Down to .375mg klonopin but having a really rough time

[[dg...]]

Hey everybody,

 

Finally decided to come on here. I dont want to get scared about withdrawal and I don't actively sit around worrying about it, but I want to get off klonopin. However, when I taper past 0.5mg thats when these withdrawal effects seemingly kick in. I was on 1mg 3x a time for a time and coming off the night and midday doses was a hell of a lot easier than coming off this dose in the morning. I've been on klonopin for almost 5 years, 7/8 of that time I was on 0.5mg which may have something to do with why it's hard to cut past that point. I've been droppoing down in 1/4 increments (0.125) and I made that cut around 3 weeks ago. Last Wednesday I decided to cut that dose by another 1/8 (dont know what mg that is) and I've felt like absolute dogshit since then and I felt pretty bad already since I made the 0.125mg cut. I decided today to hold at 0.375mg until I start feeling a lot better because it's really hindering my ability to work. The symptoms I get are increased muscle pain and tension as well as increased anxiety. My whole body feels tense and my eyes hurt like hell (my main symptom) and my body feels supercharged and agitated. Little things that wouldn't normally bother me set me off very easily.

 

I don't know what to do at this point. I heard that the closer you get to coming off klonopin the more "raw" your body gets because less of the active ingredient is in there so you're more hyperstimulated but not getting a lot of the effects of the drug anymore. I'm worried if I stay at such a low dose I'm just going to be stuck in this purgatory where I'm really hyperstimulated but the drug really isn't helping anymore. I've tried to brave through it 2 times now and twice I went back up to 0.5mg because the pain got too strong. Do you guys have any suggestions on what to do about this? I want to break free from this medication so badly. I feel cheated by my psychiatrist who didn't tell me that this would happen, put me on this benzo and actually still wants me to stay on it. I told him what was happening to me and that I thought it was withdrawal and he says "Is it withdrawal or is it that your body needs it?" Im forced to seek support elsewhere because my psychiatrist of 30 years doesn't have a clue.

 

Are there herbs, meditation and exercise, foods to eat, etc. to use to minimize withdrawal reactions so I can actaully come off klonopin once and for all? The only thing my doctor recommended was clonodine to help with withdrawal effects. Im so close to getting off this fucking drug and only have 3 cuts to go. I just read about another guy who held on his dosage for 4 months and then started coming back down again.

[[...]]

If I were in your shoes I'd liquify the K and begin a daily taper making tiny cuts each day and holding when needed to not allow symptoms to increase.  K is difficult to taper dry as it does not come in convenient pill sizes to make the small cuts needed for tapering, but if you liquify it this problem goes away.

[[Ki...]]

I just started using a beta blocker to slow down my heart. My problem is jolting awake in the morning with a racing heart, which triggers anxiety, which triggers everything else. Its like an avalanche. The first stone to fall is my heart. Beta blockers are supposedly non-addictive, and relaxing. They are used for stage fright and public speaking. See if you can get some. You have nothing to lose.

[[dg...]]

I have no clue how to liquefy klonopin. I'm taking the generic btw. My doctor also gave me 0.1mg clonidine to take at night, a beta blocker, which is supposed to help. I took it once so far and didn't notice a difference maybe it takes longer.

 

Will liquifying the drug make it. More complicated to get off? And you recommended cutting every day if it was liquified. Do you have more information about this? I was planning on cutting 1/8 of a .5mg pill when my body stabilized, I think that's pretty low

[[dg...]]

Also how do you calculate the percentage of the cut you're doing? IM terrible with percentages so  when somebody says make 5% cuts I don't know what to do, especially when I'm taking .375mg right now

[[...]]

I'd urge you to look into it.  It could make this a lot easier.  There are several ways to liquify K, but perhaps the easiest is to put it in full fat whole milk.  I think cutting daily is best (of coarse holding when needed to avoid symptom increase), but whatever you do cut small so as not to let symptoms get out of control.  When you cut daily you no longer need to deal with percentages.  There is just a daily cut and you ride it until it is used up.

[[dg...]]

sg,

 

i did a 1/4 cut of a .5mg tab on the 23rd of november so this is the start of the 4th week since i made that cut. i was getting ahead of myself and did that 1/8th cut again last wednesday and things just got worse. you were on 4mg of klonopin i see and you did the liquid method? i dont want to willy nilly look at some site on the internet and get the wrong information on how to do the liquid method, do you have any you recommend? is it right here on the forum? some people say that you're prolonging the pain by dragging it out and others say that you should go really slow. that 1/4 cut i realized after the fact was a 25% decrease from 0.5 which is a decent cut, maybe I should have made 1/8 instead.

 

I dont want to go back to 0.5mg though... is this going to stabilize even after 3 weeks? i decided to hold the dose at 0.375 because ive been feeling like shit and I wanted to wait until after christmas before i cut again for obvious reasons. do you think i need to go back to 0.5mg to feel better again or can I stay where I'm at? i really really dont want to tread over that same ground again, especially after 3 weeks, and I've gone back up to 0.5mg 2 times before already when the symptoms got worse.

 

Alex

 

 

[[...]]

I feel your pain.  I made that same mistake and I have regretted it ever since.  I made too big a cut and decided to tough it out.  It was a terrible decision.  I'd definitely put the 1/8 back and probably go back to .5mg too.  It's been a few weeks and there is a clock that goes in motion when we cut big, but I would do it anyway if it were me.  Another thing you can try is to go up in smaller chunks and hope you feel better with a partial updose.

 

The info on liquid tapering is right here.  Many people do it.  I could get you started if you want.  I've been around the block and then some and I can tell you pushing through is a bad road you don't want to go down.  If you taper properly you can feel okay and get back to life.

[[dg...]]

sg,

 

i think i might go back to the 0.5mg dose tomorrow because this is really painful (literally in my body). The pain went up in my eyes and my anxiety went up as well. The 25% cut I made obviously was too big. I feel like a failure though that I have to go back up to 0.5mg after being off of it for 3 weeks and that this means Im on the path of never getting off this godforsaken drug. This will be the third time I've returned to 0.5mg (it makes sense now with what I know because the first time I went under 0.5mg I made a 50% cut to 0.25mg what a huge mistake). Am I going to get messed up by making that large of a cut? I went back up like 3-4 days later after I made that 50% cut but now Im going to be going back up to 0.5mg again from the 25% cut.

 

Yes I could really use your help with the liquid titration method. Deborah just told me she tried that too and had great success with it but I dont know what the hell Im doing. I'm going to read over the titration board but this is completely new to me and could use help from somebody who came off of this before using that method.

 

Alex

[[...]]

If you've decided to updose why wait til tomorrow?

 

You are not a failure.  These drugs are very difficult to stop.  They are straight from hell.  Precipitous drops are not good, but if you taper in small bites and give it time it can go much much better than what you have experienced so far.

[[dg...]]

Yeah they are straight from the pits of hell. I thought I had to wait until tomorrow to take the 0.5 again because I take them in the mornings, can I take the 1/4 part of the pill I didn't take this morning right now? I found a compounding pharmacy near me that does liquid versions of benzos for this purpose. The guy there said he has multiple people coming to him right now for the same thing. I dont know how much it costs to do that through him I still have to find out, otherwise do you think I can direct taper and dry cut the meds if I do it in 1/8 increments which is a 12.5% cut?

[[...]]

Yes, I would take it now.  Get yourself feeling good, then think about tapering.

 

You can make your own liquid K with whole milk, but a compounding pharmacy is also an option.  I would not advise a 12.5% cut.  Way bigger than what I am comfortable with.  You need to get the thought that bigger is faster out of your head.  It's not.  You heal as fast as your body allows no matter how big or small you cut, so you might as well feel good.  Cutting big save no time.  In fact I think it adds more.

[[dg...]]

talked to the compound pharmacy, he said that it will be around $75 a month to do liquid titration if I supply him with the TEVA klonopin tablets. does this seem like a good deal? I watched the video on doing the titration yourself and it looked a bit confusing. I dont know how it works if you get it from the compound pharmacy

[[Bi...]]

Yes, I would take it now.  Get yourself feeling good, then think about tapering.

 

You can make your own liquid K with whole milk, but a compounding pharmacy is also an option.  I would not advise a 12.5% cut.  Way bigger than what I am comfortable with.  You need to get the thought that bigger is faster out of your head.  It's not.  You heal as fast as your body allows no matter how big or small you cut, so you might as well feel good.  Cutting big save no time.  In fact I think it adds more.

 

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[[...]]

talked to the compound pharmacy, he said that it will be around $75 a month to do liquid titration if I supply him with the TEVA klonopin tablets. does this seem like a good deal? I watched the video on doing the titration yourself and it looked a bit confusing. I dont know how it works if you get it from the compound pharmacy

 

They make it more complicated than it is.  You can do it.  you just need whole milk, 1ml and 10ml syringes, and a few jars.  That's it!!  It becomes very familiar very quickly and it soooo worth it.  You can spend the money and have the pharmacy do it, but there is no need.  The homemade way is easy.

[[dg...]]

yeah i'd like to save $75 a month. ill watch the video again and see if i can grasp it. im not good with math calculations which is where im worried i'll screw this up. by the way, since updosing back to 0.5 today i feel back to normal shitty self but thats better than how I felt for the last 3 weeks. Thats normal right, to not feel good even though I'm at the dose my body is used to? i think its called tolerance withdrawal. its weird because i feel better than yesterday but still feel bad...

[[...]]

Give it time.  The drug is still building up blood levels so your brain has not felt the full effect yet.  But it is a great sign that you felt immediate relief.  That doesn't always happen when you've been at a lower dose for an extended time.

 

Don't worry about the math and stuff.  Once it is figured right that's pretty much the end of math.  You just do the same thing each day and it becomes second nature very quickly.  Most of the people doing it are like you.

[[dg...]]

hey sg,

 

i decided to do it myself so i bought the 100ml cylinder, the pestle and mortar, and the other things. The first video I watched really confused me but this video made sense to me:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RzUvM6M55s

 

Didn't see those 2 videos at the bottom the first time I read them. I think Im going to do like he said and taper down 2ml a day for the first 1/3 of the 100ml, then 1ml a day for the next 1/3, and then 1ml every other day for the last 1/3 of the 100ml. Does this sound slow enough to minmize withdrawal symptoms to very low and be able to jump? I was also very glad I felt relief after jumping back to 0.5mg.

 

What I meant about feeling better at 0.5mg but still feeling like crap is because my "normal" is feeling like crap.. reducing the dosage down by 25% though increased that quite a bit. I just wanted to know if it was "normal" to not feel good after you've been on a 0.5mg dosage for 5 years.

[[...]]

In the video his rate is too high.  He puts a .5mg pill into 100ml milk, which is fine, but then he recommends 2ml per day reduction.  Each ml contains .005mg so he is recommending a .010mg per day reduction.  That is flying!  Half that is flying.  It will make you sick pretty quick.  It is reckless to begin at that rate.

 

If it were me I'd begin by removing .0015mg per day (which is .3ml).  I'd test this for two weeks and if okay go up to .002mg, test for two weeks, up to .0025mg, test, up, test, up, test...like that.  Keep going up until you find symptom increase.

 

Don't ever forget that what your brain needs most is time.  There is not quick answer, but you can feel good while it happens.

[[dg...]]

So coming off at 2ml a day would be a 28% decrease every 2 weeks if I'm correct. Doing 1ml would be a 14% decrease and then 0.5ml would be a 7% decrease. I want to take this slow but not so slow that it takes over a year to come off a 0.5mg pill. I've already been at this for many months. Ashton recommended coming off 5-10% every 14 days so 1ml every 2 days or 0.5ml a day seems ok. If I had to come off in .0015mg a day I would mess up the math I guarantee it I need something simple.

[[dg...]]

also will i gradually start feeling better as im coming down over the next 200 days? i read somewhere on the board that my brain will be adjusting to using GABA on its own throughout this period

[[...]]

So coming off at 2ml a day would be a 28% decrease every 2 weeks if I'm correct. Doing 1ml would be a 14% decrease and then 0.5ml would be a 7% decrease. I want to take this slow but not so slow that it takes over a year to come off a 0.5mg pill. I've already been at this for many months. Ashton recommended coming off 5-10% every 14 days so 1ml every 2 days or 0.5ml a day seems ok. If I had to come off in .0015mg a day I would mess up the math I guarantee it I need something simple.

 

Here's the thing, you do not get to choose how fast you taper.  All you can do is find your best rate that does not bring on symptoms and not exceed it.  If you do that you can feel good while tapering.  But if you insist on a time schedule and are focused on the number zero you will get sick and stay sick after you are done.  I've laid out a way to find your best cut.  .0015mg is a starting point for searching.  I know staying patient is hard.  It is an insanely long process, but this is what is required.  And TBH, if you feel good the taper time does not seem as daunting.

[[Bi...]]

So coming off at 2ml a day would be a 28% decrease every 2 weeks if I'm correct. Doing 1ml would be a 14% decrease and then 0.5ml would be a 7% decrease. I want to take this slow but not so slow that it takes over a year to come off a 0.5mg pill. I've already been at this for many months. Ashton recommended coming off 5-10% every 14 days so 1ml every 2 days or 0.5ml a day seems ok. If I had to come off in .0015mg a day I would mess up the math I guarantee it I need something simple.

 

Here's the thing, you do not get to choose how fast you taper.  All you can do is find your best rate that does not bring on symptoms and not exceed it.  If you do that you can feel good while tapering.  But if you insist on a time schedule and are focused on the number zero you will get sick and stay sick after you are done.  I've laid out a way to find your best cut.  .0015mg is a starting point for searching.  I know staying patient is hard.  It is an insanely long process, but this is what is required.  And TBH, if you feel good the taper time does not seem as daunting.

 

[[dg...]]

Here's the thing, you do not get to choose how fast you taper.  All you can do is find your best rate that does not bring on symptoms and not exceed it.  If you do that you can feel good while tapering.  But if you insist on a time schedule and are focused on the number zero you will get sick and stay sick after you are done.  I've laid out a way to find your best cut.  .0015mg is a starting point for searching.  I know staying patient is hard.  It is an insanely long process, but this is what is required.  And TBH, if you feel good the taper time does not seem as daunting.

 

How do you even draw .0015mg out of a 100ml tube?

[[...]]

The guy on the video makes it more difficult than it is.  Keep it simple.  All you need is a 1ml and a 10ml oral syringe.  Then get a few jars that seal well.  Like jam jars or canning jars.  Forget the tube.  We don't need no stinking tube.

 

1.  Measure out 50ml whole milk into a jar with the 10ml syringe (5 pulls) and drop in the .5mg pill.  Give it time and agitate once in a while.  Make sure it's mixed and has had time to dissolve.  You now have 50ml of K-milk in a jar at a concentration of .01mg per ml.  Each ml contains .01mg K.

 

2.  With your 1ml syringe, draw up .15ml and discard.  This is a .0015mg cut.

 

3.  Split the rest into your daily doses and drink one at each dose time.