GABA never comes back?

[[Qu...]]

I'm reading a book on adrenal fatigue, by Tricia Pingell, and she states that in people who use benzos for a long time, their GABA levels never rebound. "Even years after using these medications, their bodies no longer make GABA."

 

Is this true ?

 

 

[Guest [Or...]]

I don't think so. Otherwise people who were on it for years and years wouldn't heal. But, they do. :0

[[La...]]

Does the author back that up with any solid information? Any actual research? How is it proven?

[[Te...]]

Yes, I'm wondering the same thing. Anyone can say anything, but what info does that person have to back it up?

[[pr...]]

Sometimes I do wonder ... If this "withdrawal" process is truly 2-5 years, can we really say that we are going through withdrawal? It seems strange that most other drugs take maximum a year (ADs, heroin, etc).  By definition, withdrawal cannot go on for THAT long but it does.  So that makes me think that there is definitely some semi-permanent damage. I don't have the background to pinpoint the specific damage but the author's thesis seems consistent with the length of recovery relative to other drugs.  I would like to understand her scientific basis for the argument.

[[Bi...]]

Brain chemistry is forever shifting.    Long healing does not mean forever.

[[La...]]

If the issue is specifically GABA levels, then there needs to be some science to back it up. In order to make any such claims, levels would have to be test before and then after withdrawal for at many intervals -- and for years to come. On the other hand, benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms can go on for a long time in some people, and I've posted articles in the News section on this forum that address those issues. Have a look!

[[ba...]]

Sometimes I do wonder ... If this "withdrawal" process is truly 2-5 years, can we really say that we are going through withdrawal? It seems strange that most other drugs take maximum a year (ADs, heroin, etc).  By definition, withdrawal cannot go on for THAT long but it does.  So that makes me think that there is definitely some semi-permanent damage. I don't have the background to pinpoint the specific damage but the author's thesis seems consistent with the length of recovery relative to other drugs.  I would like to understand her scientific basis for the argument.

 

This is so spot on! 

 

The comforting mantra of "it's only temporary" rings false when most long term users exhibit symptoms far past ordinary drug cessation.  One cannot equate a 3 week opiate withdrawal with a 3-5 year, intensely painful, life altering event.

 

 

 

[[bo...]]

It's my understanding that benzo wd is due to malfunctioning receptors not low transmitter levels. In fact ive read posts on here from people who had their gaba levels tested and they were high not low. If you just have low gaba chemical levels couldn't you just take gaba and fix it? Am I offbase here?

 

That doesn't mean that wd cannot last a very long time or even be permanent. That I dont know. I just dont thibk it is because of the production of the chemical gaba.

[[La...]]

I think the claim is made by someone with something to sell. I just Googled Tricia Pingell, and she's a for-profit naturopath. If you're reading something and you're questioning it, you should look for other SOLID sources of information before believing it. That goes with anything. With all of the health claims made these days, we need to be very hard-headed about what we're willing to believe. Be skeptical. Think critically.

[[Fi...]]

Babyrex--I don't understand why you and others on the board want to keep minimizing opioid withdrawal and referring to it so dismissively.  The people who talk about it only taking three weeks are not people who are staying off of all drugs and reporting how long it takes to get past all the waves and windows that go with opioid withdrawal. If it were that easy to get off of opioids, the US would not be ensnared in an opioid epidemic, with rising rates of deaths and overdoses, particularly among middle-aged women.  People would not be turning to heroin when their doctor prescribed meds run out.  Deaths from opioids increased FIVE TIMES among middle-aged women between 2002 and 2012 or thereabouts. 

[[lo...]]

I am convinced I will make a full recovery. Getting very close.

 

I took nitrazepam for 40 years.

 

LF 

[[Bi...]]

Babyrex--I don't understand why you and others on the board want to keep minimizing opioid withdrawal and referring to it so dismissively.  The people who talk about it only taking three weeks are not people who are staying off of all drugs and reporting how long it takes to get past all the waves and windows that go with opioid withdrawal. If it were that easy to get off of opioids, the US would not be ensnared in an opioid epidemic, with rising rates of deaths and overdoses, particularly among middle-aged women.  People would not be turning to heroin when their doctor prescribed meds run out.  Deaths from opioids increased FIVE TIMES among middle-aged women between 2002 and 2012 or thereabouts.

 

I have withdrawn from high levels of opioid's 5 times in my life.  I'd rather do 50 opioid withdrawals before one more benzo withdrawal.  Opoid's are EASY for me!  Take clonidine for 3 weeks done and over not 30 months of hell like this benzo crap.

[[bo...]]

One thing this wd has taught me is the nervous system is complicated and every one is different. Im different myself even from the last time I did this which was nothing. So if somrone tells me they suffered horribly withdrawing from anything I believe them now.

[Guest [jc...]]

Seems like opioid addiction is being  confused with opioid withdrawal. 

[[ba...]]

Babyrex--I don't understand why you and others on the board want to keep minimizing opioid withdrawal and referring to it so dismissively.  The people who talk about it only taking three weeks are not people who are staying off of all drugs and reporting how long it takes to get past all the waves and windows that go with opioid withdrawal. If it were that easy to get off of opioids, the US would not be ensnared in an opioid epidemic, with rising rates of deaths and overdoses, particularly among middle-aged women.  People would not be turning to heroin when their doctor prescribed meds run out.  Deaths from opioids increased FIVE TIMES among middle-aged women between 2002 and 2012 or thereabouts.

 

FinallyJoining, 

 

How long does it take for people to understand that a two to three month cessation from taking a particular drug ceases to be about addictions and cravings and more about the long lasting physical damage?  Because for me,  I was never "hooked" on benzos.  And I do understand that addicts and junkies have a difficult time differentiating between addiction and dependency. 

 

We just have opposing points of view. 

 

[[Fi...]]

Babyrex--I don't think this is a matter of opposing viewpoints.  I think you don't understand opioid withdrawal.  It IS the same as benzo withdrawal in the sense that my brain stopped making its own dopamine and has to heal and be able to make it again.  Having no dopamine going on is hell.  To the extent that this damage can take a terribly long time to heal (I'm two years "clean" on Jan 3rd) it seems to  me very much like benzos.  Since I had to  withdraw from both I have a sense of which symptoms are from which and I really feel that it's the opioid symptoms that are still plaguing me now.  I'm actually grateful that I did have so much trouble with opioid withdrawal because if it had been as easy as you seem to think it is, I never would have been casting around, eight months out, looking for what else might be going wrong with me and who knows how long I'd have stayed on the Xanax.  I look forward to being completely healed from both and coming out from this better and healthier than before. 

 

You seem so keen to distance yourself from "addicts and junkies."  While I came to my addiction entirely by prescription and never took one dose more or sooner than directed by my clueless surgeon, I have come through this with much greater empathy for anyone who is addicted to anything and is struggling to get off.  I don't think I'm better than them.  My feeling is that if it's been this tough for me to go through this with a good support system intact, how on earth can people expect drug addicts with horrible lives to resist the pull of that fix?  I feel that withdrawal from opioids was so difficult and feels so terrible, it's a miracle to me anybody ever manages to get clean, and I would want to offer them my full emotional support and congratulations if they somehow manage it.  I would not want to be at all dismissive about what they've been through. 

[[ba...]]

Babyrex--I don't think this is a matter of opposing viewpoints.  I think you don't understand opioid withdrawal.  It IS the same as benzo withdrawal in the sense that my brain stopped making its own dopamine and has to heal and be able to make it again.  Having no dopamine going on is hell.  To the extent that this damage can take a terribly long time to heal (I'm two years "clean" on Jan 3rd) it seems to  me very much like benzos.  Since I had to  withdraw from both I have a sense of which symptoms are from which and I really feel that it's the opioid symptoms that are still plaguing me now.  I'm actually grateful that I did have so much trouble with opioid withdrawal because if it had been as easy as you seem to think it is, I never would have been casting around, eight months out, looking for what else might be going wrong with me and who knows how long I'd have stayed on the Xanax.  I look forward to being completely healed from both and coming out from this better and healthier than before. 

 

You seem so keen to distance yourself from "addicts and junkies."  While I came to my addiction entirely by prescription and never took one dose more or sooner than directed by my clueless surgeon, I have come through this with much greater empathy for anyone who is addicted to anything and is struggling to get off.  I don't think I'm better than them.  My feeling is that if it's been this tough for me to go through this with a good support system intact, how on earth can people expect drug addicts with horrible lives to resist the pull of that fix?  I feel that withdrawal from opioids was so difficult and feels so terrible, it's a miracle to me anybody ever manages to get clean, and I would want to offer them my full emotional support and congratulations if they somehow manage it.  I would not want to be at all dismissive about what they've been through. 

 

What do you not understand? 

 

What pull and what fix?  What miracle to get "clean"?  What does that even mean?

 

[[Fi...]]

I mean that I think any addiction is tough to break and I respect anyone who's making the effort.  I guess you could equate the pull and fix  of longing to take an Oxy tab to make the withdrawal sickness go away to the pull that's expressed on this board by people struggling to believe that they can get better only by staying off the drug.  What do you think it means when people ask about reinstating and beg for reassurance they shouldn't?  Isn't that about deciding whether to "use" again?

 

For me, the distinction between being addicted and being physically dependent is just something the drug reps tell the doctors to ease their minds about what they're actually doing  to people--addicting them.  What comfort was it to me when my docs said I wasn't addicted, I was only physically dependent?  My body and brain, trust me, do not know the difference, and I feel just as awful in withdrawal as somebody who's been labelled a junkie.  Funny that my docs seemed to think I would be comforted at not having to accept the label.  Who cares what anybody's calling it?  Withdrawal is withdrawal.

 

It sounds like you have had a horrible time and I don't blame you for being angry.  I think most of us are--except maybe Lookingforward, who sounds like some kind of a saint!--But nursing anger only keeps your own brain fired up and gets in the way of your healing.  I have really benefitted from Belleruth Naparstek's CD, a meditation on Anger and Forgiveness.  You might too.  Sounds like you've been at this healing business a long time now and are probably due for a break.  Hope you catch one soon!

[[lo...]]

Me, a saint, don't think so. 

 

Not suffering as much as many folk on this forum.

 

Just very fortunate. 

 

LF 

[[Fi...]]

Hey LF--I'm glad you saw that!  I'm sure that being able to focus on the ways in which we ARE fortunate helps our brains do its job!  Of course I'm much better at this on days when it seems like I'm actually getting well than during the times where it seems so clear I'm not!

[[ba...]]

I mean that I think any addiction is tough to break and I respect anyone who's making the effort.  I guess you could equate the pull and fix  of longing to take an Oxy tab to make the withdrawal sickness go away to the pull that's expressed on this board by people struggling to believe that they can get better only by staying off the drug.  What do you think it means when people ask about reinstating and beg for reassurance they shouldn't?  Isn't that about deciding whether to "use" again?

 

For me, the distinction between being addicted and being physically dependent is just something the drug reps tell the doctors to ease their minds about what they're actually doing  to people--addicting them.  What comfort was it to me when my docs said I wasn't addicted, I was only physically dependent?  My body and brain, trust me, do not know the difference, and I feel just as awful in withdrawal as somebody who's been labelled a junkie.  Funny that my docs seemed to think I would be comforted at not having to accept the label.  Who cares what anybody's calling it?  Withdrawal is withdrawal.

 

It sounds like you have had a horrible time and I don't blame you for being angry.  I think most of us are--except maybe Lookingforward, who sounds like some kind of a saint!--But nursing anger only keeps your own brain fired up and gets in the way of your healing.  I have really benefitted from Belleruth Naparstek's CD, a meditation on Anger and Forgiveness.  You might too.  Sounds like you've been at this healing business a long time now and are probably due for a break.  Hope you catch one soon!

 

I just read around to this thread again and I realized your signature says a lot.  You have had a tough time getting off the opiates for whatever reason. 

 

You were on such a tiny dose of Xanax, I'm surprised you have had any symptoms at all.  Not exactly the stereotypical "junkie".  But if you don't mind being labeled a "junkie", who am I to say?  Just don't lump the rest of us in....

 

Here is my original post:

 

Sometimes I do wonder ... If this "withdrawal" process is truly 2-5 years, can we really say that we are going through withdrawal? It seems strange that most other drugs take maximum a year (ADs, heroin, etc).  By definition, withdrawal cannot go on for THAT long but it does.  So that makes me think that there is definitely some semi-permanent damage. I don't have the background to pinpoint the specific damage but the author's thesis seems consistent with the length of recovery relative to other drugs.  I would like to understand her scientific basis for the argument.

 

This is so spot on! 

 

The comforting mantra of "it's only temporary" rings false when most long term users exhibit symptoms far past ordinary drug cessation.  One cannot equate a 3 week opiate withdrawal with a 3-5 year, intensely painful, life altering event.

 

Now you can take this back to your one person circle jerk and over analyze it.  I'm done.

 

[[lo...]]

Hi FJ

 

I have so many reasons to be thanful. I have been ill for 40 years (including withdrawal). I can honestly say that I feel as if I have been let out of prison, a mental prison. It really is not surprising that I am full of hope and optimism for the future.  I have no desire to dwell on the past or on what might have been. I have had enough unhappiness to last a lifetime.  I am going to make the most of every day that I have left. I vowed long ago that I would never become bitter as that is self destructive and drives people away. I have been given my emotions back so I want to feel the good ones. Have had enough of the bad ones!!  :'(

 

I feel really blessed as my wildest dreams are coming true. The last time I felt well was as a schoolgirl.

 

I like your compassion and understanding. We all need that.

 

Hugs

 

LF 

[[Fi...]]

Thanks so much, Lookingforward.  Your kindness means a lot to me.  You're an inspiration to me and I'm looking forward to reading about your continual improvement.  Hey, I'm gonna try to think and act like YOU today!

[[lo...]]

Wow, I am blushing here in my bed!! 

 

Hugs

 

LF