Safe dose of Valium from which to jump without seizure risk?

[[ed...]]

Hello,

 

I'm a hair under 1mg of Valium currently down from 15mg. My taper has been going on now for 14 months. My doctor says she wants me to enter an inpatient detox center for the final 1mg to avoid the risk of seizures.

 

1) Please don't advise me not to go to detox.  I'm not going to detox after everything I've read on these boards, not to mention that I've struggled through the first 14mg on my own and I'm not going to detox a lousy 1mg.

 

2) The doc didn't know what was a low enough dose of Valium from which to jump. Have any of you been advised/told by a doctor where the safe dose is?  I'm NOT going to jump from 1mg or even .75mg, but I have to jump from somewhere. How low is safe?

 

Many thanks,

Ed

[[bu...]]

You will NOT have a seizure from jumping at 1mg V

 

Jumping at 1mg would be  a safe dose to jump from but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be a comfortable dose to jump from. 

 

How has the last several weeks of your taper gone?  If you have been smooth, with only minor sxs, or no sxs, you could probably jump.  But if the last few mgs have been difficult, I would recommend going down farther.  FWIW, I jumped at .5, and have absolutely no lingering sxs.  But I had also been symptom free from 3 mg on down.  At some point, you are no longer dependent, and then jumping should be no problem.  But if your still having sxs, you are still dependenyt

[[ed...]]

You will NOT have a seizure from jumping at 1mg V

 

Jumping at 1mg would be  a safe dose to jump from but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be a comfortable dose to jump from. 

 

How has the last several weeks of your taper gone?  If you have been smooth, with only minor sxs, or no sxs, you could probably jump.  But if the last few mgs have been difficult, I would recommend going down farther.  FWIW, I jumped at .5, and have absolutely no lingering sxs.  But I had also been symptom free from 3 mg on down.  At some point, you are no longer dependent, and then jumping should be no problem.  But if your still having sxs, you are still dependenyt

 

Builder,

 

Unfortunately, I am quite symptomatic at this point. The truth is, there have been very few MOMENTS when I haven't been symptomatic once I dipped below 7 or 8mg.  I wouldn't jump at 1mg or even .75mg for this reason.  I'm not concerned with comfort so much as I am concerned about being safe.  My hope is to get down to at least .25mg before jumping.

 

Where did you come up with the information that a jump from 1mg poses no seizure risk? Just curious as my doc seems to disagree with you, as exemplified by her detox center recommendation.

 

Thanks,

Ed

[[bu...]]

"... rapid withdrawal, especially from high potency benzodiazepines, can precipitate epileptic fits as a rebound reaction. Such an occurrence is extremely rare with slowly eliminated benzodiazepines (e.g. diazepam) or with slow dosage tapering."

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha03.htm#18

 

"Benzodiazepine withdrawal can be severe and can provoke life-threatening withdrawal symptoms, such as seizures,[12] particularly with abrupt or overly rapid dosage reduction from high doses or long time users."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzodiazepine_withdrawal_syndrome

 

"Withdrawal seizures usually occur in patients who have been taking these medications for long periods of time and at high doses."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21815323

 

 

[[Ho...]]

Ed,

 

Builder is right, your seizure risk is extremely slim to none at this point. Don't even worry about it. You know more than your doc at this point. Just keep tapering and you will know the right time to jump.

 

Hope

[[bu...]]

My doctor says she wants me to enter an inpatient detox center for the final 1mg to avoid the risk of seizures.

 

I would make a substantial wager that your doc has a financial interest in that detox center. 

[[ed...]]

Haha, Builder. She actually recommended 5 different unaffiliated centers. My Doc and I have a history that tells me she wants to iron clad, 100% cover her own butt on this. It's a long story.

 

Yes, I've read the things you've posted above, but never saw a specific number assigned to what is a low dose.

 

You and Hope are two of the most knowledgeable people on the board about this type of stuff, so I'll roll with it.

 

Thanks to both of you for the feedback.

 

--Ed

[[Do...]]

I think you might be right that she is just trying to cover all her bases.  You yourself said you have had very few symptom free moments.  Maybe she is just being overly cautious because your side effects have been so severe.

[[ed...]]

I think you might be right that she is just trying to cover all her bases.  You yourself said you have had very few symptom free moments.  Maybe she is just being overly cautious because your side effects have been so severe.

 

You're right on the nose about this. Plus we have a bit of a back story regarding what I perceive as neglect. I sent an email to her today in which I relayed my intentions to go up the ladder with my complaints. Within 3 hours I received a personal phone call from her. Amazing coincidence!

[[Be...]]

I have to say, having had 5 doctors look at me like I have two heads when I've tried to explain WD to that your doctor sounds like an absolute God send!

 

Not getting into the detox debate but any doctor who doesn't say '1mg is a tiny amount, of course you can just stop taking that' is worth their weight in gold.

 

I was told I could jump from 4mg. When I tried to cut from 3.5 to 2.5, I had an incident that  presented with all the signs of a minor seizure / fit. But I am extremely sensitive to any cuts and that was massive, at that level...

[[Sy...]]

My jump was at 1.25 mg

No problem with seizure

Bye

 

[[Be...]]

Im jumping at .5

[[so...]]

Hiya Ed,

 

Not telling you to drag it out, but I often look at Chessplayer's success. He went down by .1 mg increments from 1 mg. It took some time, but he sauntered off feeling very good at the end. To jump with minimal symptoms might be worth taking your sweet time for.

[[ed...]]

Hey SS,

 

I'll take my time with the last 1mg. In all honesty, I don't expect to ever have minimal sx until I finally get off the stuff though.  I just wondered from where was a SAFE spot to jump. Looks like people feel I am already at a safe level and that is comforting to me.

[[so...]]

I hear you Edzo. And I know much you want to be done with this crap drug!

[[ed...]]

I hear you Edzo. And I know much you want to be done with this crap drug!

 

It'll take a while still, SS. But I'll get there. I appreciate your support.

 

Ed