Crossover to Phenobarbital

[[1w...]]

Greetings fellow buddies:

 

My current tapering doc is out of my insurance network and is very expensive for even a 30-minute consultation.  I searched this site and found another doctor who lives in my area who has helped another buddie successfully taper.  He is in my insurance network, and even though he only sees patients upon doctor referral, I explained my situation and he agreed to see me without a referral.

 

First, this is a win-win because I only have my copay rather than a small reimbursement for a large fee from the other doctor.  This new doc is also an addiction specialist and also knows Ashton Manual protocol.  Since I'm at 3 mgs of Valium since July 10, he said that my options were to taper slower at this point or cross over to phenobarbital.  He said that the sooner I'm off the benzo, the sooner my brain can begin to heal.  My symptoms are terrible but consistent with withdrawal.  My sleep is awful (only 2 hours last night) and my nights are scary because of the bad dreams and cortisol surges.  I haven't slept well for several years now and it has caught up with me to the point that many other medical/health issues have enveloped as a result.

 

I've done some reading about Phenobarbitol here but am not going to spend a lot of time reading more horror stories.  Mine is bad enough.  I just wanted to check in and let you all know what my next step is and praying for the healing to begin.  I'm a bit scared to do another drug but I've got nothing to lose any more than I already have due to the inhumane experience I/we are having.  The doc shared with me that he just did a pheno crossover with an 82-year old who was on 8 mgs of Ativan (for five years)!!!  He said she transitioned and tapered the pheno with no problems whatsoever.  So, with that experience, I'm giving this a shot.  This will be my fourth attempt to get off and stay off benzos.

 

I had no idea what long-term use would do to me and I take responsibility for not researching this before taking it.  I do, however, hold my original doctor somewhat accountable for telling me that they (or any mind-altering drug) were non-addictive.  That is history and now here is where I am.  In my signature, I didn't indicate all the meds I've taken because my memory is very poor; however, I do remember the benzos in particular.  The first one I ever took was Ativan.  This was in addition to many antidepressants.  I did a taper off Effexor and Ativan and relapsed at the tail end of the Ativan taper.

 

Another attempt at antidepressants came with Xanax (the big guns) and antipsychotics.  Finally, relief came.  It lasted about a year and then I crashed again.  Only this time, it was worse than ever.  I tried the Xanax taper with a doctor who didin't know what he was doing and I was a total wreck at the end of that taper with little to no sleep and symptoms getting worse with more and new ones.  After a hospitalization, things spiraled out of control and I was put on another myriad of drugs which I took myself off of because nothing was working anymore.  With this came the worst insomnia (or rather no sleep) yet.  Because of the no sleep, I developed pneumonia and a UTI which was THE worst experience in addition to the withdrawal.  I couldn't take it any longer and begged my doctor for something for sleep.  That is where the Temazepam came in.  I was Rx'd 15 to 30 mg as needed.  I told the doc that 30 was too much, so he just dropped me to 15 mg without any taper.  He didn't have a clue (nor did I).  That's when I decided that I needed to do something different and thus came on this board and found someone who would do a crossover to Valium per Ashton Manual and today at 3 mgs.

 

I'm not looking for advice but support at this juncture as everyone will have advice on their experience.  I'm taking a risk in crossing over without a complete taper but really things can't get any worse for me right now.  The big issue facing me and my husband is prostate cancer.  We find out today the results of his biopsy.  I'm very stressed about this and a myriad of other things but I can't control everything in my world, so I'm giving all of this over to my Higher Power and asking for strength and courage to face what's ahead.  I will continue to post as I can and ask for your prayers and support.  I'm thinking about all of you and praying for the healing that we all crave and believe we will have someday.  More later . . .

[[be...]]

Seems you've made up your mind so I'd just try to stay positive about it. Wishing you the best. B

[[1w...]]

Thank you for your support!

[[Ju...]]

I wish you all the best, it certainly sounds like you have been through a lot. Just to clarify, transitioning to phenobarbitol isnt a "crossover" per se- its a non benzo drug that is used to prevent seizures during abrupt benzo cessation. Since you already know what it feels like to stop a benzo rapidly, you are probably as prepared as possible for what is to come. Since this doctor was supportive of continuing the taper, is there any reason not to continue at 1mg/week or something similarly rapid? I know how horrible the insomnia can be. 

Take care,

JKS

[[1w...]]

JKS:  His recommendation, since I'm not benefiting from the Valium is, that if I jump now, I'll likely not experience much difference in how I feel.  I guess I'll find out.  I didn't take my 1 mg this morning because I picked up the new Rx this afternoon.  I don't feel a bit different than if I had taken it.  That tells me something.  I am very panicky, but I'm doing everything within my power to keep that at bay.  I see him again in a week so I'll know more as the days progress.  I'll update my signature to indicate that it's a change to Phenobarbital rather than a crossover.  I also read on the Rx instructions that the medication shouldn't be taken for more than two weeks.  I didn't ask him how long he recommends being on this.  Since I see him in a week, I'll ask.  I'll try to post as I am mentally up to it.

[[Ju...]]

It sounds like you are at home during this process? Do you have someone to keep you company?

Thinking of you, fingers crossed!

JKS

[[1w...]]

JKS:  Yes and No . . . My husband is home after work and I'm working VERY part-time and we plan to sell our house and move to the country within a year.  One thing I've read is that you shouldn't drive if you are on Pheno . . . well, I also know and read that you shouldn't drive using a benzo either.  So, with that said, I have DP/DR and agorophobia very bad so I go out as long as I absolutely have to and then I come back home.  I'm worse out but still pretty bad at home.  I'm in the home care business and have a couple of clients that I work with but that is very difficult because I have lost a lot of physical strength from hanging out at home and laying around the house, not to mention that I have put on tons of weight.  I've not consistently exercised so getting into that habit would be very good for me.  Since I'm not able to experience the endorphin effect of any of the things I used to do, so I'm not motivated to do anything.  My husband keeps telling me that I should just do it anyway and over the long haul, my brain will start kicking back into that experience.  I feel like an empty shell and so there's no motivation for anything.  Absolutely no quality of life right now.  It's pretty bad, but I keep plugging along and try to have hope!  Thanks for the concern! 

[Guest [Ka...]]

I have taken phenobarbital for 15 years for seizures related to a brain injury from a car accident. I went off with no problems nor did this drug cause me any problems while taking it. This was before my benzo years, I started benzos due to a loss of a child and I started having panic attacks. So there is no connections with the phenobarbital to the panic attacks or benzos.

 

 

 

 

[[be...]]

I did a detox from 8 milligrams of Ativan. Phenobarbital was used as an anti-seizure medicine. JKS is correct it is not a benzodiazepine. it's an old-school barbituate so it is not a substitute benzodiazepine. However it may help a bit with your withdrawal symptoms from Valium.  I personally would try to get off the phenobarbital as soon as I could. I know when I was detoxed it's used for 10 days with the taper from it beginning on day two of it being started. just like benzodiazepines highly addictive and can be just as difficult to withdraw from.

[[mr...]]

PopcornLady11 just finished a 7 month taper off phenobarbitol from 8mg Ativan cold turkey.

You might want to talk to her.

http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=11903