Opiates and healing...?

[[Sh...]]

Hey guys. This is a question about the impacts of opiates when healing from benzo wd.

 

Firstly...can we try to make this a thread where people dont just come in and scream DO NOT TAKE THEM ITS BAD! Without actually knowing any better.

 

I am almost 4 months out since finishing a 9 month taper. Let me start by saying I am 100% not addicted or dependant on opiates. I have taken them once or twice a week since about feb this year. My mental sfxs have been so bad that I literally never would have made it even half way off valium without using opiates for help. Just getting that 1 or 2 day break from sfxs every now and then has allowed me to get this far.

 

I do wonder often whether this delays benzo healing. Ive done as much research as I can and Ive found that they do not work on gaba receptors at all. Mainly dopamine receptors. Ashton also states that opiates should not impair healing. However, you just never know.

 

Has anyone been down this road? Just to reiterate...I am not withdrawing from them so its nothing like going through benzo and opiate wd at the same time like some people are.

 

Mainly I have used OTC codeine low dose. But sometimes use oxy which is stronger. Obviously I would rather not take anything at all. And look forward to this once Im healed. But there have been many a time when Ive been about to throw in the towel and have managed to keep going because of opiates. I am also not endorsing and encouraging them. I just wanted to know if anyone has some info on them.

[[Ho...]]

I don't think think they impair your healing from benzo withdrawal because they don't work on GABA receptors. They are totally different. With that being said, you are playing with fire as they can be addictive, and it seems like from your previous posts that you only get temporary relief and then feel

worse the next day. I guess the question

You have to ask is the temporary relief worth it?  I have been on opiates many times after surgery for post op pain. I get off them as quick as I can due to the fact they plug me up (sorry TMI). I had to take Lortab for 5 days after surgery during my taper and I can't tell it affected me negatively. I have another surgery coming up early November, same drill, will take them for pain to stay

Comfortable then ditch them as soon as I can.

[[Lo...]]

Drugs are bad Mmmkay? Lol , up to you shamo but as mentioned above your playing with fire. Id just stick to paracetamol buddie

[[Sh...]]

Haha Lockie Please re-read what I wrote above Hope. I am not addicted nor do I want to be. I am simply asking about their affect on healing. You are correct I do feel a bit worse the next day. But overall it's probably worth it for the mental break.

 

I have recently read that benzos actually affect dopamine levels as well as GABA...which I never knew. And opiates release dopamine. So maybe that could delay healing...? I'm not sure.

[[Lo...]]

Never said your addict or meant any insult. Just some friendly advise mmmmkay 

[[Fi...]]

It's not about whether you call yourself an addict or insist you're not one, it's all about what opioids do to your brain.  It took me 400 pages in my book to write down my experiences coming off of both benzos and opioids, so I'm not going to write it all out again here.

 

You announce from the beginning you don't want to be told not to take them anyway, so I'm not sure what your purpose is in starting this thread.

[[Sa...]]

Hey guys. This is a question about the impacts of opiates when healing from benzo wd.

 

Firstly...can we try to make this a thread where people dont just come in and scream DO NOT TAKE THEM ITS BAD! Without actually knowing any better.

 

I am almost 4 months out since finishing a 9 month taper. Let me start by saying I am 100% not addicted or dependant on opiates. I have taken them once or twice a week since about feb this year. My mental sfxs have been so bad that I literally never would have made it even half way off valium without using opiates for help. Just getting that 1 or 2 day break from sfxs every now and then has allowed me to get this far.

 

I do wonder often whether this delays benzo healing. Ive done as much research as I can and Ive found that they do not work on gaba receptors at all. Mainly dopamine receptors. Ashton also states that opiates should not impair healing. However, you just never know.

 

Has anyone been down this road? Just to reiterate...I am not withdrawing from them so its nothing like going through benzo and opiate wd at the same time like some people are.

 

Mainly I have used OTC codeine low dose. But sometimes use oxy which is stronger. Obviously I would rather not take anything at all. And look forward to this once Im healed. But there have been many a time when Ive been about to throw in the towel and have managed to keep going because of opiates. I am also not endorsing and encouraging them. I just wanted to know if anyone has some info on them.

 

 

Good Question. 

Here's what i did when i was young.  About 20 years ago after i came down with whatever you want to call it, i don't know if it was benzo withdrawal or a fall when i hit my head or mental illness, i uses tramadol to get by and i did for about 17 years and like you i used a half of a pill once a week maybe and i was good and occasionally a benzo or half of one here or there and i survived BUT that all came to a halt 20 months ago.  Tramadol would no longer be calming and soothing and a picker upper so to speak.  It made me ill with fatigue so i switched to benzos to calm me and manage with daily affairs. 

I don't know what happend but i am 20 months out from a v bad cold turkey and need a lot of reassurance as of this moment.  I did have long windws of complete ability but alas that has taken a turn.

Whatever you decide take into count your age, hormones, CNS,  your disposition in the past.  Your reaction to stimuli and make an informed decision based on your genetics and life circumstances. Sorry for the long winded 2 sense.

Good luck

 

[[Sh...]]

It's not about whether you call yourself an addict or insist you're not one, it's all about what opioids do to your brain.  It took me 400 pages in my book to write down my experiences coming off of both benzos and opioids, so I'm not going to write it all out again here.

 

You announce from the beginning you don't want to be told not to take them anyway, so I'm not sure what your purpose is in starting this thread.

 

I dont care about being labelled an addict. Im not ashamed of anything thats happened after the disaster of benzo wd.

 

Finallyjoining. Incorrect. I dont need people to not tell me to take them. If they affect healing I would definitely stop taking them. I just didnt want people wasting their time warning me not to get addicted and saying pointless comments. Much like this one you just left me. Because it offered nothing. You literally said you arent going to write anything down here for me. And then proceeded to say this thread is pointless. Well done to you buddy! Feel better now?

 

Im trying to find if anyone on this forum has more info and has done any research into it. 

[[Lo...]]

It's not about whether you call yourself an addict or insist you're not one, it's all about what opioids do to your brain.  It took me 400 pages in my book to write down my experiences coming off of both benzos and opioids, so I'm not going to write it all out again here.

 

You announce from the beginning you don't want to be told not to take them anyway, so I'm not sure what your purpose is in starting this thread.

 

*facepalm*

[[Sp...]]

Opiates actually use gaba as a median to stimulate dopamine, i.e they dont directly work on gaba but use gaba like a middle man to stimulate dopamine (look this up if you dont believe me). Also opiates supress adrenal function and supress hormones such as adrenaline and cortisol. This is why there is often quite a lot of anxiety in opiate withdrawal, as there is so much adrenaline and cortisol released, when the opiates leave the body. Opiates dont work on gaba in the same way benzodiazepines do though.

 

If you are finding taking the occasional opiate really gives you relief, then you have to decide whether it is worth it for you. I would be very careful though, i got addicted to dihydrocodeine this way, i.e promising to only do it occassionally.

[[Ch...]]

Shamo3 it sounds like you are a chronic pain sufferer and are very careful about spacing out your meds...

I am guessing you are in Canada where low dose Codeine is over the counter available?  They used to be called Tylenol #1 a long time ago.

Anyway, intermittent doses of pain eds will most likely not hinder your recovery...you have been on it long enough that Dopamine receptors have already rearranged themselves if that was going to happen.

Many many many people do NOT understand the differences between chronic pain and acute pain, like from surgery, where healing begins and ends in a few days.

Of course a life without medication is best, but not always possible.  Keep spacing out the meds the best you can and use distraction, heat, cold, meditation, nutrition, exercise etc to help.....HMMMM, I think I just said the same thing that helps in Benzo recovery, LOL!!!

Best wishes...

[[Sh...]]

It's not about whether you call yourself an addict or insist you're not one, it's all about what opioids do to your brain.  It took me 400 pages in my book to write down my experiences coming off of both benzos and opioids, so I'm not going to write it all out again here.

 

You announce from the beginning you don't want to be told not to take them anyway, so I'm not sure what your purpose is in starting this thread.

 

*facepalm*

 

Haha my thoughts exactly lockie. 

[[Sh...]]

Opiates actually use gaba as a median to stimulate dopamine, i.e they dont directly work on gaba but use gaba like a middle man to stimulate dopamine (look this up if you dont believe me). Also opiates supress adrenal function and supress hormones such as adrenaline and cortisol. This is why there is often quite a lot of anxiety in opiate withdrawal, as there is so much adrenaline and cortisol released, when the opiates leave the body. Opiates dont work on gaba in the same way benzodiazepines do though.

 

If you are finding taking the occasional opiate really gives you relief, then you have to decide whether it is worth it for you. I would be very careful though, i got addicted to dihydrocodeine this way, i.e promising to only do it occassionally.

 

Now this is exactly the kind of help I was looking for. Thankyou bruce i appreciate it. I had read that opiates do infact affect gaba in some way which is why i was worried. That gives me a little clarity.

[[Fi...]]

It's not about whether you call yourself an addict or insist you're not one, it's all about what opioids do to your brain.  It took me 400 pages in my book to write down my experiences coming off of both benzos and opioids, so I'm not going to write it all out again here.

 

You announce from the beginning you don't want to be told not to take them anyway, so I'm not sure what your purpose is in starting this thread.

 

*facepalm*

 

Haha my thoughts exactly lockie. 

 

Sorry, Shamo and Lockie--

 

I actually do have a lot to say on this subject and some hard-won wisdom, I believe, but as I said, I wrote it all in a book for people.  I felt like I was knocking my lights out to tell my story and what I'd learned about both benzo and opioid withdrawal  and put it in a readable way for people.  I wasn't crowdfunding like some people with benzo projects.  I wasn't trying to get money ahead. Because I was already a published writer, I just wrote the book and put it up there for people to read. Yes, right, people have to pay to read it--it wasn't free for me to make it available. 

 

Although books get discussed here all the time, somehow the mods say I'm breaking a rule to let people know about my own book because they say I'm promoting a profit-making venture, so I'm not naming it here.

 

I'm sorry if I sounded annoyed with you when I'm not.  Having to deal with both benzos and opioids is a particular form of hell and I wish you luck in untangling your issues. 

[[so...]]

Hi Shamo, I have no information I can add as to the mechanisms and effects of opiates during benzo w/d. That said, I do very occasionally reach for a Norco or an oxy (left over from previous surgeries) if I notice one of my whopper migraines coming on.

 

But I do it very infrequently - 2 or 3 times a month max, and I don't take a full pill, but nibble off a fraction. Enough to take the edge off the headache.

 

Do what you need to do, but take care.

[[wo...]]

I totally get your question.  Actually we exchanged a few PMs a couple months ago.

 

I wondered the same thing you are right now.  I was using them more than you currently are though.  I am seeing how that they helped with a lot of the anxiety and depression which was the goal of using them.  But i was also using them for a long time.

 

Now I am off of them.  I used suboxone over one month.  I sometimes went 48 to 90 hours without any suboxone as to not let it build in my system. 

 

That leaves me wondering if I had any setbacks because of the rapid taper.  Most people thjink that suboxone stops all withdrawal, but I felt a lot of withdrawal while on a very small dose of suboxone. 

[[Sh...]]

Appreciate the replies. I just found an old thread where people were on a fairly high dose of opiates the whole way through their taper. They had just had surgery or were sick. Something of that nature. Theyd decided it was safer to stay on the opiates until their wd from benzos was over.

[[Fi...]]

So if you've taken a wrong turn that lead to alot of pain and suffering, you would come back, stand there and lead people down another road. Or atleast give them a warning

 

That was certainly my idea, but guess what?  People don't want to hear about it.  That's why I never want to get into arguments with people about what they're taking.  I only ever wanted to share my own story and people can take it for what it's worth or leave it alone.

[[Sh...]]

Oh god please read the opening post offeverything. As ive said. Im not interested in hearing about addiction. Im interested in finding out about the mechanics of opiates and whether it affects healing.

 

You are writing about your story on this thread. Not everyone becomes addicted to everything they take.

[[Fi...]]

Of course you're not interested in hearing about addiction! 

 

Shutting up now.  I can't help you.  Good luck.

[[Lo...]]

Omg FJ i wish you would shut up permanently. He was asking a legit question about cross tolerance with benzos, so far you have dribbled shit about nothing this whole thread and Off everything you have gone from saying occasional use to heroin addiction to leading people astray. WTF ?? Just leave the poor guy alone FFS

 

 

[[Sh...]]

Omg FJ i wish you would shut up permanently. He was asking a legit question about cross tolerance with benzos, so far you have dribbled shit about nothing this whole thread and Off everything you have gone from saying occasional use to heroin addiction to leading people astray. WTF ?? Just leave the poor guy alone FFS

 

Haha its actually laughable. This forum can be a real crapshoot. Because we have no idea the IQ of everyone hiding behind their computers.

 

Finallyjoining...if you dont get the point of this thread, then dont comment on it and take your crap elsewhere. I dont want to hear about a book youre trying to sell us mate.

 

I would have thought that most people with half a brain would get the point of this thread if they read the opening post. Obviously thats not the case.

[[Sp...]]

"Dribbled shit", lol

[[Lo...]]

[[Co...]]

Whatever helps u. All these meds screw up the reward centers of the brain. Benzos seem to target everything while the others only target one or 2 areas?