CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN TO ME WHAT KINDLING MEANS ? THANKS.

[[ho...]]

Hi folks. I have had 2 failed attempts at tapering this is my 3rd attempt. I hear people talking about kindling but don't really understand what it means. Any advice would be useful.

 

Thanks,

 

hopefulscot.

[Guest [ba...]]

Kindling is a significant increase in your dosage after having reduced (or eliminated) your dose for an extended period of time.  Kindling seems to make it more difficult for some individuals to wean off benzos. 

[[...]]

Bads, I hadn't heard anything about the "significant increase" part before?

 

My impression is that when you hear this term on BB, people are using the Wikipedia definition.  i.e.  Repeated reinstatements and withdrawals can/may lead to a more severe withdrawal syndrome.  Even if it's a low dose reinstatement.

 

"Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative–hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindling_(sedative%E2%80%93hypnotic_withdrawal)

 

That said, I really don't know what to make of it.  In the past I CT'd and reinstated multiple times without blinking an eye.  I think I read that the kindling hypothesis originated with Heather Ashton based on her observations.  But I doubt it's set in stone.  It certainly would be nice to see some firm stats.

[[ho...]]

Thanks guys think I understand it a wee bit more now!   

[[bl...]]

There is no evidence for the way the word kindking is used on this firum I know my views are controversial but I am a biochemist who studies studies for a living plus no UK based Benzo support group buys into it. Some people have really tough first tapers anyway are they ',)kindled and some like myself have an easier second than first taper am I just lucky. Anyway off to work on my third taper reinstatement and fully functional so clearly not kindked.

[Guest [ba...]]

Bads, I hadn't heard anything about the "significant increase" part before?

 

My impression is that when you hear this term on BB, people are using the Wikipedia definition.  i.e.  Repeated reinstatements and withdrawals can/may lead to a more severe withdrawal syndrome.  Even if it's a low dose reinstatement.

 

Just different words.  Similar meaning and intent.  I'd just come in the the hot tub, and was waxing philosophical.

 

A reinstatement is a significant increase.  An updose might be a significant increase.  As for 'hard evidence', I doubt if much exists, but the trend that I've seen in the forum is the repeated reinstatements often results in more difficult taper.  Maybe that observation is just a 'squeaky wheel' effect.  I don't tend to hear as much from people like blaggybum since their tapers are going easier for them.  Or maybe blaggybum's experience is in the minority. 

 

I'd not noticed any 'controversial views' by blaggy before.  I guess I'll have to look more carefully. 

[[bl...]]

My views are not controversial in the real world but I have been accused of being argumentative here. I came here for help initially and received none other than being told I was kindled, paradoxical and was belaying the inevitable. I no longer come here for support as I have assembled a great deal life support team who know what they are talking about but I do try to help othersor explode some is these so-called scientific order for the myths that they are. People who claim or are told they have kindked seem to have certain things in common which would make for more withdrawal symptoms such as cold turkey, tapering too rapidly which can be bad even after shirt term use, reinstating on a too low dose, tapering more than one drug at the same time or not allowing time for stability to occur after rejnstatenent thus leading to one tapering whilst unstable leading to predictable deterioration. I don't see myself as lucky I did not know what I had let myself in for reinstating 3 months after an easy taper but it was like the other times due to unexplained akathesia caused by other drugs. I spent from august to early November in unpredictable hell which though not as bad as cold turkey was fairly close. I patiently waited all this time on one dose until my gut told me I had stabikised. I have been tapering for 2 months and have only had 2 bad days and very mild symptoms. If I had started tapering too early I may have bought into the kindking theory but my support team told me that everyone stabilises. I never believed it until it happened which is common apparently.

[[...]]

My views are not controversial in the real world but I have been accused of being argumentative here. I came here for help initially and received none other than being told I was kindled, paradoxical and was belaying the inevitable. I no longer come here for support as I have assembled a great deal life support team who know what they are talking about but I do try to help othersor explode some is these so-called scientific order for the myths that they are. People who claim or are told they have kindked seem to have certain things in common which would make for more withdrawal symptoms such as cold turkey, tapering too rapidly which can be bad even after shirt term use, reinstating on a too low dose, tapering more than one drug at the same time or not allowing time for stability to occur after rejnstatenent thus leading to one tapering whilst unstable leading to predictable deterioration. I don't see myself as lucky I did not know what I had let myself in for reinstating 3 months after an easy taper but it was like the other times due to unexplained akathesia caused by other drugs. I spent from august to early November in unpredictable hell which though not as bad as cold turkey was fairly close. I patiently waited all this time on one dose until my gut told me I had stabikised. I have been tapering for 2 months and have only had 2 bad days and very mild symptoms. If I had started tapering too early I may have bought into the kindking theory but my support team told me that everyone stabilises. I never believed it until it happened which is common apparently.

 

Hi blaggy, thanks for your posts... I'm glad to read that everyone stabilizes... I've been having a very  rough time with a super slow taper , and it's my first , and I'm a short term user. I'm housebound and often bedridden..... Tried to cut back 1/8th mg and back into severe WDs ..... I guess I have to wait longer to stabilize . That's what my long hold support buddies say and they do it. I haven't seen anyone really have as much difficulty as I'm having so early on in their taper tho, and that scares me..... Any thoughts?

[[bu...]]

Please note that "repeated withdrawal episodes" refers to discontinuation, NOT dose reductions.

 

And as blaggy pointed out, the research and clinical info on "kindling" is pretty weak.