Dr tell me benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome is not a medical term?

[[Ma...]]

Hi all. My doctor told me that benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome is NOT a medical term/fact. Also benzodiazepine tolerance is not fact. She said that there are no studies on benzo withdrawal and Professor Ashton was a professor in England which means nothing here in the US. She said the only term I can use is benzodiazepine dependance and that the mental and physical symptoms of withdrawal vary from person to person but are not a recognized disability or sickness at this time. Now I know this is all BS but I'm going to a new doctor and don't want to use these terms if they are just terms from BB or other websites. Wikipedia mentions withdrawal syndrome but that's all I can find. Does anyone know more about this subject. I'm sick and tired of being told this is not a real problem. 

[[Be...]]

Put the Dr. on Benzo for 30 days.

[Guest [Lu...]]

I neverrrrrr wish harm on anyone, in light of mine and some family members situations, but I swear to all that is holy I kinda wish the entirety of the general drs and mental health community in the country could all feel even just 30 seconds of how I felt at the height of tolerance withdrawal. I think they would be stunned one could feel like that. As I type this im slacking at another glorious day of work trying to act like the world isnt spinning, like i dont feel like throwing up and blacking out into a spiral of doom.

 

i tell my psychiatrist, who's a pretty cool guy, but who just doesnt totally get this, im like, "dude, you guys have NO IDEA how horrific this is, and i cant believe it."

 

isnt it amazing though that more dr's themselves havent gone through this simply by law of average?? theyre people to, many with issues. how could it be that seemingly NONE of them have gone through this??

[[Fi...]]

Hi all. My doctor told me that benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome is NOT a medical term/fact. Also benzodiazepine tolerance is not fact. She said that there are no studies on benzo withdrawal and Professor Ashton was a professor in England which means nothing here in the US. She said the only term I can use is benzodiazepine dependance and that the mental and physical symptoms of withdrawal vary from person to person but are not a recognized disability or sickness at this time. Now I know this is all BS but I'm going to a new doctor and don't want to use these terms if they are just terms from BB or other websites. Wikipedia mentions withdrawal syndrome but that's all I can find. Does anyone know more about this subject. I'm sick and tired of being told this is not a real problem.

 

I was writing about this very topic to a friend of mine earlier today:-

 

"...There is only very paltry research available on both the long and short-term (horrific) effects and after-effects of these drugs. Not surprising really, when one considers the overall control Big Pharma holds over both manufacturing profits and the dispensing professions in general. That is not to mention their political control which is rampant - especially in the States.

 

The standard ploy, from the industry and its agents, is denial that these medications and withdrawal from them cause any serious problems, or that there is any brain injury caused by use of the medications. ("withdrawal" includes tolerance and inter-dose withdrawal). The usual default inference, instead, is that the hellish conditions people who are in withdrawal go through 'must be' down to some "underlying" condition in each individual patient. The solution usually offered, if not insisted upon, is "more medication" and dosage increases. My heart goes out to the poor f#@k€rs who are embroiled in this scenario - with no one to believe them, with the status quo against them and with no way out..."

 

It is really criminal the way you guys are being treated, Matt. But the day will come when opposition to this catastrophe-in-American-medicine will become unstoppable.

 

Meanwhile, stay away from doctors except to source what you need and get on with your taper on your own terms. I'm not in the States, but that's what I did. 

[[je...]]

OK Matty - did your doctor mean that the England people are "different" from other countries' people?  WOW  Off the bat I am glad you are finding someone else!  It seems like your "She" doctor is splitting hairs with the medical jargon.

 

I agree with Fizzle that there haven't been as much study on benzos like other drugs probably because the U.S. pharm companies don't want this sh*t to get out to the public.  We Americans are the biggest users of ALL drugs!!!

 

I would hope someday that the medical school curriculum does have some meaningful "training" on benzos.  In a way I can't blame a doctor not knowing the hazards because they've not been schooled.  Hopefully that changes some day!    Be well.

[Guest [Le...]]

Here is some info about the Benzo Bill in Massachusetts. It describes the confusion doctors have about benzo symptoms in their own patients.

 

  Mad in America

[[ti...]]

The DEA laughably puts benzos in a category safer than opiates. Yet they ARE scheduled per the DEA, meaning that that agency recognizes its dangers. Ask the Dr, if its so safe, why cant you get refills?  Why do you need a separate prescription called in every month?

[[Ma...]]

Hi all. My doctor told me that benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome is NOT a medical term/fact. Also benzodiazepine tolerance is not fact. She said that there are no studies on benzo withdrawal and Professor Ashton was a professor in England which means nothing here in the US. She said the only term I can use is benzodiazepine dependance and that the mental and physical symptoms of withdrawal vary from person to person but are not a recognized disability or sickness at this time. Now I know this is all BS but I'm going to a new doctor and don't want to use these terms if they are just terms from BB or other websites. Wikipedia mentions withdrawal syndrome but that's all I can find. Does anyone know more about this subject. I'm sick and tired of being told this is not a real problem.

Thanks for the reply FizzleWitch. If I don't find a new doctor I will be forced to cold turkey. That's scary

 

I was writing about this very topic to a friend of mine earlier today:-

 

"...There is only very paltry research available on both the long and short-term (horrific) effects and after-effects of these drugs. Not surprising really, when one considers the overall control Big Pharma holds over both manufacturing profits and the dispensing professions in general. That is not to mention their political control which is rampant - especially in the States.

 

The standard ploy, from the industry and its agents, is denial that these medications and withdrawal from them cause any serious problems, or that there is any brain injury caused by use of the medications. ("withdrawal" includes tolerance and inter-dose withdrawal). The usual default inference, instead, is that the hellish conditions people who are in withdrawal go through 'must be' down to some "underlying" condition in each individual patient. The solution usually offered, if not insisted upon, is "more medication" and dosage increases. My heart goes out to the poor f#@k€rs who are embroiled in this scenario - with no one to believe them, with the status quo against them and with no way out..."

 

It is really criminal the way you guys are being treated, Matt. But the day will come when opposition to this catastrophe-in-American-medicine will become unstoppable.

 

Meanwhile, stay away from doctors except to source what you need and get on with your taper on your own terms. I'm not in the States, but that's what I did. 

[[Ma...]]

OK Matty - did your doctor mean that the England people are "different" from other countries' people?  WOW  Off the bat I am glad you are finding someone else!  It seems like your "She" doctor is splitting hairs with the medical jargon.

 

I agree with Fizzle that there haven't been as much study on benzos like other drugs probably because the U.S. pharm companies don't want this sh*t to get out to the public.  We Americans are the biggest users of ALL drugs!!!

 

I would hope someday that the medical school curriculum does have some meaningful "training" on benzos.  In a way I can't blame a doctor not knowing the hazards because they've not been schooled.  Hopefully that changes some day!    Be well.

She meant we don't follow the same regulations and standards here. I'll be forced to cold turkey if I cannot find a doctor.

[[Ma...]]

Here is some info about the Benzo Bill in Massachusetts. It describes the confusion doctors have about benzo symptoms in their own patients.

 

  Mad in America

Thanks LeslieAsh. Good article. Sad but true.

[[bu...]]

 

 

"...There is only very paltry research available on both the long and short-term (horrific) effects and after-effects of these drugs.

 

Actually, there have been thousands and thousands of medical/academic research studies, and thousands and thousands of scholarly article published.

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+benzodiazepines&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM2b-Nx-3RAhXH2SYKHdYDCH4QgQMIGjAA

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,34&as_vis=1&qsp=1&q=long+term+effects+of+benzodiazepines

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,34&as_vis=1&qsp=3&q=adverse+effects+of+benzodiazepines

 

 

[[Ph...]]

Matty, your conversation with your doctor would make a good Seinfeld script.  Lots of punch lines from an idiot doctor.  You know, like Jerry's dentist.  I heard the same nonsense from my first doctor, the one that got me hooked on benzos.  This was back when I thought these doctors knew what they were doing and cared about the welfare of their patients.  What you heard from your doctor was a rehearsed script (many provided by pharm companies) that is designed to deflect doubt and obtain compliance from patients.  These scripts actually exist!  I once saw a pdf of a document on line, provided by a pharm company sales rep to a doctor, that consisted of a chart showing potential patient objections to a drug and the recommended doctor responses, i.e., if the patient says this, then you say that.

 

Keep shopping and don't let them bullshit you.

[[Fi...]]

 

 

"...There is only very paltry research available on both the long and short-term (horrific) effects and after-effects of these drugs.

 

Actually, there have been thousands and thousands of medical/academic research studies, and thousands and thousands of scholarly article published.

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+benzodiazepines&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM2b-Nx-3RAhXH2SYKHdYDCH4QgQMIGjAA

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,34&as_vis=1&qsp=1&q=long+term+effects+of+benzodiazepines

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,34&as_vis=1&qsp=3&q=adverse+effects+of+benzodiazepines

 

If that's the case - and I'm sure it is - then what is keeping the powers-that-be from proscribing these drugs and treating them like the lethal poisons they are?

 

The fact that Matt's doc can calmly fling out the nonsense that "there is no such thing as benzo withdrawal syndrome" certainly 'unearths' a flaw in the system - particularly as these doctor-people have to deal with BWS every day of the week.

 

So, who is not joining the dots, and why - if all these studies show what we know by experience they ought to show?

[[Ma...]]

 

 

"...There is only very paltry research available on both the long and short-term (horrific) effects and after-effects of these drugs.

 

Actually, there have been thousands and thousands of medical/academic research studies, and thousands and thousands of scholarly article published.

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=effects+of+benzodiazepines&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM2b-Nx-3RAhXH2SYKHdYDCH4QgQMIGjAA

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,34&as_vis=1&qsp=1&q=long+term+effects+of+benzodiazepines

 

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,34&as_vis=1&qsp=3&q=adverse+effects+of+benzodiazepines

 

If that's the case - and I'm sure it is - then what is keeping the powers-that-be from proscribing these drugs and treating them like the lethal poisons they are?

 

The fact that Matt's doc can calmly fling out the nonsense that "there is no such thing as benzo withdrawal syndrome" certainly 'unearths' a flaw in the system - particularly as these doctor-people have to deal with BWS every day of the week.

 

So, who is not joining the dots, and why - if all these studies show what we know by experience they ought to show?

If there is soo much info out there about these problems then why don't any doctors know about it. My cardiologist knows about it because he helped a family member deal with their taper but he said this stuff is not taught in medical school. Who cares how many studies they've done on benzos.It hasn't changed the fact that doctors haven't changed their ways. Maybe these studies aren't credible.

[[Fi...]]

 

If there is soo much info out there about these problems then why don't any doctors know about it. My cardiologist knows about it because he helped a family member deal with their taper but he said this stuff is not taught in medical school. Who cares how many studies they've done on benzos.It hasn't changed the fact that doctors haven't changed their ways. Maybe these studies aren't credible.

 

Oh they know about it alright Matt. The thing is they don't "officially" know about it.

 

I guess if you're the Doc who decides to come forward with all your whistle-blowing facts in a way that exposes the scam worldwide, then you probably won't have much of a career left.

 

In a medical realm effectively controlled by Big Pharma, Big Money and the Prescription Pad, "doctors" are reduced to being mere technicians and drug-stash tweakers who do what they are told. That's the reality. Sad but true.

[[An...]]

I live in the US and was told that I was experiencing withdrawal when I first was advised to stop taking Librium cold turkey. BUT he said he should be out of my system and my withdrawals should stop after 30 days. What a joke. I was shaking like a leaf and could barely function, crying constantly, wanting to end my life etc. It was horrible. He gave me antidepressants and said they were not addictive. More hogwash. Anyone with the internet can see they are also addictive. Taking those made me feel like I was on some type of acid trip so I stopped those.

 

Then I go to a pdoc who says I am in withdrawal and gives me a prescription for Librium. I reinstated because I was told my withdrawals would stop if I did...not true. I tried to take them again daily to stabilize. Didn't work. I am still having issues. I decided to taper and am now down to 2x a week. Still having terrible tremors, anxiety, heart palps. Went to a Cardiologist because my heart was going nuts and was told I have constant benign heart palps...was given a beta blocker but it lowers my blood pressure to much. HE said the beta blocker was addictive and I would have withdrawals if I took it to long.

 

No thanks, going through that already so now I am tapering and suffering because the Librium does next to nothing. SO, these doctors can SAY what they want but they really don't understand about benzo's because they are not taught about it much in school. Most doctors have had ONE psych class. I have taken more psych classes.

 

And even if they do know about it, they don't want to take responsibility. I guess. I have no idea why they lie to us. If I were you, I would find a psychiatrist and just go in and tell them you have major anxiety and you need whatever it is you are taking. Then taper on your own terms. Don't talk to them about withdrawal because they don't want to hear that. They just want to write a prescription and send you on your way. Anyway, that is my advice. Good luck. I really hope you don't have to go Cold Turkey.

 

Just as a side note: The family doctor I saw here will not prescribe benzo's because he feels they are the devils poison. However, he will gladly prescribe a million antidepressants- crazy if you ask me.

[[Ca...]]

It is bussiness... They have known of the problems from 1960... The majority of practices are owned as an investment by a third party... post accident i followed my Gp Dr to probably 6 practices in about 4yrs, her and atleast 3other drs, -the non-compliants...

She built her own new practice and they all bar one work there now...

 

As my doses increased she warned me that these valium can be as hard or harder to come off than opiates... it was enough to make me carefull, but it didnt hit home... -she didnt know much more (at that point)...

 

Matty, u need to find a good dr, but they dont have to be benzo experts. They just have to be able to think, listen, understand and trust the patient a bit... oh and have morals...

 

Saw my Gp Dr today, was having some skin biopsies cut out so we had lots of time to talk...

I told her my taper was getting hard and im holding...

-thats fine, ur doing well.

*Im going to DLMT from here...

-whats that???

*Tiny cuts every day, but i have to use alcohol and water to make a solution...

-...oh.. hows that work...

(I explained... Thanks Builder...)

-i cant comment on that, do u trust that website to help if need be... (she has looked at bb previously re my tapering and initial s/x. And also Ashton)

-sounds like a sensible plan (which actually is a comment), and your doses are low enough that im not worried too much... what do u need from me...

*nothing, i still got plenty of valium left...

 

Thats how easy it can be with the right Dr...

-nill stress...

Then we went on to talk about codeine and headaches, GPN and lyrica, etc... -all the while... -cut mop stitch...

 

Does anyone know where that link is to the bb member and cardiologist Drs benzo letter of her own experience with benzo and cancer???

 

Best wishes Matty...

 

 

[[Th...]]

All I can say anymore is your Dr. Is a POS! Even if this was the case have some sense of sympathy. Sorry you had to hear that. Tell her to go in her in her vault of pill samples from Pharm reps and take them for a few weeks and get back to you. I mean 3 weeks is such a short time their should be no medical reason for her to taper 

[[Ca...]]

All I can say anymore is your Dr. Is a POS! Even if this was the case have some sense of sympathy. Sorry you had to hear that. Tell her to go in her in her vault of pill samples from Pharm reps and take them for a few weeks and get back to you. I mean 3 weeks is such a short time their should be no medical reason for her to taper 

 

And just what starting dose would u recomend.... lol

(Dont answer that...)

 

[[Ma...]]

OH LORD don't get me started on these damn "DOCTORS". They are so clueless. Obviously none of them have been On Benzos or know what it feels like to quit.

[[ma...]]

Same shit over here, in Europe . They dont have a clue here to . My doc Said.. Was i wrong? To give you Xanax al these year? I dont know how to taper? So i Said.. I have this manual? And than he Said...  yadayada. Am scared do Death now for docs. And all this antideppressiv? How can DSM grow every year? Take care :

[[Ma...]]

My doctor is awesome actually. He's an addictionologist and tells it like it is. He tells me gabapentin wd can have you hospitalized, that benzos may cause dementia and that he has seen patients playing pretend Nintendo in his office, hallucinating coming off benzos. He teaches a pharmacology course. On top of helping a range of different addicts, he cleans up messes created by psychiatrist's who are nothing but lackey's for pharmaceutical cartels to push all their addictive drugs.

 

If you want help see a psychologist. I do, it helps. The last psychiatrist I saw, I nearly got into a fist fight with because he was rude to me and made nasty remark and I stood up to him. He asked me if I heard voices...after I told him my extensive drug history. I asked him: "you mean like audible voices" "no I do not" and this POS told me: "Ya, you do" ....I told him..where do you get off telling me that...I just completely went off on him. I never had any auditory hallucination with the exception of one time, after taking a bunch of Adderall and not sleeping for two days several years ago. I didn't tell him that though because I was too mad. How dare he. I wanted to fight that POS but he ended the session and threatened to call security.

[[Fi...]]

My doctor is awesome actually. He's an addictionologist and tells it like it is. He tells me gabapentin wd can have you hospitalized, that benzos may cause dementia and that he has seen patients playing pretend Nintendo in his office, hallucinating coming off benzos. He teaches a pharmacology course. On top of helping a range of different addicts, he cleans up messes created by psychiatrist's who are nothing but lackey's for pharmaceutical cartels to push all their addictive drugs.

 

If you want help see a psychologist. I do, it helps. The last psychiatrist I saw, I nearly got into a fist fight with because he was rude to me and made nasty remark and I stood up to him. He asked me if I heard voices...after I told him my extensive drug history. I asked him: "you mean like audible voices" "no I do not" and this POS told me: "Ya, you do" ....I told him..where do you get off telling me that...I just completely went off on him. I never had any auditory hallucination with the exception of one time, after taking a bunch of Adderall and not sleeping for two days several years ago. I didn't tell him that though because I was too mad. How dare he. I wanted to fight that POS but he ended the session and threatened to call security.

 

 

I was wondering what a POS was, but I think I got it - LoL!    :laugh:

[[Ca...]]

Lol, me too Fizzle...

i had to see lots for the accident stuff... nothing too unusual -but some mind games and one medico legal ont that i refused to see again...

But more recent i had to see a public one to get into the rapid detox i did... she was plain evil...!!

-i think u have met her fizzlewitch... as she is a toad...

I was speechless and walked out...

what else can one do...?

[[jo...]]

I agree with beat benzos yes put these idiots on benzos then tell them to just stop like the Doc who told Me that during My last taper two years ago. I had a seizure and ended up in the ER. My current shrink is also useless the one that said My symptoms are all in My imagination . She also claims that 0.25mg of K is a as She put it TEENIE dose.

 

I actually told Her OK You take it and got no response. If .25mg is so teenie as She puts its then I wonder why My current dose of .038 is still kicking Me hard as I continue My micro taper. I envy the people who CAN jump at higher doses etc but Im going to ZERO as I did two years ago. This second time around its so much harder . So bottom line IMO is most Docs are NOT trained in Benzo withdrawal neither are pharmacist . I have also dealt with them denying terms We use here on the forum.

 

We need to stick together and help each other out, I only have the shrink in My corner because I need the prescription for the K so I can continue My taper. Their are some addiction docs out there but far and in between then find one that will take Your insurance , Im 63 dissabled and on medicare.