Take a AD or wait it out ?

[[ta...]]

Weeks of horrific anxiety has left me so depressed somedays I barely speak. All I can see if my own death and it breaks my heart as I genuinely don't want to go, I have a great family beautiful daughter, loving partner and a semi decent job ( not been to work for 4 months) I just don't see a way out of this hole I'm in, Iv had bits of depression in the past but all mild. This is something else and I really don't know what to do, Iv tried ssri that I have taken in the past but they all ramp my anxiety up to unbearable, Iv been prescribed mirtrazapine but I'm getting a bad vibe about that one. Do u think if I wait this out it will get better when I'm totally of diaz I'm hoping to be off it by end of feb. Thanks 

[[ME...]]

Hi Tatty, you said that you are so depressed some days.

 

It sounds that your depression comes and go. 

 

I am presently in a bad situation, and I fear that my brain is degenerating into major depression.

 

I think if you don't feel that you are not in danger of sliding into major depression, avoiding one more drug might be a good decision.  If it is constant depression that varies everyday, maybe one day it will be better.

 

I hope you will be better soon. 

 

I am spending more time in BB looking for help from other members.

 

 

[[ta...]]

Hi friend

 

It does lift a little some days but is unbearable others, itis unlike any depression I have had before.. Are you taking and anti D ? Does this feel similar to depression you have experienced before ? For me it's the extreme anxiety that I feel is the root cause of the depression and I'm hoping If that lifts so will my depression. Hope you are coping ok today

[[ME...]]

Hi friend

 

It does lift a little some days but is unbearable others, itis unlike any depression I have had before.. Are you taking and anti D ? Does this feel similar to depression you have experienced before ? For me it's the extreme anxiety that I feel is the root cause of the depression and I'm hoping If that lifts so will my depression. Hope you are coping ok today

 

i am already 8 hours online in BB.  i AM away from my family.

 

I am taking Amitriptyline for depression.  My depression is fueled by problems, unpromising future, dose reduction,.....

 

I am not thinking about trying another AD.  Most AD has side effects that makes us feel bad (specially in the morning).

 

I pm River Wolf, I am reading his blog.

 

I hope you are improving.  Little or slow improvement counts.  Spend more time with your child.....it will help.

[[ta...]]

Yes I agree with side effects.. Yes I'm trying, today we are making Christmas cookies or I'm sat on the kitchen floor giving directions and encouragement, i still love to see her smile.

[[jo...]]

I just put out a post on benzos and neurochemicals. Please read it and let me know what You think. I have been on clonzepam for 9 weeks now considered a low dose 0.25mg " which I do not call low ".  Been tapering down for over 2 weeks yet still have not reached 0.125mgs.

 

My problem is I already have major depression and I should NOT have been prescribed clonazepam for sleep or anything else due to the depression. I knew almost nothing about benzos when I started taking this drug. I noticed that each and every day My depression symptoms were slowly getting worse with each passing day.

 

I joined benzo buddies and also jumped on the internet and started doing research. Their are some opposing medical views regarding benzos and depression however several of them written by doctors claim that the benzos prevent the other neurochemical from binding to their receptors and in My case already having depression made My symptoms 100% worse.

 

One article went on to say that benzos especially clonazepam of k if You will negates any positive effects that an Anti depressant will have as it tries to raise the levels of neurochemicals in the brain. So its basically saying that they are useless if taken with a benzo. Im just one of You reporting what I read however Im in a jam because each day My depression symptoms are getting worse emotionally and physically. Unbearable at times.

 

Each that the dose gets smaller I hope and pray that the depressive symptoms will start to decrease however so far that has not been the case. I know everyone is different however I even read post on BB that people who did not have depression reported feelings of depression while on benzos or when tapering off. Put the pieces of the puzzle together and it all seems to verify this possible theory. 

 

I dont know what to do and would like to know if anyone has felt any relief from their depression while on an AD during tapering also which AD worked for them. They want me to take rememron however that is an SNRI and it hits the norepineprine which can cause anxiety. Who knows what is really going on just like everyone else trying to find a happy medium.

[[hu...]]

Hi tatty and johnny apple,

 

There are a few BBs who got help for depression from remeron and some from SSRI's like lexapro. It might be safe to take remeron as a lot of people did not find it much difficult to taper, they did not suffer bad w/d symptoms after tapering it for a few weeks. I hope you will get more responses from the buddies who actually took it.

 

 

[Guest [Ti...]]

curcumin.. natural and safe also helps the brain do a search for it on here

[[jo...]]

Hello Hurtbrain the question is do antidepressants work to relieve depression for people on clonazepam and other benzos. As I mentioned on one of My post I read that clonazepam binds to more than GABA receptors and if that is true it will inhibit other neurochemicals even if on an AD med ?.  That is my problem right now, the clonezepam is killing My depression and I cant just jump off this poison so Im stuck between a rock and a hard place especially if their is no way to raise My serotonin level and relieve some of these depressive symptoms  that are really bad.

[[hu...]]

I think ADs will help even if you are on a benzo like clonazepam.  Some people were on both ADs and benzos, then they decided to taper the benzo because of tolerance or some other reason, after they feel healed from that, they taper off the AD. Even Ashton manual recommends to continue the AD during benzo taper, if you are already on an AD.

 

I'm not sure to what extent the clonazepam disturbs the serotonin in the brain, but yes I and many others had depression while on clonazepam, but it could feel worse to quit the AD and taper the benzo at the same time.

 

Generally if you are already on an AD during taper, it helps to protect the brain from too much chemical imbalance after quitting the benzo.

 

 

[[ta...]]

Brain chemistry definetley changes in withdrawl, Iv taken venlaflaxine and prozac in the past with little problems except a little jitteriness. But I have found it impossible so far to get on to any ssri as the anxiety is tenfold,  Iv got mirtrazapine but I'm too nervous to try it although my doctor said it's the least likely to cause anxiety, she also told me my withdrawl symptoms are psychosomatic so I don't have much trust there. It's a hard call I think I'm going to wait it out and hope it lifts when I'm off the diazepam. Iv never had depression this deep before so I'm hoping it's just the withdrawl

[[jo...]]

HI Tattyapple in response to Your message regarding depression is Im in the same boat. Please believe me the k most likely making Your depression worst as it is mine. Contrary to what We have been told clonazepam messes with the receptors from other neurochemicals NOT JUST GABBA. It inhibits the binding of other neurochemical including the one and only serotonin.

 

Im no expert at drugs however I have had depression for 61 years as I was born with it. I know how crushing the symptoms can be. I get the physical ones , irritability , anxiety , insomnia muscle pain etc etc.  Sadly clonazepam and possibly other benzos can cause the same symptoms in themselves never mind also when You withdrawing from these drugs so combine that with the depression and people like us really get hit hard.

 

How to can we raise Our own neurochemicals such as serotonin while this poison is doing the opposite. One medical journal i read clearly stated that it also negates the effects of anti depressant meds which would explain why ADs dont work when going through WD and tapering.

 

I may be wrong however I firmly believe that if I did not have underlying depression I would have beat this drug weeks ago. Its the combination of symptoms that are crushing me into the ground with no rest for My mind or body, sleep or not sleep I get worse every day. Just dont know what to do anymore.

[[Fo...]]

Curcumin, as Time says, and Culturelle and L Plantarum 299v.

 

Do a search on curcumin, Lacto GG (L Rhamnosus strain in Culturelle which increases GABA receptor expression and lowers anxiety) and L Plantarum 299v (which increases BDNF good for depression). Add in prebiotic foods, such as jerusalem artichokes, onions and eat healthy. Find food you enjoy that is good for you. I cut out all grains personally and eat a lot of prebiotic foods, vegetables, chicken, egg yolks, etc.

 

I remember thinking that treating mental health issues by starting in the gut was nuts, but it has worked well for me.

[[jo...]]

Hello formywifeandkids I have a follow up question for You. First of all Im impressed that I found someone on BB that is interested in the Probiotic thing which is suppose to blossem into helping with mental illness someday !  Anyway Im not into short hand so please tell Me what BDNF stands for ? 

 

Also regarding the Probiotics You mentioned , do YOu purchase them serperately in a capsule or can they be found in things like Kefir or Yogurt drinks.  Here in Rhode Island We have a store named Whole Foods and they have a lot of so called natural things and a large assortment of suppliments etc.  Their are some so called better probiotics that claim to have a zillion good bacteria in them. I have NO idea how they determine which ones are in there however I wonder if I could find one of these liquid yogurts with the pro biotics . do You get Your probiotics in a yogurt or yogurt drink ?  I have heard of curcumin some kind of spice or something, what is it suppose to do ? 

 

If the probiotic you mentioned does help with the GABA receptors that would be great , the million dollar question is I wonder if it starts helping only after the drug is out of the body ! No one seems to know if the receptors try to re balance somewhat during the tapering process ? I appreciate the info.

[[hu...]]

Anyway Im not into short hand so please tell Me what BDNF stands for ? 

 

BDNF - Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor, a type of protein that helps in nerve growth. That's all I know.

[[Fo...]]

As hurtbrain said, BDNF is Brain Derived Neutrotrophic Factor. It stimulates neurogenesis, repair of the brain basically. It is induced by exercise and certain strains of probiotic.

 

Curcumin, which is derived from the Indian spice turmeric also stimulates BDNF and also acts as an MAOI (mainly MAO A boosting serotonin, but in higher doses also boosts MAO B which increases dopamine). Curcumin is also anti-fungal, anti-parasitic and cancer-preventative. It stimulates bile which helps the liver and digestion. Avoid preparations contained piperine if you are on any medication including benzos as piperine is a very strong inhibitor of liver enzymes and will mess with your dose and clearance.

 

If you intend to take cultured vegetables or kefir, curcumin may be contraindicated because cultured veg and kefir contain tyramine so there may be an interaction. I took both but had a histamine reaction to the kefir that took several weeks to manifest, so did not personally notice any tyramine interaction.

 

If I could tolerate it I would take kefir in a heartbeat. I would go with milk kefir because it contains more strains. The fermentation process creates a little alcohol and I found this more noticeable with water kefir. Kefir contains a lot of lacto strains and beneficial yeasts:

 

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/milk-kefir-grains-composition-bacteria-yeast

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/water-kefir-grains-composition-bacteria-yeast

 

Anecdotally I have noticed people tend to prefer cultured vegetables such as sauerkraut because the predominant strain is L Plantarum which induces BDNF. Sauerkraut is cheap and easy to make as well. Kefir or cultured veg do not contain bifido strains, but these can be obtained in probiotic form and taking things like unmodified potato starch (Bob Mills does a bag very cheap) boosts bifido bacteria, as do some lacto species of probiotic indirectly. Because sauerkraut is made from fermented cabbage, I have always avoided it due to cabbage being a cruciferous vegetable inducing liver enzymes, which could push me into withdrawal by clearing the benzo out of my system quicker. I wouldn't recommend it during a taper but afterwards most definitely.

 

I have found significant benefit taking probiotics and curcumin during my taper. I have seen more progress taking Culturelle (lacto GG) and Jarrow Ideal Bowel Support (L Plantarum 299v). I take a store bought probiotic yoghurt that does not contain histamine promoting strains, but it is fairly mild in probiotic terms. I just like the taste. 

 

When I started the probiotics I had some anxiety and brain fog but I was also dealing with candida due to broad spectrum antibiotics, so I knew this was die off. The Jarrows stuff is powerful in particular. My sleep has been really solid.

 

I also take butyric acid which increases serotonin but if you can tolerate resistant starch then this will create the butyrates for you.

http://authoritynutrition.com/resistant-starch-101/

 

Prebiotic foods (inulin containing foods) are fantastic and I really love jerusalem artichokes. These are sunflower tubers, not to be confused with artichokes. The great thing about jerusalem artichokes is that they are a really low maintenance vegetable, so anyone can plant a couple of bulbs and they grow like an invasive weed (!) so you end up with an abundant supply.

http://www.prebiotin.com/foods-containing-prebiotics/

 

The best strains in my personal experience are L Rhamnosus and L Plantarum for depression and anxiety, and biffidus longum. I have heard biffidus infantis is also excellent but haven't tried this. Culturelle is 10 billion per capsule, and Jarrow Bowel Support is also 10 billion. I am in the UK, and I also take Optibac Probiotics For Daily Wellbeing and Optibac Extra Strength. Overall I am taking approximately 95 billion probiotics per day. I have come down from 60mg fluoxetine to 10mg, and am on just under 0.9mg diazepam from 7.5mg diazepam. I was in multiple psych drug withdrawal because doctors treated SSRI withdrawal as a delusion, and threw anti-psychotics into the mix. I think I went through about 5 of those altogether (?) and things were getting worse and worse, until I started to do my own research.

 

I would hate to talk anyone out of taking medication if they need it, but I will personally never ever take a psychotropic medication again. SSRIs messed me up and anti-psychotics made it worse, and the benzos and zopiclone that were given to help me sleep due to the insomnia caused by the SSRIs? Well you all know what benzos do.

 

If you have any more questions, just ask.

 

P.S. Sorry about the detail or if I have missed anything.