Cold Turkey Clonazepam, Reinstated, Can't Stabilize

[[Mi...]]

So I've been on clonazepam 15 years, most of that at 1mg. Never higher. I was also on effexor, or generic name venlafaxine. after a year of tapering off venlafaxine I'm free of it, and seemingly no side effects. During that time my doctor, actually a nurse practitioner, wanted me to get off of clonazepam.  So last fall I dropped from 1mg to 0.5 mg. I don't remember any specific withdrawal but I do remember I had a rough time in the fall.  She had said multiple times that I could go off the clonazepam 0.5mg anytime and probably not feel anything.  So a month after my last dose of venlafaxine I was feeling no more withdrawal.  I felt great. None of the side effects from that drug and I really felt like I'd accomplished something.  I was connecting with old friends and thinking about all the things I wanted to do with my summer.  Even getting back to work? I haven't had a steady job in at least 10 years.  So on the (natural) high of such an accomplishment, and feeling so good I thought I would quickly deal with the small matter of 0.5 mg of clonazepam.  I steadily felt worse until 2 weeks later, in desperation I went back on, at first 0.25mg, a few days later 0.5mg, a few days more to 0.75mg.  That's been about 3 weeks ago and my world is a living nightmare.  I thought I would stabilize by now.  That was my plan, go back on, stabilize, then do a slow easy taper that some postings led me to believe would be barely inconvenient in terms of withdrawal symptoms.  So, a few questions I'm asking myself and would love any input on.  Will I ever stabilize?  How long?  This is the most desperate thing, as in reality I haven't just been in withdrawal for 5 weeks, but almost a year if you factor in the previous medication.  When you reinstate, what dose should you use?  At this point I would take any amount to feel close to normal.  Then worry about the taper later.  Is it a good thing that I'm only on 0.5 to 1mg? is that something I can feel good about if I ever do get to  taper?

 

I'm really upset with my doctor. How could she not know?  We walked down to the pharmacist and she immediately knew that was not how to handle this.  I know she's not mean or evil, just ignorant on this one (important) subject.  She's willing to work with me and let me decide for myself how I want to handle this.  What's so upsetting, and I can't get out of my head, is that if she had just said anything about it being difficult I would have done research before I did anything and would be in the first stage of a nice slow taper. I can't stop thinking about what could have been.  So, should I try to find another Dr? What are the odds I'll do any better? If I could just stabilize I wouldn't care, I'd take a few weeks of stability to rest and start a super slow taper.

 

Instead of stabilizing I seem to be getting worse.  The last 3 or 4 days I've barely been out of bed.  This is a level of depression I haven't been in for years.  At the same time I'm also anxious and agitated. Frightened of ridiculous things like laying down and what will I think of, or scared of that video game I used to play or that TV show I used to watch. I can barely eat, diarrhea all the time.  Immodium not helping. I'm so weak I can barely walk, you know, the usual. Also I'm crying a lot, which is unlike me, and only seems to happen when I don't sleep well. I thought I was sleeping well.

 

I'm taking L theanine, it helps tremendously but I'm worried it interferes with healing or stabilizing or something. Also otc GABA tablets.  They both help and I don't know what I would do without them, but they're very sedating and being like that all the time can't be good.

 

 

Any thoughts are appreciated, but especially info about stabilizing after a ct and reinstatement, and how much should I take for reinstatement? How long to stabilize? My doc will go along with anything reasonable.

 

Thanks, Buddies

 

Edit: Text against guideline rules removed

 

[[dd...]]

I am so SO sorry this has happened to you. I understand the anger and frustration, fear and not having a clue what to do. I have experienced all that in the last 3 months...and have made one mistake after another because of lack of educated guidance.

 

First off-I am NOT a crier-and now I do it all the time. I have bouts of deep regret over everything I have ever done or said. I have also had times where I would rather be dead than have to endure this withdrawal and then I have fear I won't be able to control not doing it even though I love life and my kids and grandkids, etc. Very frightening.

 

What I feel I have learned is hat this drug lies. It makes us think things that aren't true. It clouds our reasoning and decision making skills. I doubt everything I do now where before I was confident and a person that "got things done".

 

I have tried holding for months and just can't get stable so I am going to updose enough to get to where I feel good and then stay there for a couple weeks and let the drug build up in my system. Then I am going to start a super slow taper. This is the best advice I have gotten to date:

 

Your question comes from a "withdrawal" mindset.  This is not drug withdrawal...not really.  It is managing neuron function.  It is keeping your neurons working properly at all times.  When you think about it this way you will realize that pre-determined cut amounts make no sense.  Your body will tell you how much is okay.  Likewise, the speed of the taper is whatever your body says it is.  Some lightly dependent fast healers can go over 30% a month while a heavily dependent slow healer may only be able to manage 5%.  You need to find your rate; don't try to impose it.  The way to find it is to begin low and test a few weeks.  Then move up a little and retest.  And so on until you find a cut that increases symptoms.  That will be your limit.

[[be...]]

i am sorry you are feeling so badly. Reinstating comes with some risks.  One of them is that sometimes it becomes impossible to stabilize, as tolerance is often reached quickly. You may not stabilize, even if you to continue to up your dose.  Another is the risk of "kindling". "Kindling is when each subsequent withdrawal is worse than the previous one, even with a super slow taper. I can assure you that tapering can be extremely difficult, especially when tolerance is reached. I personally do not know of any member here having a easy time of tapering.  Is it a good thing you are only on 1 mg? It is a pretty significant dose and equal to 20 mg of Valium, and you are unable to stabilize on that dose. You got yourself in a tough spot.

[[Ch...]]

This doesn't happen to everyone, but it happens enough that doctors should be getting a clue these days.  Water under the bridge now, but it's good she's given you the option to reinstate and taper again when you're ready.

 

As far as what dose will be enough to give you some relief, it can only be trial and error to figure that out.  You may find that 1mg gives you enough relief, it could be up a little higher.  It takes about 2 weeks for Klonopin to completely take effect, so that needs to be taken into consideration when increasing the dose to reach stability.

 

As far as GABA supplements, they're not thought to be of much value as the GABA receptors have been affected, not the GABA they utilize to calm the body.  But if it's helping you, I'd stick with it for now.

 

I, too, am sorry this has happened to you. 

[[Re...]]

I too have been on Kolonopin for 15 to 20 years. Same mgs as you.  I started taper 8 weeks ago. My Dr prescribed librum as needed, he was adamant about not taking it if not needed. I am also taking Gaba but prescription.  How did you find it OTC and what brand does it sell by?  My personal experience is I don't think I could have stuck to the Kolonopin Taper without the gabapentin.  Before taking it I had horrible tremors. Muscle spasm, head zaps, uncontrollable shaking. The gabapentin stopped all of that. I too was prescribed Effector 15 years ago, 300 mgs and the withdrawl was hell !  Do you trust this Dr?  What your feeling is normal. Kolonopin is a bitch to come off of and I'm worried about having withdrawal from librium.  I have a horrible work history,  Panic has wrecked any chance of financial stability. Robbed me of my memory,  I lost a huge chunk of my life to this drug.  Good luck  stay here and post any updates. 

[[Mi...]]

Thank you all for your kind words.

 

Offline Reset25  What I'm taking is not gabapentin but GABA, I buy it at the Vitamin Shoppe, you can find it online.  It and the L-Theanine have a strong sedative effect on me but today I had a sort of panic attack even while taking it, so it doesn't solve the problem just helps me manage.  I trust the doc as in that I can tell she cares, I've had docs that don't seem to, but I don't trust her knowledge of benzos.

 

Challis99  At this point I don't care how long the taper lasts.  What I have to do is stabilize.  So I might have to go up higher in dose for that?

 

[[Je...]]

Be careful. I tapered too fast and reinstated and kept raising the dose to feel okay and I just got worse. I was getting sicker the higher I went. I just had to wait it out.

 

I know how you feel. I felt the same way. You just have to take one day at a time.

[[lo...]]

give yourself a bit more time. it does take time. your brain probably went into a shock for the c/t. you are re-instated now, I would go back to the last dose you felt ok. it might take 2-3 weeks to get normal. i was in a similar situation, were i dropped to quick, and re-instating took 2 weeks to feel normal. i'm certain you will adjust., then start a slow, 5-10% taper.

like somebody else mentioned, gabapentin does help with a lot of symptoms, it is like a warm blanket over your brain. talk to your doc. i am taking 300mg 3x a day, I would ask for 4x600mg's a day so you can adjust accordingly.

[[he...]]

I'm trying to figure out the same.

I didn't c/t but went from 1mg K to .75mg of K in 7 wks thinking this was reasonable and per Ashton manual.

Things were going quite well for the most part until that 7th week and it's been very difficult since despite holding at .75mg for just over 3 wks now.

It's profoundly miserable- in bed, total mental anguish, headaches and more- non- functional.

I'm dealing w/ Lyme and just can't add this on top so seriously considering go back to 1mg but concerned for all the obvious reasons.

I too just want to stabilize  but if that's not guaranteed going back up, what to do???

I've since learned that 10% a month is about right. So frustrating to be in this position despite believing you're doing everything right.

So sorry you're in a similiar boat. Keep us posted- if you do go up, let us know if you stabilized and I will do the same if end up going back to 1mg. I may give .75mg  another few weeks to see if things improve.

 

[[Mi...]]

I saw the experts at the clinic, no sarcasm intended, and was very disappointed.  I talked to a nurse and a pharmacist, both of whom thought it was no big deal moving from 0.5 mg clonazepam to zero.  I guess this really is a dirty little secret about benzos.  They spoke with my nurse practitioner and a psychiatrist, who were all in agreement.  They suggested my problems were withdrawal from venlafaxine.  without going into it too much, I had withdrawal from venlafaxine every time I dropped dosage, several times over the last year. The feelings are totally different.  The good news is I might be stabilizing a little.  I'd been so low that I've stayed in bed for the last week, sleeping a lot but not good sleep, and barely eating.  I'm making efforts to eat and get out of bed, it's hard but seems to be helping. 

 

So I'm not getting a new doctor, as they all think the same thing.  The good news is that my doc/nurse practitioner is OK with whatever taper schedule I want. It will be a snails pace, I only hope that helps.  But first, I MUST stabilize.  I only think I'm getting there.  We'll see.  I don't plan to go higher than the 0.75 I'm on now.

 

I'm scared thinking about a lot of things, like books I've read or movies/TV shows I've seen or video games I've played. Mostly with scary or violent content.  I don't mean horror type entertainment, more like Star Wars level violence. Anyone else?

 

I'll see about gabapentin depending on how things go.  Will I have complications or withdrawal with that?

 

So far I haven't given into temptations to drink alcohol, I used to be an addict, but got past that and haven't drank in almost 5 years.  So I can remind myself that while I haven't been through this exact thing before I have gotten over things before.

 

I have one more ace in the hole, I'm seeing a Homeopath who used to be a physicians assistant. He predicted when I first saw him years ago I would have more trouble with the benzo.  To those who don't know, Homeopathy is a kind of alternative medicine, to many docs it's equivalent to voodoo, but it's already shown more promise than any drug I've ever been on.  So we'll see. 

 

To whoever said they were on effector or effexxor, I could never spell it, if you're still on it try high doses of fish oil, it helped me.

 

I wish I had more to offer those who said they are also having trouble, but I can say right this minute I'm OK. I know I'll have tough times, even miserable times in the next 24 hours, but I guess it's true it's not unbearable forever.  You and I are worth the effort to hang on until we experience even a moment of relief.

 

There are so many encouraging things said I can't thank all of you the way you deserve, but please know how much your support has meant to me so far.  Together, before we know it, we'll all be one of those success stories.

[[Tr...]]

Any updates?