Librium or Valium for taper?

[[Rh...]]

Hi, I know I've posted before, but I was on Valium down to 5 mgs when I hit a wall.  I did genetics testing and I ultra rapidly metabolize Valium.  My doctor switched me to the equivalent of Librium in hopes that it would help. It did for literally, maybe a week, and now I feel the same but more anxious and depressed on the Librium.  Should I switch back to Valium and just dose more frequently with smaller cuts or stick to Librium?  I know everyone is different, but any input would be nice.

 

Rach

[[be...]]

I'd pick the least evil of them for you and stick with it accepting that no matter what there might be bumps along with way. B

[[Ma...]]

I am on Librium. It is much weaker than Valium, despite the equivalent dosage and you need to adjust. It is probably easier to taper Librium overall because it is a weaker drug. The only issue is it doesn't come in tablet form in the US and it is not stable in water. It is a water soluble benzo as well, so it may or may not build up less in the fatty tissues of your body. Valium is definitely more lipid/fat soluble than Librium. I would stay with the Librium if you can handle it. Just look at the upsides I guess. At the end of the day Librium is still a benzo though but the lesser of two evils.

[[Rh...]]

Mamoot-

 

Not sure if my last post went through...having computer problems!  I might stick with the Librium if it's less "potant" and won't stick around as long as the Valium.  If that's what I'm understanding?  I don't know much about benzos so all this info is new to me.

 

You said it's not water soluble...I was hoping to daily liquid micro taper and have read it's ok to use water to dissolve it?  I was going to make a fresh batch each day.  Is that ok?  How are you tapering and you're hoping to be done by May this year.  That's a great goal! I would like to know how your doing this as being on it just makes me sick and getting off sooner than later is just going to prolong my suffering I feel.

 

Thanks so much!!!

[[mm...]]

Valium is longest acting benzo.  Whatever works best for you, if you metabolize fast like I do then multiple doses are best. love and strength to you.

[[Rh...]]

mmcelwaine-

 

How did u find out you rapidly metabolize Valium?  How did you taper, dry cutting, liquid titration...how much a month.  I guess I'm looking for people in the same predicament and what they've done.

 

Rach

 

 

 

 

[[mm...]]

I have a very fast metabolism.....period. I am assuming it is the same for valium.  What I found was that one dose would not cut it for me as I would suffer adrenalin rushes anxiety between doses. I tapered using a compound of 0.1 mg valium capsules I had made special. love and strength.

[[Ma...]]

Hey Rhernanhtown: Librium is water soluble.... but it is not stable in water and will degrade if you leave it in solution. If you compound it in water it will be good for 12-36 hours probably....I think. Just don't store it in water. I have a microgram scale, so I will just weigh out half a capsule toward the end. The Ashton Manual recommends tapering Librium by increments of 5mg and 2.5mg at the end. I'm at 20mg right now so: 15, 10, 7.5, 5.0, 2.5, 0mg.

[[Ma...]]

I take Librium in two divided doses. That is super important. You should be taking 5mg in the morning and 10mg in the evening. It just keeps it more even and makes the taper smoother. That's how it is displayed in the Ashton Manual.

[[Rh...]]

Mamoot-

 

I actually do twice in equal doses as opposed to more at night...my doctor told me to do this.  He actually said 5, 5 & 5, but that was making me feel overdosed??!!

 

So you'll be taking off 1/2 a capsule at one time every two weeks? I'm thinking of 10% every month.  So my next cut will be 13.5 msg.  I don't know, so confused???  I followed Ashton on my Valium taper up until 3 mgs so I'm scared to follow her exactly!

[[Ma...]]

5mg in the morning and 10mg at night is according to the Ashton Manual example.

 

...then 5mg, 5mg

....then 2.5mg, 5.0mg

....then 0mg, 2.5mg

....then 0mg

 

You can go at your own pace. She recommends drop 1-2 weeks. I'm going to take as much time as I need in between drops but I'm sticking to this dropping schedule. I'll take up to 3-4 weeks a drop though. It will be more painful, emotionally, to go slower than this drop schedule imo.

 

The addictionologist that I'm seeing wrote my 15mg script this last visit for three times a day too, but I'm on the two times a day plan and I'm not disturbing my bodies flow, so I'll just stick to twice a day. I suggest you just follow the Ashton example. It makes it easier and it's something to set a goal to imo.

[[Rh...]]

Ok, I'm sorry but what does "imo" mean???  I have no idea about these acronyms. Lol

 

So you think going slower is harder emotionally and physically?  I totally agree. I look at some long tapers and it freaks me out!!!

 

Rach

[[be...]]

I've never followed Ashton but rather set my own plan according to what worked for me. I found rules, do this, don't do that are simply unique to everyone. I don't dose 3X a day because it's too sedating. I dose 4X. Works well for me. There are good guidelines but if needed sometimes we need our own path. Too fast, too slow...to me it's whatever works is good. If it doesn't I simply tweak my plan a bit. It helps to have a good doctor on board in case you wander into uncharted territory but many do very well on their own. If you don't trust your doctor it's hard but still I'm all for finding what's best for us individually and finding support here when we need it. There's always somebody to share any common experiences. Good or bad. But still I'd make a decision on Valium or Librium, set your path and follow it. Tweaks allowed. B

[[Ma...]]

Ultimately, we can only taper as fast as our brains and bodies let us. imo means in my opinion. I want to get off Librium as quickly and safely as possible. I've been on benzos since Dec. 2014 and Librium since July 2016...and it is my fist time being addicted to benzos and I'm 32 years old. But I've been using opiates on and off since 2003, which makes tapering benzos difficult since my brain has already been compromised by a CNS depressant. I just want to get off Librium as quick as possible. I am so sick of this and won't go slower unless it was necessary. It's exciting. I just want to reach the summit.

[[be...]]

Whatever works Mamoot. Your own path. People have reached the summit of Everest...rapidly, slowly, with many difficulties or fewer difficulties but they reached the top. But I think they allowed for some tweaks. Let their bodies rest if necessary. Sometimes allowing for inclement weather as well. Ride the storm out if it comes. But then again it may not come at all. Go for it! B

[[be...]]

As many know I'm not an Ashton fan either. I agree with Karuna in the sense that her test subjects for lack of a better term were minimal but originally I didn't do my homework so took Valium which I regret. But having said that many do well with Valium so I still advocate strongly that whatever works for you is exactly the path you should take. If you're comfortable with your path stick with it. One way or another you'll succeed. Trial and error. I have my husband, my family, my dog and cat, my doctor and BB for support. I've found that these people are all I need and I'm content. Very content with my choices. And for those who are indeed on Valium as their choice don't despair or if your doing a long taper don't despair. Not all long tapers are problematic. Not at all. I don't believe that 12 step programmes are the right answer either but hey if they work...remember whatever works. If you're into eastern healing/religion if it works great. But if you're doing it your way now concentrate on that. Long term, short term. Valium, Xanax, Ativan, klonopin, Librium don't worry about it. They're all benzos. We'll all get well. In our own way and own time. Whatever works! And in my opinion for those of us who took these drugs as prescribed we are not addicted to them but rather have become unknowingly physically dependent on them. That's my humble opinion anyway. B

[[Ma...]]

Crossing over helps in some cases. I meditate and exercise. I like to listen to Alan Watts too. I went to an acupuncturist before during a dark time and it cost's too much money for the benefits imo. I prefer isolation float tanks, and maybe small amounts of edibles. That helps me unwind faster than acupuncture. It be nice to have an Asian girl friend grinding me up herbs right now in a mortar and pestle and sticking tiny needles all over me, giving me massages....I could probably taper 3 times faster.

[[be...]]

Lol Mamoot...in your dreams but still no doubt it would definitely "perk you up".  B

[[Ca...]]

Interesting... imho, What works for you, and what you decide, -which you can change, anytime you like!!!

This thread is an example of how many variations there can be, with the same goal in mind...

My first ever benzo dose was 10 mg in hospital as a one off... it worked fine, -not so for everyone it seems...

I have been bitten by both fast and slow tapering on opiates... -i was never mentally addicted as such, yet my body became hugely dependent...

Some would consider my V cuts too big, my last at 25% -i am doing fine, -this may change...

So yeah, sort through the advice, as it applys to you, make your choices, change or tweek as you need...

Some good info here...!

 

[[Rh...]]

Thanks for all the info...I am doing a 10% drop today so wish me luck...I have to start at some point and prolonging the agony isn't helping!

 

Rach

[[Ma...]]

Good luck. Let me know if you are compounding it in water. I want to know how that turns out.

[[be...]]

Best of luck Rach. You've made your choice so now on a path to follow. Keep us posted. We'll all get well. Big cuts, little cuts, fast cuts, slow cuts, holds, no holds we'll all end up well. Benzo free. No matter what benzo we choose to taper from. The trick is just to do it and follow the best path for you. And of course always lots of support for you here. B

[Guest [su...]]

Hi, I know I've posted before, but I was on Valium down to 5 mgs when I hit a wall.  I did genetics testing and I ultra rapidly metabolize Valium.  My doctor switched me to the equivalent of Librium in hopes that it would help. It did for literally, maybe a week, and now I feel the same but more anxious and depressed on the Librium.  Should I switch back to Valium and just dose more frequently with smaller cuts or stick to Librium?  I know everyone is different, but any input would be nice.

 

Rach

 

I am the opposite way in metabolise Valium. I am a slow metabolizer. And my w/d hit me for a really long time. When you was on Valium when did your w/d start?

Mine start normal at day 3-4 peak 6-9 new round 14 -19...But the lower dose it changed to start day 6 peak 8-19...

Except last cut. Start like normal day 3...peak day 6-9 but now my 2 week rebound hit me. Maybe a lower dose set my w/d earlier?!

And even a new rebound week 3,4 but just minor sxs.

My doc wants to put me on Clonazepam and w/d 1 mg in one month!!! Never ever!!

[[Ca...]]

Rach,- my very best wishes... u will b fine... its the unknown that is a challenge, sometimes its good to look back to see your strength... it doesnt have to get worse, people here have provided the info that has helped my taper feel better...

Good luck...

 

Hey Sun... -just for interest... I can feel a cut in 12hrs...! -but only in my digestive, all other sx are day (well night realy), 3-4, worst 6-8, ok on 14... I havnt held longer for last couple of cuts, to see if i still get those later bumps that i did before i slowed up...?

[[Rh...]]

So went to my benzo doctor and he is having my Librium compounded for me.  He also wants me to drink grapefruit juice 1/2 hour before taking my dose...I guess grapefruit juice slows the metabolism of many drugs, including some, if not all, benzos.  We will see???

 

Keep you posted, haven't received my compound yet.

 

Rach