Restoril-Temazepam Tapering

[[Be...]]

Just saw a Neurologist for recent memory related/hallucinating issues after being in a hospital about 1.5 months ago. Thought it was Alzheimer's onset, dementia, stroke, but Neurologist looked over CT Scan and said no to all of these after some additional memory tests. Mentioned Delirium which comes on suddenly. Also have been taking Restoril/Temazepam for sleep (now at 7.5MG) for about 5 years and want to get off it. Tried to empty 1/2 of capsules to taper and then skip a day but primary care Dr said you can't do that and put me back to 7.5MG every night till I see the Neurologist. After waiting a whole week the Neurologist said he could not help me with a tapering technique and said to talk with Primary care, so looking for a technique supported here. In-patient rehab centers say they have 5-7 day programs but afraid to go to some here as they have bad reviews of DRs/personnel giving you other mind harming drugs/injections without you knowing it. 

[[me...]]

Welcome to the forum!  We're glad to have you as a new member.  I'm sorry you've gone through all this.  Slow tapering is really the only safe way to get off benzos for long-term users.  "Detox" centers almost always cold turkey benzo users, and cold turkey can result in severe, long lasting symptoms.  I know, I went through a so-called hospital detox in 2009, it lead to dreadful symptoms and eventual reinstatement in my case.

 

You'll find plenty of information and support here.  Our members have gone through all aspects of withdrawal, and you're likely to see  people who understand what you're going through and can tell you what has worked for them.  For those who are currently tapering, we suggest reducing no faster than 5-10% every 10-14 days, and some taper even slower than that.  One exception: very short-term users of a few weeks or less may be able to taper faster than that.  Having some withdrawal symptoms is normal, especially near the end of a taper and for a month or so after discontinuing the medication.  The most common symptoms are anxiety and insomnia, but these are temporary and will go away in time.

 

Here are a few links you may find useful:

 

Withdrawal Support Board

 

The Ashton Manual is an authoritative source on what to expect in withdrawal and recovery.  Dr. Ashton is an expert in the field.  She describes and explains withdrawal symptoms in Chapter III, and there is also a section with withdrawal/taper schedules.

 

Please take the time to Create a Signature.  This will allow others to see where you are in the process so they can better support you.

 

Again, welcome!

 

 

 

[[Be...]]

Thank you so much for the additional information.

My Dr and the Neurologist don't seem to want to handle this themselves and may recommend a Psychiatrist.

I don't want to really fool around with a tapering method until I discuss with them as I also have Heart Failure and other medical issues and am in my late 80s.

 

My children are trying to help me as well through this and looked at the Ashton Schedule which substitutes Valium for the Temazepam (Schedule 9). That one shows for people who are on a 30mg starting dose. What if you are only at the 7.5mg dosage level? Can you just start from there? i.e. start at Stage 2 (Temazepam 7.5mg and Valium 12mg) and continue to stage 18 (1mg of valium)? Looking at changing stages every week.

 

Thank you.

[[me...]]

Thank you so much for the additional information. t

I don't want to really fool around with a tapering method until I discuss with them as I also have Heart Failure and other medical issues and am in my late 80s.

 

My children are trying to help me as well through this and looked at the Ashton Schedule which substitutes Valium for the Temazepam (Schedule 9). That one shows for people who are on a 30mg starting dose. What if you are only at the 7.5mg dosage level? Can you just start from there? i.e. start at Stage 2 (Temazepam 7.5mg and Valium 12mg) and continue to stage 18 (1mg of valium)? Looking at changing stages every week.

 

Thank you.

 

I think the most important thing is to taper slowly, and many here taper even more slowly than Ashton recommends.  The best place to ask specific taper related questions is on the General Taper Plans, board, here:

 

General Taper Plans   

 

[[Be...]]

My children spent hours trying to find a Dr who would handle the tapering. Tried addiction specialists (would not treat the elderly) and finally found that a Gerontologist does work with the elderly on tapering off of medications, even benzos. Have to wait 9 days though for the appointment, meanwhile hope being on 7.5MG does not make things worse.

[[Be...]]

As my children have stated that I seem to be having memory fog which I interpret as loss of memory, I was wondering if taking natural supplements such as Sage, Rosemary or Ashwaghanda that have memory beneficial components would help. I was on the Ashwaghanda but the DRs took me off of it as well as other supplements. I am mindful of drug interactions but sometimes I wonder if DRs tend to shun all supplements for their own sake.

[[Ma...]]

I took temazapam for over 20 yrs.  Mostly between 7.5 and 15mg. I ran into dependency this spring when I upped my dose to 30mg per night.  I didn't know that the symptoms of no sleep, anxiety were tolerance.  I always took comfort in knowing temazapam is one of the lowest potency benzos. My problem was that at 30mg I was hooked and had to cross over to valium (which is going to double the time of the taper ) Valium has issues. My system will only allow small tiny reductions. If i had realized this earlier ,I could have titrated down directly and be done in less than a year. I do sleep better with the temazapam out of my body.

 

At 7.5 mg you have an excellent chance of tapering direct via water titration. MEOWIE IS A BUDDIE THAT HAS DONE THIS.  IF your dr. Recommends crossing to valium, the ratio is 2 to 1. Meaning you take half the amount of valium of temazapam dosage. So you would take a little less than 4mg valium. This cannot be done directly. You have to slowly cross over. (See my signature) It took me a month.I was lucky that my final ratio was less than 2 to 1.

 

At such a low dose, you have an excellent chance of full recovery which ever route you take.

[[Be...]]

Thanks Magnolis for that info on tapering, appreciate it.

 

I have started a direct taper from Temazepam as my Dr. thinks Valium as a substitution method, is too strong for someone of my age and size (only about 100 lbs). I have looked to taper a little each day starting from about 5mg over about a 2 week period. Is that doable? Dr. seems to think so.

 

One thing my children notice is that I have become somewhat catatonic (quiet, silent, inactive) and I've read that Temazepam withdrawal can have that effect. In fact some medical treatments use Benzos to correct catatonia; not something I want to end up having to use as I'm trying to get off that.

 

Has anyone else heard of that or encountered Catatonia in their withdrawal efforts and if so how to address it?

[[Ma...]]

You are taking the lowest dose of one of the lowest potency benzos.  You have about the best chance of anyone to direct taper with success.

At 7.5 ,I could take temazepam sporadically, not every day, with no dependency issues.  It is possible that your catalonia is not physically related to this drug.  Temazapam is 40 times less potent than zanax and kolonopin . 20 times less potent than ativan. 1/2 the potency of valium.  I could take 15 mg with no dependency. Was it good for my health? No.  But my point is that you have such a great chance of direct tapering successfully with minimal problems.  Go as slowly as possible.  Because it's in capsule form and you are dealing with powder, it's tricky to get exact reduction amounts. You could eyeball it. 

That is why suspending the powder in water and doing a daily liquid titration is the most accurate way.  At your low dose, I think you will be pleasantly surprised either way. Good luck!  You are one of the lucky ones!! Let that fear go!!!

[[Be...]]

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

My son measured out the capsules. He slit a piece of foam as a holding base for the bottom half of the capsule (the side that holds the powder) and measured out the remaining days of capsule quantities as: 1/2 capsule (2 days), 1/3 (2 days), 1/4 (2 days), 1/6 (1 day), 1/8 (1 day), 1/10 (1 day). I will be closely monitored by my kids afterwards each day by having my temp taken to see if there are signs of fever, sweating for any pre-cursor to a seizure.

[[Ma...]]

That is a fast taper.

 

Benzo buddies recommends a reduction of  between 5 and 10% every 2 weeks to a month. 

 

Because I was too addicted to temazapam at 30 mg, I had to cross over to 11 mg valium. By body does not like valium, so I can only reduce about 7% per month.

 

I spent 1 month crossing over from temazapam to valium totaling 11 mg or (22 mg temazapam), held of 10 days.

 

Began to taper at 1 (=2mg temaz) mg every 33 days and was doing great. So great, I upped the decline rate and got terribly sick.

 

So I had to hold for two weeks to recover. then restarted the taper even lower. Monday I will be down to 8mg. Thats a reduction of 3 mg which equals 6 mg temazapam in 3.5 months. Shocking to me, but when I got that sick, I realized I couldn't rush this.

 

So your plan is ultra fast... Go slower.

 

[[Be...]]

You are so right about the pace.

 

As soon as I dropped down from ½ a capsule (3.75 mg) to 1/3 a capsule (2.5 mg), I became catatonic which scared my kids. I was in the ER practically motionless with my mouth open and just staring straight ahead. They put me back to ½ a capsule and the next day I was responsive again. The hospital would not administer the ½ capsule, only my kids did. I’m told that my moods seem to switch daily between quiet and low responsive, to scared somewhat agitated (almost cyclical).  They did CT scans, EEGs, ultrasounds of my carotid arteries – all normal results.

What’s wrong with these DRs, even specialists like neurologists and psychiatrists? You’d think any mind affecting drug they would have such basic information on. Not one Dr or specialist that I’ve seen knows about slow tapering schedules. They all say “Oh, 3 or 4 more pills over a week and you’re fine.” Baloney. My feeling is that if you are a Dr who prescribes such medications that are sensitive to withdraw from that requires a regimen, you should be required to know how to taper from them.

 

Anyway we finally got the Gerontologist to agree with a slow tapering; at least 2 weeks at a time then a very gradual taper.

 

How do you feel about using empty clear capsules for better measuring of the powder? It’s possible but not easy to see the level through the colored capsules that the drug comes in but I want a more precise way to see the amounts easily. Any recommended brands or sellers? Would like to find some that have small tick marks on them that would also help. Don’t know if they make those.

 

[[Ma...]]

Very few Drs.  understand or believe in slow tapering, because they have never experienced the drug themselves. If they had gone through withdrawal, they would be quick to recommend a slow taper.l The only source that has helped me through this process in here.... Benzo Buddies.

 

The most precise and gentle way to withdraw is through water titration. I am doing this now.

 

As I said in the last post, I was so sick, I had to cross over to valium from temazapam through a month period. I did this by dropping the capsule in water, shaking and withdrawing designated Ml with a liquid syringe. It sounds complicated but once you have instructions, its not. It really is the only way to go.

 

Meowie (member) knows the exact details. My crossover was different from a titration, so I cannot help with the details.

 

Do you live alone? Can your sons help you with this on a daily basis? As I said before , You are on the lowest dose of the one of the lowest potency benzos, so once you get on a program, this will be doable without too much discomfort.

 

Please consider this water titration .

[[Ma...]]

on the top of the page is : Home, Help  Helpdesk, profile My messages,

Members

 

Click members

 

Then Search for members

 

put in Meowie

 

Send her a private message (pm)

 

She will help I am sure.

[[Bu...]]

Hello Benrest,

 

You are very strong and courageous to take this on at 80 years old. You are also doing the right thing. Benzos cause memory issues even for the young and healthy, getting off of these now will do you well.

 

I have a few questions to maybe help some of us zero in on a good plan for you;

 

1) What time of day are you having the most cognitive issues? Do they seem to happen while under the effects of the Temazepam or after it wears off, day or night?

 

2) Do you notice any symptoms later in the day many hours after your night-time dose?

 

The reason I ask is because of the relatively short half life of Temazepam, 8-22 hours. If you are taking this only at night it is very likely that you are experiencing inter-dose withdrawal in the middle of the day. I had these symptoms at 50 years old, they include; agitation, sleepiness, chest pain, de-realization, paranoia, anxiety and memory loss.

 

Having said that I think that you may be well served by crossing over to Valium for the following reasons:

 

1) The much longer half life will completely eliminate inter-dose issues and will also smooth things over while tapering by staying in your system longer.

 

2) You will probably have better and longer sleep than from the Temazepam, I did.

 

3) Valium is often prescribed for and is good for treating seizures.

 

4) As the Valium builds up in your system you can do a larger quick taper after a few days, then settle in to a slow and steady taper over a few months.

 

5) The crossover equivalency of 7.5mg Temazepam would be 3.75mg of Valium.

 

6) The pill sizes will be easier to deal with when tapering, especially with a liquid daily micro taper.

 

 

I think that we can address some of your other questions after you decide how and when you will taper. Specifically, what things you can take to help regain your memory. I would avoid Ashwaghanda as it messes with GABA receptors and may thwart your healing. But there are a few things that can help once the taper is complete.

 

There are a few good things that can help you with sleep should the original or even rebound insomnia become a problem. Again we can discuss those later if needed.

 

I agree with what others have stated that the taper you are contemplating "(1/2 capsule (2 days), 1/3 (2 days), 1/4 (2 days), 1/6 (1 day), 1/8 (1 day), 1/10 (1 day)" is way too fast. This rapid taper could bring on unnecessary and potentially serious withdrawal side effects.

 

Now Dear Ben, whatever you do, discuss all of this with your doctors, but just know that very few of them are true experts in the field of benzo addiction, withdrawal and tapering...You may have to educate them along the way, I had to. But you will get some really good advice from many of the members here who have been through all of this themselves and have effectively guided lots of others to a successful taper and cessation of benzo use

 

All the best to you Buddy, you are in our prayers,

 

 

Wilson 

 

[[Bu...]]

Hi Ben,

 

I saw the posts from Magnolis and your question about filling capsules. First of all when tapering it is amazing how your body will notice when the dosage is not just right. Having inconsistent and inaccurate cuts is not a good idea at all and may cause withdrawal side effects, being extremely accurate is best by far as opposed to guessing or eyeballing.

 

I have designed many liquid tapers for folks here at Benzo Buddies and would be happy to help you with yours should that be the way that you want to go. Of course others here are very good at it as well.

 

Basically this is done by pre mixing a pill or capsule with a known amount of water, then by using a graduated measuring plastic syringe you simply pull off the exact dose that is needed on any given day. There is no need to mix everyday as the unused portion can be saved and used at the next dose. In your case you may use a combination of tablet and liquid as the case may be and the dose changes.

 

This is quite easy to do once the math is figured out, again I can help with the math and provide explicit details if you'd like. Including the three measuring and storage "tools" that will be needed which can be purchased for under $20 total on Amazon.com.

 

When I tapered I found that a daily liquid micro taper was the best with less side effects than cut and hold. Very small daily cuts are easy to do using a liquid method.

 

Good Luck,

 

 

Wilson

 

 

 

[[Ma...]]

  QUOTE::::

 

Having said that I think that you may be well served by crossing over to Valium for the following reasons:

 

1) The much longer half life will completely eliminate inter-dose issues and will also smooth things over while tapering by staying in your system longer.

 

2) You will probably have better and longer sleep than from the Temazepam, I did.

 

3) Valium is often prescribed for and is good for treating seizures.

 

4) As the Valium builds up in your system you can do a larger quick taper after a few days, then settle in to a slow and steady taper over a few months.

 

5) The crossover equivalency of 7.5mg Temazepam would be 3.75mg of Valium.

 

6) The pill sizes will be easier to deal with when tapering, especially with a liquid daily micro taper.

 

----------------------------

 

I was not able to directly taper from Temazapam due to extreme sickness.

There are some pros;;; sleep got better

BIG CONS:

 

It is going to take me over 1.5 years total. I had no idea what my body's reaction would be to valium. In November at 10 mg Valium, I tried to increase the taper rate and got violently sick and horribly depressed.

 

Temazapam is one of the ONLY benzos that is not as potent as Valium. This needs to be taken into consideration for this decisison. If there is a comfortable possibility of direct, that IMO would be the best route to go.

 

Valium is a very different animal than Temazapam. It is twice as potent. I understand the conversion aspect, but that does not discount the potency. You NEVER see people on this forum with long term issues from direct temazapam tapering,( IE Kmerck) . In fact, very few people join with issues concerning temazapam. There is a tiny percentage. 

 

The buildup of Valium, up to 200 hrs of half life vs 10 hrs of temazapam, in the elderly, could be a major issue that needs to be discussed with a health care individual.

 

Valium has caused problems for many people. I feel very good now that taper rate has smoothed out. BUT deal with the dread every day, of how long this is going to take, when I have to decrease my taper amount, ect.  You never know what is around the corner. 

 

The cruel truth is:  it wasn't as easy or  as quick as I thought. In fact it will take almost 3 times longer than people who could titrate direct from temazapam.  I've seen taper times from 5 to 9 months. vs 1.5 years with valium. These people were on 15 to 30 mg of temazapam

 

You are on such a small dose 7.5 which may further simplify things.

 

The truth is NO ONE knows the answer for you. This is an unknown science based on individual metabolisms age, and drug.

 

 

In summary, my situation was so serious, I had no choice.  If I had had a choice, I would have gone direct.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[[Bu...]]

 

I was not able to directly taper from Temazapam due to extreme sickness.

There are some pros;;; sleep got better

BIG CONS:

 

It is going to take me over 1.5 years total. I had no idea what my body's reaction would be to valium. In November at 10 mg Valium, I tried to increase the taper rate and got violently sick and horribly depressed.

 

Temazapam is one of the ONLY benzos that is not as potent as Valium. This needs to be taken into consideration for this decisison. If there is a comfortable possibility of direct, that IMO would be the best route to go.

 

Valium is a very different animal than Temazapam. It is twice as potent. I understand the conversion aspect, but that does not discount the potency. You NEVER see people on this forum with long term issues from direct temazapam tapering,( IE Kmerck) . In fact, very few people join with issues concerning temazapam. There is a tiny percentage. 

 

The buildup of Valium, up to 200 hrs of half life vs 10 hrs of temazapam, in the elderly, could be a major issue that needs to be discussed with a health care individual.

 

Valium has caused problems for many people. I feel very good now that taper rate has smoothed out. BUT deal with the dread every day, of how long this is going to take, when I have to decrease my taper amount, ect.  You never know what is around the corner. 

 

The cruel truth is:  it wasn't as easy or  as quick as I thought. In fact it will take almost 3 times longer than people who could titrate direct from temazapam.  I've seen taper times from 5 to 9 months. vs 1.5 years with valium. These people were on 15 to 30 mg of temazapam

 

You are on such a small dose 7.5 which may further simplify things.

 

The truth is NO ONE knows the answer for you. This is an unknown science based on individual metabolisms age, and drug.

 

 

In summary, my situation was so serious, I had no choice.  If I had had a choice, I would have gone direct.

 

Magnolis,

 

You made some very good points; it is always so nice to hear the thoughts from others that went through a similar challenge, Benrest is in good hands.

 

My main thoughts which were intimated by my questions to Benrest were in regards to inter-dose withdrawal which can be significant with short half-life benzos like Temazepam. Also I was on Temazepam for a while and had very strange symptoms from it, similar to what others can experience with Zolpidem and other Z-drugs, notably sleep walking and a trance-like stupor. Also Benrest had mentioned Seizures in his post and Valium is good for addressing those as well.

 

As far as the time for taper is concerned, I would think that a daily micro taper schedule of .75% per day would get this taper done in around 6-8 months. Again I think that the extended time that valium stays in the system would be helpful in "blending" the daily taper.

 

Keep up the good work on your taper Magnolis! All the best,

 

Wilson

[[Ma...]]

 

 

QUOTE

As far as the time for taper is concerned, I would think that a daily micro taper schedule of .75% per day would get this taper done in around 6-8 months.

 

Wilson,

If you look at my signature you will see I started at .30% a day and after a month thought I "should" go faster and increased to .40% a day.  I descended into a hell I can't describe.  To suggest that anyone "should" be able to reduce at .75 % could cause irreparable damage to a person's nervous system, if their system won't allow this high daily reduction. That's twice as high as my high end and I was thinking bad thoughts and in withdrawal. You were blessed, if you could tolerate that.  I was not lucky and didn't know how slow I would have to go till I crossed to valium.

 

That's exactly the problem. There is no "shoulds". Your body sets the limit due to age,sex,genetics,ect.

[[Bu...]]

 

 

QUOTE

As far as the time for taper is concerned, I would think that a daily micro taper schedule of .75% per day would get this taper done in around 6-8 months.

 

Wilson,

If you look at my signature you will see I started at .30% a day and after a month thought I "should" go faster and increased to .40% a day.  I descended into a hell I can't describe.  To suggest that anyone "should" be able to reduce at .75 % could cause irreparable damage to a person's nervous system, if their system won't allow this high daily reduction. That's twice as high as my high end and I was thinking bad thoughts and in withdrawal. You were blessed, if you could tolerate that.  I was not lucky and didn't know how slow I would have to go till I crossed to valium.

 

That's exactly the problem. There is no "shoulds". Your body sets the limit due to age,sex,genetics,ect.

 

Fair enough Magnolis,

 

I based my comments predicated upon crossing over to Valium and the fact that a dose of 7.5mg of Temazepam for 3 years was the history. But I do agree that 20 years of up to 30mg is a very different thing. And of course everyone is different. I never did say "should" and would certainly hope that Benrest would run all of these ideas by a well qualified physician.

 

Again the long half life of Valium has a lot to do with my suggestion. Having said all of that I will defer to your expertise. If you think that a direct taper of Temazepam over a few months is a better way to go, I will let you make that case and pull away...

 

Finally I feel that you and I debating this while we are just brainstorming is not helpful to poor Benrest... And I certainly hope that I didn't cause any grief to you by getting involved with this thread, I feel that I may have touched a nerve, I am so sorry if I did. I only try to be helpful and encouraging... Be well my friend.

 

Best of luck to you Mags in your continued taper, I sincerely do wish you all the best, My prayers to all involved. 

 

 

Wilson