Need general advice

[[pf...]]

First, I'd like to say I know how to taper in a way that works for me, as long as I can sleep, that is. I've been on 1 mg clonazepam a day for about 4 years now and luckily always refused any dosage increase. Also, I don't drink or take any other drugs, legal or otherwise, except the ones that I'm telling you about here. I've unsuccessfully tried to taper several times because I either did it too fast or did it wrong or just didn't stick with it like I should have. I'm one of the lucky ones (sarcasm) who has a big reaction to any cut no matter how small. Anyway, to the point. During my most successful taper my insomnia was so bad I reinstated and got my doctor to prescribe mirtazapine 7.5 mg at night and it worked beautifully for me. I still had withdrawals but I could handle that as long as I got a good night's sleep. I eventually got down to 1/2 milligram a day of clonazepam over about a year's time, a 50% cut. I was so proud of myself. Then the mirtazapine stopped working one day seemingly all at once and I couldn't sleep at all any more. Out of desperation I reinstated my clonazepam to 1 mg a day a little over a month ago until my next doctor's appt. which was maybe a month away. So a few weeks ago my doctor prescribed quietapine for sleep which works well and he told me I could stop taking the mirtazapine. I stopped the mirtazapine and 2 days later I was in hell so I reinstated the mirtazapine. So now I'm back on 1 mg clonazepam in the morning as soon as I wake up to keep myself from freaking out during the day (i'm still almost shaking writing this), 7.5 mg mirtazapine at bedtime which isn't helping my sleep, and now have added 25 mg quietapine at bedtime. I'm now getting at least 8 hours sleep a night. But, if I don't take these two meds I get zero sleep. I know at some point the quietapine will poop out just like the mirtazapine did so I'm working against the clock here, or so I feel. I know everybody says there's no rush, to take your time with your taper and listen to your body, but if my sleep meds poop out again I'll be in "looking-for-something-to-hang-myself-with" hell again. So my question is, should I stay on both sleep meds and taper the clonazepam first and get off the other two last? Should I taper the mirtazapine first since it isn't working anyway and I'm only taking it now to not get sick? I don't think I could stand tapering both at the same time. I'm getting desperate here and need some advice because I can't think straight 99% of the time. The clonazepam is destroying my life. Thanks for putting up with my probably rambling and somewhat incoherent post. I feel like I'm leaving something out but I could be imagining it for all I know.

[[Be...]]

Klonopin sucks, that's for sure. I'd get off that first since with the two other drugs you are getting sleep. Sure, those could poop out too, but getting K out of your system would be a good thing. Sorry you are hurting so bad.

[[pf...]]

Thanks, Benniejets, for helping to confirm that I'm thinking correctly on how to go about this. So, my plan now is to stabilize and start tapering again and keep taking the sleep meds during the taper. Then after I'm off Klonopin I can deal with getting off the sleep meds which in no way could be worse than the hell that is benzo withdrawal. I should be feeling better in just a few days and I'll start my Klonopin taper again. Thanks to the various gods for this forum because my friends and family tell me "it's all in my head" to which I say, "Exactly, it is all in my head, that's the problem and you can't possibly understand and never will and don't even try."

[[ti...]]

Im not sure how long you have been on the quietapine, but if you have not yet developed a dependence on there I would start with that. I too started with 7.5mg of mirtazapine and it stopped helping with the sleep, so I stopped for a while, no problems, but ended up on 15mg to help sleep,

I dont think you are going to be able to escape some insomnia. But do you want multiple dependencies plus insomnia?

Or try cutting out the quietapine a few days a week, while tapering the clonazepam

[[pf...]]

tinwi2016, I've only been on the quetiapine for about 2 weeks, but without it I get about 4 hours sleep a week. With it I get 8 hours a night. I know it's a bad drug, but could getting off of 25 mgs of quetiapine a night for, let's say a year,  possibly even come close to the hell that's benzo withdrawal?

Edit: I can't sleep with 15 mg mirtazapine. An increase doesn't help at all.

Edit #2: No, I don't want multiple dependencies. That's the point of why I started this thread, I think. Also, I hope I don't sound confrontational, because I appreciate any advice. Thanks.

[[ti...]]

You dont sound confrontational, no worries.

I honestly dont know what quietapine withdrawal would be like. Also didnt know you were only getting 4 hours of sleep per week.

Without the mertazapine I sleep every other night.

So maybe you should start with the clonazepam.  At least you know the quietapine will stop working. However, i would try to go without on weekends or whenever you dont need much sleep so you dont get tolerant as fast

There is a whole board devoted to insomnia too so you may get some answers there

[[be...]]

Many suffer from insomnia. I'm on 15 mg of Remeron which I think might not be as great for sleep anymore but it has been a lifesaver. I'm not sure about the other sleep Med but if you sleep I'd take it for now. Worry about the klonopin first...lol no up dosing...then wean off the other 2 later. If you're worried about them and the Remeron isn't working try taking off just a quarter for a bit and so forth. I can get by with half my Remeron without issue. Usually for most people weaning off is relatively easy but definitely make klonopin your first priority. It's actually usually ok to stop Remeron during withdrawal but if you can't so be it. Do it later. B

[[pf...]]

Thanks for the advice everybody. I'll post about this in the insomnia forum as soon as I feel better. I honestly can't think straight right now.

[[Tr...]]

I seem to be one of the few people on this forum that had an absolute hellish withdrawal from Mirtazapine. Seriously, it was second only to benzo withdrawal for me.

 

I tried tapering from both Xanax and Mirtazapine at the same time. I wouldn't recommend it. I eventually decided to get off Mirt first then Xanax.

 

I took Trazodone for a while for sleep. It worked well for me and discontinuation was relatively painless. But again, there seem to be a lot of folks here who have had negative experiences with it.

 

Whatever you decide I wish you the best of luck.

[[be...]]

It's crummy Triumph. We never find out our poison until we've tried it. Sad but true and it sucks. B

[[pf...]]

I found this thread that seems to have some of the info I need that I'm just going to leave here for future reference:

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=118052.0

 

Edit: After reading that thread and some digging around on the net, I see that seroquel in low doses is an antihistamine and an α1-adrenergic blocker. The antihistaminic properties it seems helps sleep, and blocking the α1-adrenergic receptor causes reduction of noradrenaline (but not adrenaline itself) to some extent and lowering of blood pressure which would be beneficial during benzo withdrawal, I guess. But if I'm reading that right, the flip-side of that is that when you quit taking seroquel, or if tolerance develops, it would increase rebound anxiety in some way. I think for now since I'm not dependent on it yet I'm going to try lowering my dose from 25 mg a day (at night) to as low as I can get it in small steps and still get a helpful effect. My shrink prescribed 100 mg seroquel at night and 25 mg in the morning and 25 mg in the afternoon for benzo withdrawal insomnia (150 mg every 24 hours), so taking at or less than 25 mg a day, I'll have enough to last a year without getting a refill (I got 270 50 mg pills in that one prescription fill all at once). I'm going to try slowly reducing my remeron too, just a little and see how it goes. Well, at least I'm not in absolute horrible agony because I know what that's like. My symptoms now are just high anxiety and blood pressure, heart palpitations, and periods of mental cloudiness. Oh, and horrible insomnia that right now is being controlled mostly, so I consider myself lucky in that it could be much, much worse. Also, I know I might should post this somewhere else, so someone who is more coherent than me might be able to help me organize this info a little better, and if so I would appreciate it. If it's okay leaving it here I'm okay with that too.

[[pf...]]

I wanted to report that I feel better today and can think clearly, for now anyway. The suggestions to not take so much sleep meds seems to have helped. Last night I cut my seroquel from 25 mg to 12.5 mg, and my remeron from 7.5 mg to 3.75 mg and I slept 8 hours. I'm still reinstated on my 1 mg klonopin although it still makes me unable to sleep before I even start tapering because I'm having a paradoxical reaction to the klonopin which keeps me awake even on my full 1 mg a day dose. My successful klonopin taper down to 50% (from 1 mg day to 0.5 mg day) was hijacked by the remeron pooping out so I see I'm going to have to not rely on sleep meds as much. If I take sleep meds every night they're going to poop out and I'll be back in the same boat that I just recovered from. So I'm going to first taper the remeron that doesn't work any more, and only use the seroquel that I don't have a tolerance to yet sparingly and not every night. The remeron I'll save for future use because if I stop taking it for a month or longer it should begin to work again occasionally for insomnia. Then I can switch up the seroquel and remeron (not taking something for sleep every night!) to keep from getting a tolerance to either. Then I'll only take it every few days when I'm desperate for sleep. So it appears I was relying on sleep meds to try to get a full 8 hours of sleep every night during my taper which I now see is an unrealistic expectation. Thanks for everyone's input. I'll now start my own taper log and maybe ask a mod to move this thread to the insomnia section because now I see the taper wasn't the problem because I was at least doing that right. I already know how to taper. Wrapping my head around how to only use sleep meds sparingly was a hard lesson learned. So, in a few days when I feel ready I'll start my taper again. Eventually I will win this hellish battle.

[[ti...]]

Glad to hear you have a plan

[[pf...]]

Started progress log http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=172998.0.