waves and windows with sleep.

[[te...]]

Hi everybody,

 

I know everyone's healing phases are vastly different - has anyone noticed any particular patterns with windows and waves with regards to sleep?

 

My sense of whether I'm in a window or a wave is pretty clouded right now.. a LOT of things have improved, like my anxiety and restlessness. I haven't had a panic experience in a long time. I've let go of much of my catastrophic thinking. Sleep is the remaining challenge. And don't get me wrong, my sleep has improved a GREAT deal since this all started. I've gone through a lot of phases.. from not sleeping all night/1-2 hours a night, to waking up every hour, to taking forever to fall asleep, to sleeping every other night and having issues the off nights. The past month have seen the greatest improvements, when we were on vacation I only had THREE nights with sleep onset difficulties and TWO nights where I woke up and couldn't go back to sleep out of about 15 days. We got back home 3 days ago, I immediately traveled again (just a few hours) to do a trail running race, stayed with a friend. Couldn't fall asleep night before race (probably because I was nervous and had to be awake at a certain time) and took unisom, which took awhile but eventually helped. The next night I had adrenaline jolts (guessing my body was in shock from the race!) but eventually fell asleep and just woke up several times.. and last night it was sleep onset trouble again. Finally took unisom again and put on my delta sleep music and eventually slept. I just HATE when I have to take something, both because it feels like I can't sleep without it, and also because I'm afraid they won't work consistently.  I have drastically cut down use of medical sleep aids. I still have my unisom and mirtazapine and try to only take them when it seems like sleep with evade me. I know I'm doing a lot better, just wish things would stabilize with longer windows! I know I'm preaching to the choir.

 

I think I'm in a bit of a wave. Fortunately I feel okay during the days and don't worry/obsess about sleep, not sleeping, or health anxiety like I used to. I'm sure all the traveling had something to do with it, plus doing a BIG race (50K) in bad weather probably shocked my body. I also have some uncertainty hanging over my head, waiting to hear from a job I interviewed for which would be a life changing thing. My windows seem to last a few days, and then a wave will come, and then a window again.. frequent cycling. Not sure if this is a good sign or what. Anyone else?

 

Thanks for listening to my ramble.

[[je...]]

Hi Tealwater!  I am glad you mentioned "cycling" days of sleep in your post.  I am only 3 months off Valium and notice that there are several days of crappy sleep and then one night I sleep for 6 hours straight (aahhh....)  Let's hope some of our other buddies have something to offer, either encouragement or tips to sleep consistently. 

 

Any non-drug processes that work (delta sleep wave CD or hypnosis or acupressure) is good.  For me, when I ingest a product/Rx, it's usually guaranteed to make a person feel AWFUL the following day!  Also, if I inadvertently have something with MSG or similar additive, it prevents me from falling asleep or I awake very early and can't get back to sleep. 

 

I personally think the wave/windows of sleep, and any improvement thereof, is a big PLUS in showing our body is healing.  Be well.

[[te...]]

Thanks so much for your response!!! Yes, i definitely notice there are these cycles happening. Perhaps I always had patterns with my sleep but never noticed it before now when it's become more pronounced. I much prefer the nights of frequent waking over the nights where it seems like I will never fall asleep! But I know I have no control over this.

 

Agreed that ingesting things often create weird effects the next day. I try to minimize the use of pills, but I also don't beat myself up when I need them. SO many people use something (even people who never used benzos and are just "regular" bad sleepers, haha) so I try to show myself compassion.

 

Totally agree that this must be a sign of healing. The body is trying to regulate itself. Thanks again for your kind words!

[[...]]

hey teal, glad to hear that you have improved a lot so far.. it seems to me that you are getting good sleep most nights and basically on the right track so i wouldn't worry too much..

 

interested to know your experience with the mirtizapine? how much do you take and does it help you sleep better than than the unisom?

 

also during your worst phase did you really only get 1/2 hours per night? was that every night? every other night? how long did that go on for before improvement.. and how did you cope? i need some inspiration as my sleep is very bad atm

 

luv and hugs XOX

 

Hi everybody,

 

I know everyone's healing phases are vastly different - has anyone noticed any particular patterns with windows and waves with regards to sleep?

 

My sense of whether I'm in a window or a wave is pretty clouded right now.. a LOT of things have improved, like my anxiety and restlessness. I haven't had a panic experience in a long time. I've let go of much of my catastrophic thinking. Sleep is the remaining challenge. And don't get me wrong, my sleep has improved a GREAT deal since this all started. I've gone through a lot of phases.. from not sleeping all night/1-2 hours a night, to waking up every hour, to taking forever to fall asleep, to sleeping every other night and having issues the off nights. The past month have seen the greatest improvements, when we were on vacation I only had THREE nights with sleep onset difficulties and TWO nights where I woke up and couldn't go back to sleep out of about 15 days. We got back home 3 days ago, I immediately traveled again (just a few hours) to do a trail running race, stayed with a friend. Couldn't fall asleep night before race (probably because I was nervous and had to be awake at a certain time) and took unisom, which took awhile but eventually helped. The next night I had adrenaline jolts (guessing my body was in shock from the race!) but eventually fell asleep and just woke up several times.. and last night it was sleep onset trouble again. Finally took unisom again and put on my delta sleep music and eventually slept. I just HATE when I have to take something, both because it feels like I can't sleep without it, and also because I'm afraid they won't work consistently.  I have drastically cut down use of medical sleep aids. I still have my unisom and mirtazapine and try to only take them when it seems like sleep with evade me. I know I'm doing a lot better, just wish things would stabilize with longer windows! I know I'm preaching to the choir.

 

I think I'm in a bit of a wave. Fortunately I feel okay during the days and don't worry/obsess about sleep, not sleeping, or health anxiety like I used to. I'm sure all the traveling had something to do with it, plus doing a BIG race (50K) in bad weather probably shocked my body. I also have some uncertainty hanging over my head, waiting to hear from a job I interviewed for which would be a life changing thing. My windows seem to last a few days, and then a wave will come, and then a window again.. frequent cycling. Not sure if this is a good sign or what. Anyone else?

 

Thanks for listening to my ramble.

[[Qu...]]

Hi everybody

 

Teal, you are describing exactly what I have experienced! I have learned to accept the multiple wakes too, as I understand it is getting the sleep cycles that is important, and they are 1 - 2 hours long, so our bodies are doing fine, just waking a little too much after each one.

 

I also had those runs of several good days followed by a bad run, or an up and down run. They gradually got longer, and the bad runs have more ups than downs now.

 

I'm keeping a diary which I will eventually publish on recovery stories which shows these patterns really clearly. I think it's normal, and part of the healing process.

 

I stopped all meds by about June. By November, I was feeling so much better, only 4 really bad nights in the whole month. I still get bad beginnings, but can now relax and eventually drift off, so not a complete disaster. Same with middle night awakenings, eventually I sleep again now.

 

Wishing everbody a good night tonight xxx

[[te...]]

Thank you guys all for your wonderful replies!!

 

Queen, so cool you are going to share the diary in a future post. that will likely help a lot of people! i was tracking for awhile but stopped because it was taking up a lot of time, LOL. I have a pretty good memory though, so I could probably estimate things i suppose.

 

will post more later, hugs to all!

[[Qu...]]

Hi Teal, If you found the summary useful, here is the day by day thing showing the windows and waves. It's a lot like you have described. For those who missed my key, Red is 0-2 hrs, Orange 2-4, Yellow 4-5, Green 5-6.5, Blue 7, Purple will be eight, haven't had any yet. Always wake every hour or two, that hasn't changed yet.

 

May Too sick to record, mostly 2-3 hrs max, many sleepless nights.

June Too sick first two weeks, started to get some better nights at the end

July GRGGOGOGGGROYYOYOGRGGOYGGGOGYGY

 

Aug ORRBRGBRYYBYOYGGGRYYYYGBBGBGRBG

 

Sep BBYOGOBOGYBYRGRYYOBGGGYBBRGROG

 

Oct RRGGBGBGRBRBGYGOBGOGOBRGGBOBRGO

 

Nov GBBBGYBYBGRBBBGRGGBBRBGGBYBYGO

 

Dec BBGGBBGBGBGBYGRBGBGBBGBGGOBBRBG

 

Jan OGBGGGGGYBGB

 

Hope this helps see how recovery ups and downs...it really is getting better.

[[te...]]

I love that greens and blues are the nights with lots of hours, because those colors are my fave! Cool that purple is 8 too. I kinda want start a code like this for sleep or other things in life (like days I eat enough vegetables, or remember to meditate, etc). There is definitely a trend toward more cool colors which is fantastic!

 

I'm noticing just my own observations, that days I am more mentally tired, I sleep more the next night. Physically tired doesn't necessarily make a difference with me, but that's just me. I ran a 50K trail race last saturday and my body was destroyed but trying to sleep I was hit with 10 adrenaline jolts for awhile before I could actually sleep and still woke up a lot that night. My brain needs to actually be exhausted for whatever reason.

 

Thanks for sharing, this is so neat!

[[Qu...]]

You are much fitter than me, Teal, but I've never been a runner, even when I was younger!

 

I try to walk every day, at least two miles. Like you, I find there's no guarantee that exercise will make me sleep, but it used to help control the anxiety a bit. As time goes by, I have noticed that being tired from a bad night has increasingly given me a better night following. It's as if 18 hours isn't enough for the sleep drive to kick in, but 36 hours is. Of course, in acute, nothing made any difference.

 

I only had those jolts once last month. For me, they faded quite quickly after about four months.

 

The changes I have made are - regular bed and wake times, stop eating main meal in the evening, no caffeine after 2pm, single ingredient foods (I'm coeliac, so have to be extra careful), wind down time before bed for half hour where I turn off tv and computers and dim the lights. Hubby does acupressure for anxiety and insomnia (we looked it up online), and I do mindfulness meditation at least once a day. I used to nap, or at least lie down for an hour, after lunch, but stopped that as my sleep has improved.

 

I'm one of those 'no meds' people now because this scared me so much. Don't know whether they would have helped me, just wasn't willing to risk it!

 

Hope you get better quickly 

[[...]]

hey queen - i think your color coding tracking of your sleep is really great.. i track also but i just use boring old "numbers". the difficulty i find sometimes is estimating how much i sleep esp as it is soo broken.. also i have stopped looking at clock so much so makes it even harder.. not sure if you found it hard that way?

 

luv and hugs XOX

[[te...]]

Queen, I have recently started doing that no phone/no computer before bed thing too, I actually don't let myself look at phone starting at dinner time. That way, I reduce the blue light but also the chance of seeing a text message or something that might unsettle me or stress me out! My husband still watches TV but that doesn't seem to bother me as much. I can read while its on or face the other direction and rest and it doesn't bug me. I guess because it was never a habit, I dunno.

 

1966, I find its harder to estimate without looking at the clock but not seeing the clock makes the anxiety go down too!! I honestly don't know how much I get many nights, but I gauge by how I feel, I can tell if i'm getting a minimal "enough" amount. I think one thing that makes it harder for us is trying to figure out numbers and needing to know the numbers, it's another control thing, and trying to control sleep makes it that much harder. At least, I am thinking about this for myself. I think when I was tracking my sleep I would get discouraged with poor nights, it was like I was harder on myself, so I stopped doing it formally. Last night I was sleeping on the couch (on and off) and the dog and cat got into a little argument and woke me up, so I went to bed with my husband and I felt wide awake. I started mentally guestimating what time it must have been, and counting how many hours I got, and I wanted to look at a clock so bad! But I didn't let myself move. eventually, I fell into a light stage of sleep and then deeper sleep. I have no idea how long I was awake for. But i think the less I look at clocks, the easier it is not to care. It's like the paradoxical stuff like ACT and the Meadows book stuff, I hope that makes sense

 

Hope you both are doing well

[[Qu...]]

Hi Teal, 1966! My thoughts on clock watching...

 

I hide the clock under the pillow next to me so I can't hear it ticking. This didn't used to bother me, but now....

 

I only look at it when I feel an 'awake' sensation, and realize that I have just been dreaming. The time has usually moved on by an hour or two, which reassures me that all is well and I got another complete sleep cycle. On a good night, I fall asleep again within minutes. Or get up and go to the loo first  .

 

On a bad night when I'm lying awake, and haven't had the 'just been dreaming' feeling, I don't look at the clock much. I just lie quietly and try to do the mindfulness thing. Now I'm getting better, it's much harder to tell how much sleep I actually get on 'bad' nights because I usually get *some*, whereas as I used to get none. I can tolerate laying awake for ages in a way I never could before, and the hours don't drag so much. The anxiety visits me less often. On bad nights, checking the time discourages me, as I see the available window for sleep disappearing.

 

It's easier for me because I'm retired, so no pressure from work commitments.

 

My best wishes to everyone here for a good night tonight