IS IT TRUE A SLOW TAPER IS MORE LIKELY TO CAUSE PROTRACTED OR ACUTE

[[ho...]]

I just read twice on here a slow taper is more likely to put you in acute and possibly protracted. What?? I thought the opposite, as a slower taper would allow brain to heal as you're tapering to some degree. Can't win! 

[[2t...]]

I have only ever read the opposite and a c/t is more likely to give you worse acute and more chance of protracted.

[[...]]

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

[[me...]]

The only time that would be the case is if someone has not been taking a benzo for very long, for instance 4 months or less. It is very likely in that case, that their body would not have the strong dependence that a long-term user would have. If such a person goes on a very long taper, they could very well become more dependent during that time, and find it much harder to get off, and the stronger dependence would make protracted symptoms more likely. But each person is different and needs to evaluate how quickly they can get off.

 

For long-term users, more than 6 months or so, a slower taper is less likely to cause protracted or acute symptoms. But again there is a lot of individual difference in how quickly one can taper, and how prone to severe/protracted withdrawal symptoms they would be.

[[Bi...]]

I just read twice on here a slow taper is more likely to put you in acute and possibly protracted. What?? I thought the opposite, as a slower taper would allow brain to heal as you're tapering to some degree. Can't win! 

 

You can win.  Taper slow.  The ONLY enemy that can do REAL brain damage is too much glutamate.  Benzo's protect your brain from excess glutamate. Tapering this class of drug is a very strange relationship in the world of addiction!

 

This is the enemy of a faster taper!! Glutamate kills brain cells.

 

SEE REF -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity

 

Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged or killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate -- Excitotoxicity may be involved in spinal cord injury, stroke, traumatic brain injury, hearing loss (through noise overexposure or ototoxicity), and in neurodegenerative diseases of the central nervous system (CNS) such as multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), Parkinson's disease, alcoholism or alcohol withdrawal and especially over-rapid benzodiazepine withdrawal,

[[ho...]]

I have only ever read the opposite and a c/t is more likely to give you worse acute and more chance of protracted.

I read the same too, the slower the taper, the less likely for acute or protracted. That seems to be the point of a slow taper. I'm glad you read the same.

[[ho...]]

I have only ever read the opposite and a c/t is more likely to give you worse acute and more chance of protracted.

how are you tapering your klonopin trusting?

[[ho...]]

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

I was going through group and saw it, maybe on one of the success stories. Also saw it on Facebook group. Lady said did slow taper, and went into acute for nine months. She used only water for her titration off klonopin , maybe that had something to do with it? She was on 20 years but didn't think that mattered.

[[ho...]]

The only time that would be the case is if someone has not been taking a benzo for very long, for instance 4 months or less. It is very likely in that case, that their body would not have the strong dependence that a long-term user would have. If such a person goes on a very long taper, they could very well become more dependent during that time, and find it much harder to get off, and the stronger dependence would make protracted symptoms more likely. But each person is different and needs to evaluate how quickly they can get off.

 

For long-term users, more than 6 months or so, a slower taper is less likely to cause protracted or acute symptoms. But again there is a lot of individual difference in how quickly one can taper, and how prone to severe/protracted withdrawal symptoms they would be.

I agree this could be true meowie.

[[ho...]]

I just read twice on here a slow taper is more likely to put you in acute and possibly protracted. What?? I thought the opposite, as a slower taper would allow brain to heal as you're tapering to some degree. Can't win! 

 

You can win.  Taper slow.  The ONLY enemy that can do REAL brain damage is too much glutamate.  Benzo's protect your brain from excess glutamate. Tapering this class of drug is a very strange relationship in the world of addiction!

 

This is the enemy of a faster taper!! Glutamate kills brain cells.

 

SEE REF -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity

 

Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged or killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate -- Excitotoxicity may be involved in spinal cord injury, stroke, traumatic brain injury, hearing loss (through noise overexposure or ototoxicity), and in neurodegenerative diseases of the central nervous system (CNS) such as multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), Parkinson's disease, alcoholism or alcohol withdrawal and especially over-rapid benzodiazepine withdrawal,

hi bird man,  in Dec 2015 I was up to a high dose of klonopin and drinking coffee by the buckets. On December 12th I had a "brain melt down" where couldn't sleep, jaw tremor, pacing, anxiety, heart hurt, didn't sleep all night. After that night I dropped my dose in half. Literally Dec 11th fine, Dec 12th life changed forever. I did notice before that night doing things like throwing silverware away, some anxiety increasing, couldn't concentrate looking back on it now. But that night changed my life, became agoraphobic within weeks heart went up to 150. (I did drop my dose to 3-4 after melt down night). I spent all last year thinking I was dying of some mysterious illness because no doctor and admitted to hospital twice, could find out what was wrong with me. I found out it was withdrawal in October. I'm concerned I did permanent brain damage because of the amount of k I was taking and the amount of coffee I was drinking.

[[2t...]]

I have only ever read the opposite and a c/t is more likely to give you worse acute and more chance of protracted.

how are you tapering your klonopin trusting?

 

Stated off with a scale and cutting at 10% of original dose (.05mg cut) every 14 to 28 days, this got hard around .2 mg so slowed down cut rate to .0195mg and started to use a compounding pharmacy to make my pills for me, just recently slowed again to just under .01mg cuts.

Hope to cut to .030mg early next week.

This will have taken 9 months with probably 2 or 4 extra weeks until I jump.

I have a blob if yoou want to see my progress, not easy but never up dosed with some good days thrown in.

[[ho...]]

I have only ever read the opposite and a c/t is more likely to give you worse acute and more chance of protracted.

how are you tapering your klonopin trusting?

 

Stated off with a scale and cutting at 10% of original dose (.05mg cut) every 14 to 28 days, this got hard around .2 mg so slowed down cut rate to .0195mg and started to use a compounding pharmacy to make my pills for me, just recently slowed again to just under .01mg cuts.

Hope to cut to .030mg early next week.

This will have taken 9 months with probably 2 or 4 extra weeks until I jump.

I have a blob if yoou want to see my progress, not easy but never up dosed with some good days thrown in.

awesome!! You're so close! Glad you had some good days!!

[[ho...]]

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

abcd I see you did a titration, and put hellos, was it off the klonopin? I'm planning a milk titration for the rest of my klonopin taper

[[...]]

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

I was going through group and saw it, maybe on one of the success stories. Also saw it on Facebook group. Lady said did slow taper, and went into acute for nine months. She used only water for her titration off klonopin , maybe that had something to do with it? She was on 20 years but didn't think that mattered.

 

A success story on BB, are you sure?  Maybe they were speaking of their personal experiences?  It's always good to add links otherwise it's just hearsay.  You know?  But, anyway, you know better than to believe that, I hope. 

 

 

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

abcd I see you did a titration, and put hellos, was it off the klonopin? I'm planning a milk titration for the rest of my klonopin taper

 

Effexor compounded liquid titration many years ago.  Went too fast at the end, got too eager to jump off.  Lesson learned!  My K taper was pretty much uneventful, I tapered slowly and went down to fumes ... a mere five days of "acute" a few weeks after jumping.  That's all.  My problem and why I'm in this whole big mess is due to being in tolerance withdrawal for years without realizing it, also thought I had some crazy mysterious disease ... plus, I was incredibly irregular with my dosing.  A totally different story from yours.  You've done your homework now and you're off and running the correct way!  Good job.  Slow and easy, listen to your body.  Quality of life number one! 

 

Good luck.

 

 

[[lo...]]

I did a moderate pace taper (5 months or so) and the process itself was very easy. end was rougher but doable. worst of acute was short. still recovering, but I function 100%. sleep 8h or so. I  believe you don't want to go too slow, especially when on benzos for moderate time.

you mentioned somebody on benzos on 20 years. of course that matters. every day you are on it matters.

[[Le...]]

I just read twice on here a slow taper is more likely to put you in acute and possibly protracted. What?? I thought the opposite, as a slower taper would allow brain to heal as you're tapering to some degree. Can't win! 

 

You can win.  Taper slow.  The ONLY enemy that can do REAL brain damage is too much glutamate.  Benzo's protect your brain from excess glutamate. Tapering this class of drug is a very strange relationship in the world of addiction!

 

This is the enemy of a faster taper!! Glutamate kills brain cells.

 

SEE REF -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity

 

Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged or killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate -- Excitotoxicity may be involved in spinal cord injury, stroke, traumatic brain injury, hearing loss (through noise overexposure or ototoxicity), and in neurodegenerative diseases of the central nervous system (CNS) such as multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), Parkinson's disease, alcoholism or alcohol withdrawal and especially over-rapid benzodiazepine withdrawal,

hi bird man,  in Dec 2015 I was up to a high dose of klonopin and drinking coffee by the buckets. On December 12th I had a "brain melt down" where couldn't sleep, jaw tremor, pacing, anxiety, heart hurt, didn't sleep all night. After that night I dropped my dose in half. Literally Dec 11th fine, Dec 12th life changed forever. I did notice before that night doing things like throwing silverware away, some anxiety increasing, couldn't concentrate looking back on it now. But that night changed my life, became agoraphobic within weeks heart went up to 150. (I did drop my dose to 3-4 after melt down night). I spent all last year thinking I was dying of some mysterious illness because no doctor and admitted to hospital twice, could find out what was wrong with me. I found out it was withdrawal in October. I'm concerned I did permanent brain damage because of the amount of k I was taking and the amount of coffee I was drinking.

 

Wait are we not supposed to drink coffee during tapering? I only ever have one " Tall" at Starbucks which is essentially a small anywhere else and I drink dark roast which has less caffeine. Is this even bad?

[[ho...]]

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

I was going through group and saw it, maybe on one of the success stories. Also saw it on Facebook group. Lady said did slow taper, and went into acute for nine months. She used only water for her titration off klonopin , maybe that had something to do with it? She was on 20 years but didn't think that mattered.

 

A success story on BB, are you sure?  Maybe they were speaking of their personal experiences?  It's always good to add links otherwise it's just hearsay.  You know?  But, anyway, you know better than to believe that, I hope. 

 

 

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

abcd I see you did a titration, and put hellos, was it off the klonopin? I'm planning a milk titration for the rest of my klonopin taper

 

Effexor compounded liquid titration many years ago.  Went too fast at the end, got too eager to jump off.  Lesson learned!  My K taper was pretty much uneventful, I tapered slowly and went down to fumes ... a mere five days of "acute" a few weeks after jumping.  That's all.  My problem and why I'm in this whole big mess is due to being in tolerance withdrawal for years without realizing it, also thought I had some crazy mysterious disease ... plus, I was incredibly irregular with my dosing.  A totally different story from yours.  You've done your homework now and you're off and running the correct way!  Good job.  Slow and easy, listen to your body.  Quality of life number one! 

 

Good luck.

 

I'm not sure where it was on here but in the Facebook group I could find it and post her picture and her saying that. I wouldn't post it if I hadn't read it. I have read the exact opposite, so that's why I was shocked. At this point, I don't know what to believe. So much conflicting information about this situation. I'm a member of half a dozen Facebook groups as well and constantly hearing conflicting information. It's frustrating but I know it's the nature of this beast.

[[ho...]]

I just read twice on here a slow taper is more likely to put you in acute and possibly protracted. What?? I thought the opposite, as a slower taper would allow brain to heal as you're tapering to some degree. Can't win! 

 

You can win.  Taper slow.  The ONLY enemy that can do REAL brain damage is too much glutamate.  Benzo's protect your brain from excess glutamate. Tapering this class of drug is a very strange relationship in the world of addiction!

 

This is the enemy of a faster taper!! Glutamate kills brain cells.

 

SEE REF -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excitotoxicity

 

Excitotoxicity is the pathological process by which nerve cells are damaged or killed by excessive stimulation by neurotransmitters such as glutamate -- Excitotoxicity may be involved in spinal cord injury, stroke, traumatic brain injury, hearing loss (through noise overexposure or ototoxicity), and in neurodegenerative diseases of the central nervous system (CNS) such as multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), Parkinson's disease, alcoholism or alcohol withdrawal and especially over-rapid benzodiazepine withdrawal,

hi bird man,  in Dec 2015 I was up to a high dose of klonopin and drinking coffee by the buckets. On December 12th I had a "brain melt down" where couldn't sleep, jaw tremor, pacing, anxiety, heart hurt, didn't sleep all night. After that night I dropped my dose in half. Literally Dec 11th fine, Dec 12th life changed forever. I did notice before that night doing things like throwing silverware away, some anxiety increasing, couldn't concentrate looking back on it now. But that night changed my life, became agoraphobic within weeks heart went up to 150. (I did drop my dose to 3-4 after melt down night). I spent all last year thinking I was dying of some mysterious illness because no doctor and admitted to hospital twice, could find out what was wrong with me. I found out it was withdrawal in October. I'm concerned I did permanent brain damage because of the amount of k I was taking and the amount of coffee I was drinking.

 

Wait are we not supposed to drink coffee during tapering? I only ever have one " Tall" at Starbucks which is essentially a small anywhere else and I drink dark roast which has less caffeine. Is this even bad?

I have not drank coffee since December 12 2015. I hear some people can handle a small amount of coffee. If it doesn't bother you it should be fine.

[[ho...]]

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

I was going through group and saw it, maybe on one of the success stories. Also saw it on Facebook group. Lady said did slow taper, and went into acute for nine months. She used only water for her titration off klonopin , maybe that had something to do with it? She was on 20 years but didn't think that mattered.

 

A success story on BB, are you sure?  Maybe they were speaking of their personal experiences?  It's always good to add links otherwise it's just hearsay.  You know?  But, anyway, you know better than to believe that, I hope. 

 

 

Where did you read that?  Can you add the links so it can be read in context.

abcd I see you did a titration, and put hellos, was it off the klonopin? I'm planning a milk titration for the rest of my klonopin taper

 

Effexor compounded liquid titration many years ago.  Went too fast at the end, got too eager to jump off.  Lesson learned!  My K taper was pretty much uneventful, I tapered slowly and went down to fumes ... a mere five days of "acute" a few weeks after jumping.  That's all.  My problem and why I'm in this whole big mess is due to being in tolerance withdrawal for years without realizing it, also thought I had some crazy mysterious disease ... plus, I was incredibly irregular with my dosing.  A totally different story from yours.  You've done your homework now and you're off and running the correct way!  Good job.  Slow and easy, listen to your body.  Quality of life number one! 

 

Good luck.

 

well I'm glad you had an uneventful taper and short acute. Our stories are kind of similar, I was all the place with my dosing, and going up and up as my tolerance level got higher. I thought I was dying for ten months of mysterious illness. I just don't know what happened to me on that night in December. That scares me how one night has changed my entire life.

[[bu...]]

I just read twice on here a slow taper is more likely to put you in acute and possibly protracted. What?? I thought the opposite, as a slower taper would allow brain to heal as you're tapering to some degree. Can't win! 

 

<sigh>...so many myths here on BB.

 

A slow, gentle taper is definitely the best way to AVOID any significant sxs, both during and after your taper.

[[bl...]]

Well, this excitotoxicity is certainly scary!  How do we know if this has happened and what can we do to prevent it, if anything?  I got CT'd from .05 mg of xanax in September and I'm still having some pretty severe symptoms in month 5...mostly head stuff. Floaty, dizzy, muzzy head . Now I'm afraid my nerves got killed !

[[bu...]]

Well, this excitotoxicity is certainly scary! 

  Wow, another scary word.  :

[[ho...]]

I just read twice on here a slow taper is more likely to put you in acute and possibly protracted. What?? I thought the opposite, as a slower taper would allow brain to heal as you're tapering to some degree. Can't win! 

 

<sigh>...so many myths here on BB.

 

A slow, gentle taper is definitely the best way to AVOID any significant sxs, both during and after your taper.

I agree.

[[ho...]]

Well, this excitotoxicity is certainly scary!  How do we know if this has happened and what can we do to prevent it, if anything?  I got CT'd from .05 mg of xanax in September and I'm still having some pretty severe symptoms in month 5...mostly head stuff. Floaty, dizzy, muzzy head . Now I'm afraid my nerves got killed !

I looked it up a little and it looks like it's temporary in benzo withdrawal patients. But I'm not sure

[[ho...]]

I did a moderate pace taper (5 months or so) and the process itself was very easy. end was rougher but doable. worst of acute was short. still recovering, but I function 100%. sleep 8h or so. I  believe you don't want to go too slow, especially when on benzos for moderate time.

you mentioned somebody on benzos on 20 years. of course that matters. every day you are on it matters.

I'm glad your acute was short and you're functioning! Happy you're off this poison!