rise in oral absorbtion... (i looked at other changes i had made, but they didnt add up to me as the days went by)...

The dose that realy threw me was my 2nd on day 1, and i just squirted the 10 ml mix in my mouth, it contained 2ml vodka..

Every other dose i have drank water pre and post dose... each dose got better over the next 4 days...

Tonight (day 5) seems fine...

I am very sensitive to alcohol from a mis spent youth, and suspected it straight away.... if in doubt, add water or juice or whatever...

pls dont let this put you off, thus far I am very happy to have all the benifits of a DLMT...

 

Just wondering if  10v in 20ml vodka and 80ml water is too high in alcohol for a normal 10ml (2v) dose...? (For the average person)... -just for future reference...

Thanks all...

 

[[jr...]]

I read many stories about people having an increase in their sxs when switching to liquid. I don't remember reading any saying the opposite. So, I done a slight update when I switched to liquid and didn't have any problems.

[[ly...]]

 

 

I had no issue whatsoever switching to liquid.  I had been putting pill pieces in my mouth to dissolve for months and noticed nothing different with that either.  I can even say that I was expecting that I may have an adjustment period with the liquid (from reading BB).  I had a very slight uptick due to starting the liquid about 4% lower than I was on pills.  I would not discount a placebo effect and/or anxiety over the switch causing a problem. 

[[ho...]]

 

 

I had no issue whatsoever switching to liquid.  I had been putting pill pieces in my mouth to dissolve for months and noticed nothing different with that either.  I can even say that I was expecting that I may have an adjustment period with the liquid (from reading BB).  I had a very slight uptick due to starting the liquid about 4% lower than I was on pills.  I would not discount a placebo effect and/or anxiety over the switch causing a problem.

now that I know how taking pills sublingual or buccal,  melted in mouth causes the med to bypass digestive system and go directly into the bloodstream explains why they hit me so hard. So I'm glad I can stop worrying about that. Why the uptick in symptoms in most I've spoke to (some not even knowing it could be an issue) I don't know. There's many variables that can cause it. It's the million dollar question.

[[bu...]]

I read many stories about people having an increase in their sxs when switching to liquid. I don't remember reading any saying the opposite. So, I done a slight update when I switched to liquid and didn't have any problems.

 

Here's one...I had zero sxs uptick when I switched to liquid.

 

And FWIW, I actually learned about liquid tapering on the Benzo Detox Recovery website/forum.  Pretty much everyone there was doing liquid, and I never heard of anyone having any issues switching to liquid.

[[ho...]]

I read many stories about people having an increase in their sxs when switching to liquid. I don't remember reading any saying the opposite. So, I done a slight update when I switched to liquid and didn't have any problems.

 

Here's one...I had zero sxs uptick when I switched to liquid.

 

And FWIW, I actually learned about liquid tapering on the Benzo Detox Recovery website/forum.  Pretty much everyone there was doing liquid, and I never heard of anyone having any issues switching to liquid.

everyone I spoke to from bdr said they never used the percentage method it was more of a mg reduction method. Is that because that method there was more symptom based?

[[Tw...]]

I switched my evening dose to liquid last night and my sxs have ramped up beyond belief since then. Could it be from switching to liquid?!

 

If your still struggling maybe just maybe your on too low of a dose! Dad, I've followed your story and can see your timeline of cuts and your way too low on the meds. Unless you never felt good on 4 mgs of K ever, then it's pretty cut and dry that your not going to improve by tapering slowly. Liquid, pill, find a dose to stabilize on and save yourself the suffering. Your fighting a loosing battle here. I'd hate to see you come all the way off and then start all over again, like so many have to, bc it's not tolerable.