Cannot possibly do this anymore

[[Da...]]

I woke up today after a horrific night of sleep and I'm just hopeless and done. Honestly, I don't know what to do anymore.

 

I held for 4 weeks in December and my symptoms got worse and worse and worse every week. I started dropping again after Christmas and I've seen a couple windows each week but then the pattern has set in - ok days mon, Tuesday, weds.... then horrid days Thursday-Sunday. Of course, the busier days are worse!

 

I just can't take these days though. I get so down, so anxious, and feel like I cannot possibly carry on like this another second let alone days and weeks and months.

 

I just don't know what to do anymore. Slow and holding doesn't help me and tapering weekly I'm feeling every symptom in the book. I'm damned if I hold and damned if I drop. 

 

Help 😩 Updosing isn't an option

[[pi...]]

Hello Dad24boys,

 

I'm sorry it's tough going for you.  All I can tell you is that I was sick for much of the time I was on clonazepam.  Initially, say the first few weeks I felt OK but then so many symptoms developed. I had several ER visits and of course no one could point to the drug as the cause.

 

When I finally decided the medication was making me ill, I searched for a new doctor and found one who did agree, after doing a lot of medical tests and seeing that I was basically "healthy". 

 

I didn't feel good but crossed to valium.  I tapered no matter what and never really felt good. There were days that were worse, about 2 days after each cut.

 

I just kept on cutting, far too large cuts, since I didn't find the forum until after my jump off.  I managed, barely at times.

 

I don't have good advice for you in terms of your taper but I can tell you that I am so glad I slogged my way through the taper.  My recovery was slow and longer than I wanted but the rewards were worth waiting for. Being benzo free and healed is simply amazing.

 

I hope you can find some solace in the fact that it does get better, so much better.

 

pianogirl 

[[Pl...]]

Dad.... I'm in the same boat exactly.... I feel how you feel with these sxs and the way they are happening to you.... I can't take it.... Its the sheer duration that gets to you...

[[ti...]]

.25 per week is a lot. I am doing a liquid titration and so far it hasnt been that bad. Can you switch?  Do you cut pills? I can stretch my prescriptions by using the liquid, nothing gets thrown away

[[Pl...]]

Pianogirl....1)  Did the 3 mg of Valium cover the 1 mg of k that you were on?

2) how long were you on the kpin before switching?

3) I feel so much better when a few extra hours have gone by and I don't take it

    I wonder if taking doses every other day would help instead of every day....

    Maybe Bataid will know much more

    I don't know

    There is definite neurotoxicity going on- Ashton's manual listed the sxs and I had every one

    I was never able to drink either-couldn't handle it...

 

Like right now I should have taken my dose an hour ago and the night before I took it at 7:30 pm when seizures started and I'm supposed to take it at 12:00 am and I'm still drunk out of my mind and feel better not taking it...

 

I am a lightweight and Kpin is slowly killing me..I am experiencing horrific side effects, semi comatose... Muscle pain burning....Experienced semi conscious seizures three in a row last night and kolonopin did not stop it.... Its causing it.......

 

I can no longer be on this drug and survive...

 

I am petrified to change anything as I've made so many already but this cannot be for my survival ... Meaning I feel the drug is harming me.... And my body will give out

There is no healing going on like this

 

Desperately emailed Bataid for expertise on how to safely get out of this...

 

My experience similar to yours that's why I asked...

I was on ativan sporadically never everyday

Then put on Kpin - 10 months later- I was semi okay at first too after the ativan injury - it was pulling me out

Now sicker then ever after 1 year on it barely able to reduce

 

Any input please....

 

Dad... Didnt mean to hijack thread..... I'm with you and I understand believe me every single thing you wrote.... I'm fighting for my life .....and for my mind and body to be healthy ...May peace and love surround you truly and sincerely..... It feels hopeless I know...

 

[[NY...]]

Hi Dad24boys,

 

Sorry to hear of your suffering.  Like you, I didn't feel good while holding, although I did start to feel better as I decreased my dose, cutting no more than 10% every 10 days or so.  This pace I understand is even too fast for most, but it worked really well for me.  I was still suffering terribly at 1mg, but kept going, and by about .25mg I had a huge turnaround and things got MUCH better from there on out.  Maybe try slowing it down a bit, see how things improve?  You can see how 10% off looks from 1mg K by looking at my signature. I did C/H, dry, using a $20 Gemeni scale.

 

WR

[[Fi...]]

I get it.

 

What we "can't take" is the dichotomy between our (hopes & expectations) versus (how we feel) in the apparent reality of our situation - and it is certainly related to the long duration.

 

If we had a really really bad flu, then we would more readily grant acceptance to our condition and to our situation - with a very different, more "can-do-even-if-we-hate-this" mindset - and we would give ourselves the permission to be sick and down and unwell and to take whatever time we needed to see the thing through. There are even ways we might - however reluctantly - pander to ourselves, with good understanding, allowing healing to emerge at its own pace. We would get as comfortable as possible and hunker down, "spoiling" ourselves with all the space and time we need, to come right.

 

But this! ... No!! We want to be better now! We want to fight and strive and struggle and push! There is no understanding allowed! We batter at the helplessness of our position (which is only a temporary, if lengthy, state) and come off worst. We metaphorically bang our heads harder, ramping up every emotion against our temporary condition and won't relent - and then we feel the results of that. And then, we wonder, at the same time, why we're not feeling any better and quite a bit worse!

 

This is an UTTER mug's game and a completely fooldhardy strategy. If we were advising someone else in (our) position, there is no way we would advise those people to do to themselves what we casually but persistently and harmfully do to ourselves - day in, day out.

 

The key to this long-haul dilemma is ACCEPTANCE. Utter, complete, boring, Let-Go acceptance. One day, one hour, one minute - if necessary - at a time. Each and every day the same - accept, accept - let go. Let go of all the struggling with it. Let go of striving and fighting and pushing. Pull back. Call a halt. Undo. Pace back. Come down out of it. Just stop. Just be.

 

Give yourself the compassion you would generously and unthinkingly give to others - and to anyone else individually - to yourself. Do it now. Do it everyday. Your healing WILL happen; it needs your cooperation and your help and your expertise in exactly this way, one day at a time, one tiny step at a time; onwards.

 

 

Love to all

 

:smitten:

 

 

 

 

[[Je...]]

Hi,

 

In my opinion, .25 mgs a week is too fast. Maybe get as stable as you can and then try going a little slower.  Liquid might also help you.

I was where you are now. It does get better. Just take one day at a time.

 

 

JennyK

[[be...]]

I understand your dosing issue and not wanting to take it. I'm having the same trouble with Valium that you are with klonopin. I take a dose then roughly 30 minutes later I feel worse but if I don't take it eventually I'm a mess as well. I'm not at jumping point yet. But with klonopin I was ok. Same with Ativan but it's noteworthy that I dry cut the klonopin and took off .25 every Two weeks. Not every week. I'd just finished the Ativan so went slowly with the klonopin. When I hit .25 of klonopin I was given the Valium and boy do I regret it because it started one more bloody drug as well as a much longer taper in the end. But I did cut my klonopin to .125 for a week, then .0625 for a few days. I wish I'd simply done this without the Valium. I felt so fantastic being off the Ativan and klonopin even though it at times was very hard. But now I feel a sense of urgency to get off this Valium as I'm sure you do with the klonopin. I'm finally back at 9 mg after a stupid updose back to 12 before Christmas and I'm not feeling well at all. I've got the flu and other issues so 9 was going great before but harder now. But I can take it because to me I simply have no other option. I've accepted that. I'm afraid I don't follow the 10 percent rules but I don't hesitate to use the rules if my body tells me to. I'm contemplating holding but unfortunately for me holds often result in setbacks for me so I plan to trudge on through. What I tell myself is that if it was any other drug, i.e. An antihistamine which make me totally freak out, what do I do? Even though I have dreadful hay fever I suffer through it. It's awful but I don't touch that antihistamine. But benzos are different yet the principle is the same. As long as my cuts are "safe" I plow through them and I'm often delighted that with some cuts I feel better. The lower I go the better. At least right now so I'm trying to take advantage of it. I might hit 8 get a nasty patch but Valium is hurting more than helping. To me it's logical to get off it without being stupid about it. So it's just me but if the dosing is making you sicker I'd keep on cutting. I think it's a sign that your body no longer wants that drug. It's really hard dad but you can do it. Imagine not having to wake up and take that little pill. Imagine a life without any benzos at all. That keeps me going everyday of my life right now. And of course my terrific buddies here on BB. Hang in there. It's worth it. B

[[Da...]]

Every one keeps saying .25 is too much per week but I'm only cutting .125 (half of .25mg)

 

That's currently 10% of my dose.  I refuse to hold or slow down. But my god this is awful.

[[be...]]

It is awful but good for you. I'll be rooting for you every single day. You're almost there. Go easy on yourself. B

[[...]]

This may be of no help at all, but sometimes it helps me to shake it up and do something we don't think we can do. The low confidence that comes with withdrawal is crippling. Something like a long walk or a bike ride or a trip to an old favorite store or something like that. I can certainly understand if you are not up to it, but the confidence boost might help. Good luck and hang in there!!

[[pi...]]

Pianogirl....1)  Did the 3 mg of Valium cover the 1 mg of k that you were on?

2) how long were you on the kpin before switching?

3) I feel so much better when a few extra hours have gone by and I don't take it

    I wonder if taking doses every other day would help instead of every day....

    Maybe Bataid will know much more

    I don't know

    There is definite neurotoxicity going on- Ashton's manual listed the sxs and I had every one

    I was never able to drink either-couldn't handle it...

 

Like right now I should have taken my dose an hour ago and the night before I took it at 7:30 pm when seizures started and I'm supposed to take it at 12:00 am and I'm still drunk out of my mind and feel better not taking it...

 

I am a lightweight and Kpin is slowly killing me..I am experiencing horrific side effects, semi comatose... Muscle pain burning....Experienced semi conscious seizures three in a row last night and kolonopin did not stop it.... Its causing it.......

 

I can no longer be on this drug and survive...

 

I am petrified to change anything as I've made so many already but this cannot be for my survival ... Meaning I feel the drug is harming me.... And my body will give out

There is no healing going on like this

 

Desperately emailed Bataid for expertise on how to safely get out of this...

 

My experience similar to yours that's why I asked...

I was on ativan sporadically never everyday

Then put on Kpin - 10 months later- I was semi okay at first too after the ativan injury - it was pulling me out

Now sicker then ever after 1 year on it barely able to reduce

 

Any input please....

 

Dad... Didnt mean to hijack thread..... I'm with you and I understand believe me every single thing you wrote.... I'm fighting for my life .....and for my mind and body to be healthy ...May peace and love surround you truly and sincerely..... It feels hopeless I know...

 

Hello Pleasebehere,

 

1)  Did the 3 mg of Valium cover the 1 mg of k that you were on?

 

No, the 3 mg of valium most definitely did not cover the 1mg of K.  I had trouble taking any more of the valium however, I did try. It sedated me so much I was randomly falling asleep.  I would even fall asleep before I took my nighttime dose.  My doctor and I were learning together so neither of us knew exactly what to do.

 

2) how long were you on the kpin before switching?

 

I was on K (clonazepam) for over a year before I understood it was making me sick.

 

3) I feel so much better when a few extra hours have gone by and I don't take it

   

 

This question is difficult to answer.  I do believe, after learning much more about this process, that it's best to keep a steady amount of benzo in the body while tapering. Otherwise you will confuse an already confused central nervous system.  Your situation is different because you feel better without the medication so I am not sure what to advise you.

 

It appears that the drug is backfiring on your body, or perhaps, you are feeling the withdrawals while still taking klonopin.  That was the case for me, I was in tolerance for so many many months.  It was the drug in a way, but it was my body being tolerant to the dose that caused my illness.

 

I hope this was a little help.

 

pianogirl 

[[Pl...]]

Pianogirl....1)  Did the 3 mg of Valium cover the 1 mg of k that you were on?

2) how long were you on the kpin before switching?

3) I feel so much better when a few extra hours have gone by and I don't take it

    I wonder if taking doses every other day would help instead of every day....

    Maybe Bataid will know much more

    I don't know

    There is definite neurotoxicity going on- Ashton's manual listed the sxs and I had every one

    I was never able to drink either-couldn't handle it...

 

Like right now I should have taken my dose an hour ago and the night before I took it at 7:30 pm when seizures started and I'm supposed to take it at 12:00 am and I'm still drunk out of my mind and feel better not taking it...

 

I am a lightweight and Kpin is slowly killing me..I am experiencing horrific side effects, semi comatose... Muscle pain burning....Experienced semi conscious seizures three in a row last night and kolonopin did not stop it.... Its causing it.......

 

I can no longer be on this drug and survive...

 

I am petrified to change anything as I've made so many already but this cannot be for my survival ... Meaning I feel the drug is harming me.... And my body will give out

There is no healing going on like this

 

Desperately emailed Bataid for expertise on how to safely get out of this...

 

My experience similar to yours that's why I asked...

I was on ativan sporadically never everyday

Then put on Kpin - 10 months later- I was semi okay at first too after the ativan injury - it was pulling me out

Now sicker then ever after 1 year on it barely able to reduce

 

Any input please....

 

Dad... Didnt mean to hijack thread..... I'm with you and I understand believe me every single thing you wrote.... I'm fighting for my life .....and for my mind and body to be healthy ...May peace and love surround you truly and sincerely..... It feels hopeless I know...

 

Hello Pleasebehere,

 

1)  Did the 3 mg of Valium cover the 1 mg of k that you were on?

 

No, the 3 mg of valium most definitely did not cover the 1mg of K.  I had trouble taking any more of the valium however, I did try. It sedated me so much I was randomly falling asleep.  I would even fall asleep before I took my nighttime dose.  My doctor and I were learning together so neither of us knew exactly what to do.

 

2) how long were you on the kpin before switching?

 

I was on K (clonazepam) for over a year before I understood it was making me sick.

 

3) I feel so much better when a few extra hours have gone by and I don't take it

   

 

This question is difficult to answer.  I do believe, after learning much more about this process, that it's best to keep a steady amount of benzo in the body while tapering. Otherwise you will confuse an already confused central nervous system.  Your situation is different because you feel better without the medication so I am not sure what to advise you.

 

It appears that the drug is backfiring on your body, or perhaps, you are feeling the withdrawals while still taking klonopin.  That was the case for me, I was in tolerance for so many many months.  It was the drug in a way, but it was my body being tolerant to the dose that caused my illness.

 

I hope this was a little help.

 

pianogirl 

 

Yes it was thank you piano girl! I think it was great that you were able to still just taper from taking 3 mg of Valium though it didnt cover the whole 1 mg of k... If I understood you correctly

I've heard of this before....people not needing the whole equivalency ....and were under dosed...

 

And yes I'm one of those people that feels much better without the benzo...

Our drug history is very similar

Except I think the reason my problems are so severe was the long gap in between stopping ativan and taking kolonopin ... That was a huge mistake and why I developed such long lasting sxs I still have...that Kpin is not helping

 

Thank you dearly for helping me....

[[pi...]]

Pianogirl....1)  Did the 3 mg of Valium cover the 1 mg of k that you were on?

2) how long were you on the kpin before switching?

3) I feel so much better when a few extra hours have gone by and I don't take it

    I wonder if taking doses every other day would help instead of every day....

    Maybe Bataid will know much more

    I don't know

    There is definite neurotoxicity going on- Ashton's manual listed the sxs and I had every one

    I was never able to drink either-couldn't handle it...

 

Like right now I should have taken my dose an hour ago and the night before I took it at 7:30 pm when seizures started and I'm supposed to take it at 12:00 am and I'm still drunk out of my mind and feel better not taking it...

 

I am a lightweight and Kpin is slowly killing me..I am experiencing horrific side effects, semi comatose... Muscle pain burning....Experienced semi conscious seizures three in a row last night and kolonopin did not stop it.... Its causing it.......

 

I can no longer be on this drug and survive...

 

I am petrified to change anything as I've made so many already but this cannot be for my survival ... Meaning I feel the drug is harming me.... And my body will give out

There is no healing going on like this

 

Desperately emailed Bataid for expertise on how to safely get out of this...

 

My experience similar to yours that's why I asked...

I was on ativan sporadically never everyday

Then put on Kpin - 10 months later- I was semi okay at first too after the ativan injury - it was pulling me out

Now sicker then ever after 1 year on it barely able to reduce

 

Any input please....

 

Dad... Didnt mean to hijack thread..... I'm with you and I understand believe me every single thing you wrote.... I'm fighting for my life .....and for my mind and body to be healthy ...May peace and love surround you truly and sincerely..... It feels hopeless I know...

 

Hello Pleasebehere,

 

1)  Did the 3 mg of Valium cover the 1 mg of k that you were on?

 

No, the 3 mg of valium most definitely did not cover the 1mg of K.  I had trouble taking any more of the valium however, I did try. It sedated me so much I was randomly falling asleep.  I would even fall asleep before I took my nighttime dose.  My doctor and I were learning together so neither of us knew exactly what to do.

 

2) how long were you on the kpin before switching?

 

I was on K (clonazepam) for over a year before I understood it was making me sick.

 

3) I feel so much better when a few extra hours have gone by and I don't take it

   

 

This question is difficult to answer.  I do believe, after learning much more about this process, that it's best to keep a steady amount of benzo in the body while tapering. Otherwise you will confuse an already confused central nervous system.  Your situation is different because you feel better without the medication so I am not sure what to advise you.

 

It appears that the drug is backfiring on your body, or perhaps, you are feeling the withdrawals while still taking klonopin.  That was the case for me, I was in tolerance for so many many months.  It was the drug in a way, but it was my body being tolerant to the dose that caused my illness.

 

I hope this was a little help.

 

pianogirl 

 

Yes it was thank you piano girl! I think it was great that you were able to still just taper from taking 3 mg of Valium though it didnt cover the whole 1 mg of k... If I understood you correctly

I've heard of this before....people not needing the whole equivalency ....and were under dosed...

 

And yes I'm one of those people that feels much better without the benzo...

Our drug history is very similar

Except I think the reason my problems are so severe was the long gap in between stopping ativan and taking kolonopin ... That was a huge mistake and why I developed such long lasting sxs I still have...that Kpin is not helping

 

Thank you dearly for helping me....

 

Yes, I did it because I knew I had to get off benzos. I had no resources other than the Ashton Manual, I so wish I'd found this forum much earlier. To be very honest, I spent little time on the computer until I jumped off benzos and wondered why I wasn't better. 

 

You are very welcome, I'm happy to help any time.

 

PG 

[[Tw...]]

I have literally done exactly what your doing by sticking to my schedule no matter how bad I felt coming down from 3mgs of K for my first attempt and made it but after quite sometime off having jumped in a really bad state of being the protracted withdrawal had me reinstate. This time around I've figured out that it doesn't work like we think it will. You've been pushing through to follow schedule and holding for a few weeks with no results. It's prob bc you've been tapering super fast from a high dose. I was off a year and nothing changed. Looking back I regret not just holding on longer because now I'm having to finish a much longer taper again but have figured out what not to do. I'm much more stable this second time around from trial and error. I imagine at this point your options would be either stop tapering for a long time and see if your body plays catch up (prob months), stabilize at a higher dose (what I recommend and re evaluate a slower micro taper), or just keep pushing and jump and hold on. Protracted is a bitch with K if you can avoid it though.