Hold or Reinstate last "safe" dose? And how to up my dose rate?

[[...]]

I am currently doing a 6%/month taper. I am completely symptom free and I plan on staying that way . However, I do want to go as fast as I can (all the while staying at 10% or less per month) AND stay symptom free. I am thinking that if I up to 10% at these beginning stages it will be easier as I get down to the smaller amounts and cuts.

(I realized in doing calculations that if I even up to 6% it'll take me two years to get to like --I don't have the paper in front of me now-- 0.25mg and the cuts will be so small it'll be tough to get lower at all --again, not sure the exact number but getting to a jump off point would be real hard with cuts that aren't really doable, hence the reason why I want to make bigger cuts at the start with the ability to go lower later if needed)

 

My question is, should I up it to 8% then 10% or just go right into 10% and then see how I feel? Then if I start to feel off do I reinstate the last safe dose, the last dose I felt good? Or do I hold until it passes and then go down to like say 8% or something?

 

[[lo...]]

More caution is always better. Reinstatement is a crap shoot, and can screw up all of the tapering you've previously done, throw you into a very unstable state, and then make all cuts exponentially harder. Please, take your time. So, try the 8% first.

 

Any reason you want to rush this? Is your doc forcing you off or something? PERSONALLY, I would recommend, (from taking it too fast and fucking myself over), don't rush through this. It will be over when it's over, and if you rush it you'll have worse symptoms than you could have had tapering slower and having it be over at the same time.

 

That said if it's your first taper you can probably handle 10% per month just fine. but it could and probably will eventually catch up with you; don't feel discouraged about holding longer / reducing the monthly %.

[[bu...]]

I would go in steps.  And don't forget, as your dose get smaller, your cut %age is already getting bigger.

[[...]]

I would go in steps.  And don't forget, as your dose get smaller, your cut %age is already getting bigger.

 

Totally, that's why I thought it might be a better idea to go higher now so that I CAN do 6%. Know what I mean? Eek! So you are saying try 8% first then if I am still good, go to 10%? OK!

[[...]]

More caution is always better. Reinstatement is a crap shoot, and can screw up all of the tapering you've previously done, throw you into a very unstable state, and then make all cuts exponentially harder. Please, take your time. So, try the 8% first.

 

Any reason you want to rush this? Is your doc forcing you off or something? PERSONALLY, I would recommend, (from taking it too fast and fucking myself over), don't rush through this. It will be over when it's over, and if you rush it you'll have worse symptoms than you could have had tapering slower and having it be over at the same time.

 

That said if it's your first taper you can probably handle 10% per month just fine. but it could and probably will eventually catch up with you; don't feel discouraged about holding longer / reducing the monthly %.

 

Good point. I don't want to fuck myself over, ha. I just wanted to start off faster while I can because as it gets down to say 0.5 and less then I will need to make smaller percentages. So if I can do 10%, that would be great to speed up the process now while I can. Later it will be hard.

[[...]]

Oh wait, so I'll try 9% first (since 6-8% is pretty much the same damn thing ml wise) then in 14 days try 10% if all good. Does that sound good?

 

Also, if I DO have effects that I find troublesome, do I return to the last dose that was good? Not back to 1mg, but say whatever dose that I had tapered to that I felt well at? Or hold it and then go down in steps (or a slope rather ) again?

[[Ca...]]

Hey Mdh.. planning is good, but dont stress over it too much...

It can all change as u go and different sx come n go, and different healing rates in mind and body apply...

As u listen to your body, i think with a slow gentle taper u will get plenty of warning as to size n speed.. just no need to b like me and have to touch the fire to be sure its hot...

U will do great, dont rush the last bit..

[[...]]

Hey Mdh.. planning is good, but dont stress over it too much...

It can all change as u go and different sx come n go, and different healing rates in mind and body apply...

As u listen to your body, i think with a slow gentle taper u will get plenty of warning as to size n speed.. just no need to b like me and have to touch the fire to be sure its hot...

U will do great, dont rush the last bit..

 

Thanks so much, Cantfly! Very good advice! I decided to take it and am now trying 8% for two weeks, see how I feel, then I'll try the 10% if it's flawless Wish me luck!

[[...]]

What is the general rule for when you MIGHT feel symptoms after a taper? Like, when is it safe to go faster, basically? If I have no symtoms after 3 days am I safe to move to 10%? one week? Two weeks? a month? Just curious! Not sure what the rule is in how long it generally takes for the body to catch up and be like "Wait, what are you doing!!" if it does at all

[[be...]]

I think it's different for everyone but if you try cutting a bit more I'd stay on that dose for at least 10'days. If it doesn't work out then I'd resume my original plan. I wouldn't updose just go back to 6 percent. Thing is, if you're doing very well now why rock the boat. I take bigger cuts but my boat doesn't feel rocked but that's been my routine throughout so I'm not going to change anything right now. I might end up taking actually smaller cuts in time if I need to. It's not a race. But I guess if you want to try it and you feel confident I don't think there's harm in trying. But if it's not comfortable you'll know quick enough. B

[[...]]

I think it's different for everyone but if you try cutting a bit more I'd stay on that dose for at least 10'days. If it doesn't work out then I'd resume my original plan. I wouldn't updose just go back to 6 percent. Thing is, if you're doing very well now why rock the boat. I take bigger cuts but my boat doesn't feel rocked but that's been my routine throughout so I'm not going to change anything right now. I might end up taking actually smaller cuts in time if I need to. It's not a race. But I guess if you want to try it and you feel confident I don't think there's harm in trying. But if it's not comfortable you'll know quick enough. B

 

Totally. My boat may not be rocked at all at 10% so why not try! If I can go faster AND be totally smooth sailing, win! If not, I have no issues with 6% or my now second day of 8% We'll see! I'll do 10 days at this rate and if I am COMPLETELY fine on it, I'll try 10%. No more than 10 though!

[[Ca...]]

Mdh, first, -i wish u more than luck, a curious mind will have every success!!!

 

As for taper speed, thats the big question, but its also where the "everyone is so different" is probably at its most truest...!

I guess, its easier to feel the pain than the good...

Looking back, if playing it real safe i would keep a full 2wk GOOD cut as a buffer, to decide on any changes, so 14 to 28 days (no holds because they were GOOD weeks)...

But as i get used to things, i seem to predict the next two weeks by day 5 to 10(ish) of the current 14days.

It doesnt show in my sig (yet) but i kinda bounced between 2.5 and 5V -which was like a hold after it got bad... it helped a lot... i would rather hold for no good reason, than leave it too late...

But i am feeling better as i get lower overall (the last two cuts were a bit nasti but shorter bad sx time) -for others things get worse, which would make it all so different...

 

I find i get about 3days of good before each cut, -i just guessed 14days at the start, and it works good for me so far...

I will change, hold, whatever, as i go, -if my body isnt happy... my aim from here is to keep my cuts inline with my healing for a oh so gentle step off...

-no repeating my opiate mistakes and ending up protracted or post-accute... Im sure i will be dealing with that long after im off the valium...

Sorry, lots of writing for a not very specific answer...

But i know u will do fine as u already know the rules...

 

Hope that didnt bore u to bits...

 

[[Ca...]]

Lol, barb always beats me...

Its my damn fone, -not my eyes...

Guess i best try counting damn sheep again... 4am...

Cheers guys...

[[...]]

Mdh, first, -i wish u more than luck, a curious mind will have every success!!!

 

As for taper speed, thats the big question, but its also where the "everyone is so different" is probably at its most truest...!

I guess, its easier to feel the pain than the good...

Looking back, if playing it real safe i would keep a full 2wk GOOD cut as a buffer, to decide on any changes, so 14 to 28 days (no holds because they were GOOD weeks)...

But as i get used to things, i seem to predict the next two weeks by day 5 to 10(ish) of the current 14days.

It doesnt show in my sig (yet) but i kinda bounced between 2.5 and 5V -which was like a hold after it got bad... it helped a lot... i would rather hold for no good reason, than leave it too late...

But i am feeling better as i get lower overall (the last two cuts were a bit nasti but shorter bad sx time) -for others things get worse, which would make it all so different...

 

I find i get about 3days of good before each cut, -i just guessed 14days at the start, and it works good for me so far...

I will change, hold, whatever, as i go, -if my body isnt happy... my aim from here is to keep my cuts inline with my healing for a oh so gentle step off...

-no repeating my opiate mistakes and ending up protracted or post-accute... Im sure i will be dealing with that long after im off the valium...

Sorry, lots of writing for a not very specific answer...

But i know u will do fine as u already know the rules...

 

Hope that didnt bore u to bits...

 

Haha, you didn't bore me at all! Definitely get you. I want to cut with what my body can do with GOOD days, aka, ZERO or hardly recognizable symptoms which so far I have had (granted I just started, but it's a decrease nonetheless )

So what do you mean by you get 3 days of good before each cut?

I am trying to remember the first time I tried to taper. I didn't know anything about micro tapering or liquid titration. I thought you simply had to cut the pills. I had cut a 1mg tab in half, and again, and again... I think I was taking about 0.875mg a day. That's 12.5% cut in ONE DAY! Eek! Needless to say, I was a mess. I noticed symptoms right away when I did that. Eye pain, feeling like a panic attack was around the corner. It was at about 3 days in that I had obsessing thoughts and by a week MAJOR depression along with depersonalization and derealization. Holy crap, never again.

So now I'm like, then, does it take a week to feel any symptoms if they plan on rearing their ugly head? But this is SO slow at 0.0026mg a day instead of 0.125mg in one shot. It would take me 50 days about to get to that amount at my current rate. SO happy with that!

Also, don't assume you will get protracted or post-acute!!! Remember my other post? Stay positive and tell yourself over and over you will be flying free and feeling AMAZING! The mind has way more power than we can even fathom

[[Ca...]]

Hey,

Because i still pill split for now, its a cut and 14 day hold. So the 3 good days is day 12-14.. -but i need to hold longer this time, and then smaller cuts now.. -then i plan to micro taper from 1V...

 

-if your going to micro taper, then it doesnt matter anyway, as the idea is to cut slightly each day...

Others are in a better position to give you advice on micro tapering, and Clonazopam cut sizes and speed... -there is a dedicated forum..

the main point is listen to your body, and dont let things catch up on u too much, there may be rough patches, but they dont have to be hell... if u get it mostly right, maybe not even rough patches...!!

 

My protracted mess is from another medicine i finished with a C/T 6 months ago...(if only i knew)...

-the valium i intend to get right, now i know(or have a better idea) what sx is from which drug...

Thanks for the support...

 

[[Ka...]]

What is the general rule for when you MIGHT feel symptoms after a taper? Like, when is it safe to go faster, basically? If I have no symtoms after 3 days am I safe to move to 10%? one week? Two weeks? a month? Just curious! Not sure what the rule is in how long it generally takes for the body to catch up and be like "Wait, what are you doing!!" if it does at all

 

I can always feel symptoms of a cut by day 2.  Most people seem to get off of these drugs fairly easily which is one reason doctors don't understand most of us here.  Maybe you are one of the lucky ones?  good luck.

[[NJ...]]

My two cents would be smaller cuts--you've been on the drug a long time, 10 percent sounds very aggressive even at the beginning. You maybe one of the lucky ones where you can go faster but I have the sense that if you found this forum that is not the case. I have cut slow and have been mostly symptom free (struggling with worrisome anxiety right now at about .45 of K, but I have had the flu, bronchitis, been on steroids, antibiotics, still on all this inhaled meds that I think have tripped me up). It took me from May 2016 to now to reduce from 1 mg of k to the .45.

 

Of course, you can do symptom based taper but I think it is easier to do smaller cuts and then never updose then be too aggressive and have to go back to a previous dose.

 

 

[[...]]

Thanks guys! Yes, I am micro tapering via liquid titration so when I say 10% cut, I mean 10% a month. So that's what, 0.33% a day? 0.0033mg a day. I feel it's doable and am STOKED about that, but I will wait and see how this 8% feels. I am on day 4 of it and I feel absolutely nothing out of the ordinary. In fact I feel happy and excited cause I am doing a good thing for my body Good god I hope it stays like this! Haha. I will be careful! I so appreciate all of your support!!

[[...]]

Hey,

Because i still pill split for now, its a cut and 14 day hold. So the 3 good days is day 12-14.. -but i need to hold longer this time, and then smaller cuts now.. -then i plan to micro taper from 1V...

 

-if your going to micro taper, then it doesnt matter anyway, as the idea is to cut slightly each day...

Others are in a better position to give you advice on micro tapering, and Clonazopam cut sizes and speed... -there is a dedicated forum..

the main point is listen to your body, and dont let things catch up on u too much, there may be rough patches, but they dont have to be hell... if u get it mostly right, maybe not even rough patches...!!

 

My protracted mess is from another medicine i finished with a C/T 6 months ago...(if only i knew)...

-the valium i intend to get right, now i know(or have a better idea) what sx is from which drug...

Thanks for the support...

 

Ah, that makes sense, cantfly. Yes, I was dry cutting 3 years ago and holy crap, I give you major respect!!! I couldn't do it!!! I went from 1mg to 0.875 (roughly) and cried taking the full 1mg again. I just couldn't handle it. And oh no protracted! You can do this! SO great to find this forum to help us hopefully not get anything protracted from the meds so you have that on your side with the med your on now! *hugs*

[[bb...]]

I feel my cut by day 2. Days 2 and 3 have pretty high anxiety and then it eases off slightly from there as the days go by. Right now I am doing 8% cut and hold every 11 days but I'm thinking I may reduce the % rate.

[[Pl...]]

Hey,

Because i still pill split for now, its a cut and 14 day hold. So the 3 good days is day 12-14.. -but i need to hold longer this time, and then smaller cuts now.. -then i plan to micro taper from 1V...

 

-if your going to micro taper, then it doesnt matter anyway, as the idea is to cut slightly each day...

Others are in a better position to give you advice on micro tapering, and Clonazopam cut sizes and speed... -there is a dedicated forum..

the main point is listen to your body, and dont let things catch up on u too much, there may be rough patches, but they dont have to be hell... if u get it mostly right, maybe not even rough patches...!!

 

My protracted mess is from another medicine i finished with a C/T 6 months ago...(if only i knew)...

-the valium i intend to get right, now i know(or have a better idea) what sx is from which drug...

Thanks for the support...

 

Ah, that makes sense, cantfly. Yes, I was dry cutting 3 years ago and holy crap, I give you major respect!!! I couldn't do it!!! I went from 1mg to 0.875 (roughly) and cried taking the full 1mg again. I just couldn't handle it. And oh no protracted! You can do this! SO great to find this forum to help us hopefully not get anything protracted from the meds so you have that on your side with the med your on now! *hugs*

 

Can I ask how big the cuts were percentage wise in what time frame when you did  the try cutting? Was it a micro dry taper?  Were you using a scale?

 

I forgot to look at your signature but can you tell me what kind of liquid your using?

I used milk but the liquid didnt work for me...

 

Sorry for all the questions mdh... Just trying to troubleshoot....

[[...]]

 

Can I ask how big the cuts were percentage wise in what time frame when you did  the try cutting? Was it a micro dry taper?  Were you using a scale?

 

I forgot to look at your signature but can you tell me what kind of liquid your using?

I used milk but the liquid didnt work for me...

 

Sorry for all the questions mdh... Just trying to troubleshoot....

 

No need to apologize! I am happy to help! When I first tried to taper I didn't know anything about micro tapering. I just knew what my doctors said (cut from 1mg to 0.75) and I said I wanted to go slower and they said "Sure! Cut the pill as much as you can. Go at your own rate!" They mean well, and do want to see us succeed ( the good docs) butthey just don't know what truly works. Or they don't trust us with all this mad chemist stuff

 

When I dry cut, it would have been a 12.5% cut. I went from 1mg to about 0.876mg (and this is just guessing as it would not have been accurate. I just split the pill in half  and half again, and again, until I couldn't break it anymore. I felt like crap on day one but by day 3 I was horrible and day 5 I was sobbing and taking the 1mg again.

 

I am now using an ethanol/water titration. I like it because it makes a solution and not a suspension. So all of the med is completely dissolved evenly throughout (though I still shake it for good measure). After the help of friendly buddies, it's not only easy but it's oddly fun. Haha 0.26% vs 12.5% in a day is CRAZY better. No effects at all. It's like my brain has a chance to get with the program. Again, it's early on for me. Only been a month and a week, but I would TOTALLY have felt something by now. And what would the difference be between 1mg to 0.9974 mg and say, .25mg and 0.2493mg? Same math, same taper rate, all good (I have to keep telling myself that so I don't freak myself out saying "holy crap! I'm on so much less! I must feel something!" Nope!

 

I'm just over the moon to have found something I can do! I thought I was stuck being on benzos for life. Totally believed there was no way off without admitting yourself for years to a hospital!

[[Pl...]]

 

Can I ask how big the cuts were percentage wise in what time frame when you did  the try cutting? Was it a micro dry taper?  Were you using a scale?

 

I forgot to look at your signature but can you tell me what kind of liquid your using?

I used milk but the liquid didnt work for me...

 

Sorry for all the questions mdh... Just trying to troubleshoot....

 

No need to apologize! I am happy to help! When I first tried to taper I didn't know anything about micro tapering. I just knew what my doctors said (cut from 1mg to 0.75) and I said I wanted to go slower and they said "Sure! Cut the pill as much as you can. Go at your own rate!" They mean well, and do want to see us succeed ( the good docs) butthey just don't know what truly works. Or they don't trust us with all this mad chemist stuff

 

When I dry cut, it would have been a 12.5% cut. I went from 1mg to about 0.876mg (and this is just guessing as it would not have been accurate. I just split the pill in half  and half again, and again, until I couldn't break it anymore. I felt like crap on day one but by day 3 I was horrible and day 5 I was sobbing and taking the 1mg again.

 

I am now using an ethanol/water titration. I like it because it makes a solution and not a suspension. So all of the med is completely dissolved evenly throughout (though I still shake it for good measure). After the help of friendly buddies, it's not only easy but it's oddly fun. Haha 0.26% vs 12.5% in a day is CRAZY better. No effects at all. It's like my brain has a chance to get with the program. Again, it's early on for me. Only been a month and a week, but I would TOTALLY have felt something by now. And what would the difference be between 1mg to 0.9974 mg and say, .25mg and 0.2493mg? Same math, same taper rate, all good (I have to keep telling myself that so I don't freak myself out saying "holy crap! I'm on so much less! I must feel something!" Nope!

 

I'm just over the moon to have found something I can do! I thought I was stuck being on benzos for life. Totally believed there was no way off without admitting yourself for years to a hospital!

 

Oh wow....so you use alcohol and water? Liquid didnt work for me but I wonder if it was just the milk ; I don't think so. ... And alcohol would be out of the question....

 

I am a kindled case and can't get my severe sxs under control and don't know how to get off this k....

 

Thank you so much...

[[bl...]]

To original poster, if cutting by 6% monthly was producing few symptoms why would you change that and potentially suffer worse withdrawals. It's not a race surely getting off slowly and functioning is better that going too fast and ending up updosing it makes no sense!

[[Pl...]]

 

Can I ask how big the cuts were percentage wise in what time frame when you did  the try cutting? Was it a micro dry taper?  Were you using a scale?

 

I forgot to look at your signature but can you tell me what kind of liquid your using?

I used milk but the liquid didnt work for me...

 

Sorry for all the questions mdh... Just trying to troubleshoot....

 

No need to apologize! I am happy to help! When I first tried to taper I didn't know anything about micro tapering. I just knew what my doctors said (cut from 1mg to 0.75) and I said I wanted to go slower and they said "Sure! Cut the pill as much as you can. Go at your own rate!" They mean well, and do want to see us succeed ( the good docs) butthey just don't know what truly works. Or they don't trust us with all this mad chemist stuff

 

When I dry cut, it would have been a 12.5% cut. I went from 1mg to about 0.876mg (and this is just guessing as it would not have been accurate. I just split the pill in half  and half again, and again, until I couldn't break it anymore. I felt like crap on day one but by day 3 I was horrible and day 5 I was sobbing and taking the 1mg again.

 

I am now using an ethanol/water titration. I like it because it makes a solution and not a suspension. So all of the med is completely dissolved evenly throughout (though I still shake it for good measure). After the help of friendly buddies, it's not only easy but it's oddly fun. Haha 0.26% vs 12.5% in a day is CRAZY better. No effects at all. It's like my brain has a chance to get with the program. Again, it's early on for me. Only been a month and a week, but I would TOTALLY have felt something by now. And what would the difference be between 1mg to 0.9974 mg and say, .25mg and 0.2493mg? Same math, same taper rate, all good (I have to keep telling myself that so I don't freak myself out saying "holy crap! I'm on so much less! I must feel something!" Nope!

 

I'm just over the moon to have found something I can do! I thought I was stuck being on benzos for life. Totally believed there was no way off without admitting yourself for years to a hospital!

Thank you so much for explaining!

You can go really slow on a dry micro taper too using a gram scale which is what I'm trying to do.... I've seen people do it.... I hope it works for me... Please let this work...

 

Anyway I'm glad it is working for you... Don't fix something if its not broken right?

All the best!!!!