HOLDING, ALMOST INTOLORABLE AND NOT GETTING BETTER, HELP!I

[[Sc...]]

I am truly sorry for posting so much on the same thing, but at wits end and don't know where else to turn. Been holding at .8mg V for a month and things are not getting better, actually getting worse. Had not been sleeping at all 3 or 4 days a week and last two nights got some sleep tuesday and about 4 or 5 hrs of light sleep with many awakenings last night. Woke up with anxiety and depression that is outrageous. Guts wrenching and painful, hard to breath, dizzy, nauseous, tight band around head, blurred vision, tinnitus, akasthesia, and its been going all day,  I am sure you get the picture most probably have had the same.

 

The crazy thing is that yesterday the am was bad but after lunch it let up a lot and by 4pm for the rest of the night I was feeling probably 80 or more percent normal. Then i got more sleep last night than I have in a while, and this happens. I was starting to think that my symptoms were more from lack of sleep but I guess not. I did use l-theanine and passion flower the past two nights. Acutually I have used l-theanine for a month but avoided passionflower till the other night and it does work pretty well, but....?

 

I know folks have tried to explain this to me but I continue to have a very hard time understanding how at such a low dosage (still felt some relaxing effect at 2mg, but under that and certainly now feel absolutely nothing when I take my dose at night) it can be getting worse.

 

And then the thought keeps plaguing me, why don't I just jump at least i would be in the final healing process, but I desperately don't want to crash and updose.

Should mention that I had only taken benzos for 4 1/2 months before I started the taper, during that time had a bad overnight c/o to valium from K, but stabilized on the V after about 8 weeks.

 

Been holding,but feel like I am just spinning around, with no definitive plan, these drugs are evil and should be illegal except for one time pre-op use. Just when you think it can't get any worse, it does!

I need a good plan, or maybe just need to be dope slapped up the side of the head cause I am just not getting it, i don't know......help!

 

[[Lo...]]

I know how you feel mate , I had a set "schedule" that I was going to stick to no matter what . Within 3 weeks was in hell and bed ridden. I updosed last week and nearly feel human again  . maybe its time to updose ?? no point in suffering when you can minimise smptoms and just take your time with the taper as quality of life is something everyone needs ! Anyway I hope you feel better soon one day we are all gonna slay this beast !

[[al...]]

I jumped, it was a disaster, I went back to a low dose of Klonopin and held for 4 months. I had such a hard time and was feeling worse and worse at the end of my taper, the lower \i went the worse I felt. I think my body was just so sick and tired of tapering mentally and physically and my inner strengthen and stamina was shot. SO I held for 4 months. Built up my stability and desire to keep tapering and strength.........I knew it was going to be super slow and minute cuts and the whole ordeal again............boy was i wrong. That hold was so restorative and healing and i only had to do a few cuts and jumped. It was so easy it was shocking the second jump time due to the hold. I am 11 weeks post and things are great. Honestly, they are really good. I had a pretty bad wave for a week and the first 4 weeks were rough but now it's ok. I am far from healed, but damn i feel pretty functional and good.

 

Bama.xo

[[Sc...]]

Thanks for the perspectives. I really don't want to updose, I would hold for a while. The problem is that I am not feeling any better and holding for a month. Perhaps it will get better if I just stay the course, but frankly i am so drained and discouraged.

 

Alabamawerle, how long did you hold before you felt better? If I could just start feeling better it would make me more confident that this is the right course. I held a 1mg and at .9 and after as week or three I was having 3 or 4 good days in a row. But this hold, almost nada.

 

thanks you guys for responding. I know people are hesitant to respond because they don't want to appear to tell someone what they should do, after all, we are not doctors......however there is almost NO research on benzos and  most doctors have NO experience with or believe withdrawal. Most doctors therefore have nothing to base their opinions on, having no research to consult, few or no paitents going through wd, and no personal experience.  So that makes the folks on benzobuddies the best source of useful advise we really have.

Folks please don't hesitate to respond, thanks.

[[al...]]

Thanks for the perspectives. I really don't want to updose, I would hold for a while. The problem is that I am not feeling any better and holding for a month. Perhaps it will get better if I just stay the course, but frankly i am so drained and discouraged.

 

Alabamawerle, how long did you hold before you felt better? If I could just start feeling better it would make me more confident that this is the right course. I held a 1mg and at .9 and after as week or three I was having 3 or 4 good days in a row. But this hold, almost nada.

 

thanks you guys for responding. I know people are hesitant to respond because they don't want to appear to tell someone what they should do, after all, we are not doctors......however there is almost NO research on benzos and  most doctors have NO experience with or believe withdrawal. Most doctors therefore have nothing to base their opinions on, having no research to consult, few or no paitents going through wd, and no personal experience.  So that makes the folks on benzobuddies the best source of useful advise we really have.

Folks please don't hesitate to respond, thanks.

 

My end of tapers were always quite tricky except fro the last one after I held for 4 months. I almost always had to do some updosing then holding, then reducing...for all of the drugs I tapered. It took 2.5 years to taper all of them. I know very well the feeling of exhaustion, being fed up and discouraged. I NEVER regretted an updose. and there were loads of them. I NEVER regretted a hold. And they always gave me the break and courage I needed to continue.

 

There are no rules in w/d. Listen to your body. A small updose might be what you need to get your spirits up to be able to continue. Never underestimate the power of listening to your body. I never think that updosing or holding is going backwards. It is self preservation and care. If I held and it wasnt' getting better after  a few weeks, I did an updose and then it got better.  Then I would hold until I felt like continuing....giving myself a break was always a good thing.

 

Hope that helps? Take care and remember........you are the boss of your own taper. Bama.xo

[[Cl...]]

Hi Scared, I am so sorry you are suffering that much during your taper after being on a benzo for 4.5 months, this is very unfair you. I may be an strange case, but when holding for long time I feel worse, then I cut and after few days I feel much better. So, as you do not want to updose, which is GREAT I think, you can either hold or cut a bit and see what happens. All the best for you!

[[Di...]]

I can only give you my perspective on what's going on, and that is I think it's all because you've brought your dose down too quickly up until now. So simply holding for a month may not be long enough to counter that drop in dose over a relatively short period of time. It may take a couple of more months at least.

 

There are two choices - you either just keep holding until you start to feel better, or you could try an updose. Maybe initially try going back to 1mg or 1.5mg, but you will still probably need to keep holding for a while.

 

The fact that yesterday you had a very small window could be that things will slowly start to get better, but it's really a case of how long is a piece of string.

 

[[Sc...]]

Thanks, Diaz-Pam, Clona, and Alabamawerle, I have been holding and will continue. Things are looking up the past day and today. Yesterday I had a good window in the afternoon and evening. Last night, went to sleep with nothing at 8:30pm and woke up 40min later, took 200mg Lthenine and 200mg gaba. Miraculously I slept (with repeated awakenings) till 4am. That is the most sleep I have had in about 10 months!

Today I feel ok, little weak and edgy but good, so who knows, I realize I could be back in the crapper at any minute, but hoping for the best and  staying positive. If I continue to feel better I will be careful and hold until I regain enough strength to keep going.

 

Interestingly, I saw the acupuncturist yesterday afternoon, he checked me out and said I was having a condition in Chinese medicine which he best described this way; imagine a wheel with a hub, as long as the hub is in the center of the wheel it turns evenly, if the hub is off center, the wheel is all wobbly. The wheel is my central energy system and he said the hub was all over the place, which will produce symptoms that are all over the spectrum. He treated it until the pluses showed it was stable, at least at that time.

Perhaps this had something to do with the improvement in  sleep last night, I don't really know, but sure is interesting.

[[je...]]

I would keep going to the acupuncturist if I were you.  I recently discovered that a 90 minute massage once a week solved my extreme muscle tension & also relaxes the hell out of me.  From now on, before updosing, which I have no regrets because it kept me from living in hell, I will try to treat the symptoms first.  I may even try an acupuncturist.

 

That being said, if I cannot successfully treat the symptoms, I will up-dose or reinstate before living in misery. 

[[Fr...]]

Scared, I think your resolve to hold is admirable and proves you have enough strength to stay with the taper. I'm holding, too. I thought I could cut down about now, but while some symptoms are better, I have others that are … don't know how to explain it … more intrusive?  Part of me thinks it's my anxiety rising, so I force myself to deep breath. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't. Being distracted helps, but only if I let it.

[[Sw...]]

Acupuncture is helping me, recommend it to anyone who is considering it.

[[Sc...]]

Thanks Jet, Needsrelief and Sweetpea, I have been going to the acupuncturist during my whole taper, and it always helps at the time and for a few hrs afterward, but this is one of a few times I suspect it did a lot more. Jet, I have been thinking about massage too, just been too lazy to find one, but I am going to, i think it would help, especially now since I have normal sensitivity in my skin.

[[Sw...]]

I think the acupuncture is helping me now that I am not in the acute withdrawal phase.  I had gotten a massage during the acute withdrawal phase that made me feel worse for a few days.  I think the key is to just see how your body feels that day before you get a treatment.  Let us know how you do.

[[Cl...]]

Scared wonderful to know you had a nice night and a nice window! I am sure you are going to have many more!

[[Br...]]

 

I know folks have tried to explain this to me but I continue to have a very hard time understanding how at such a low dosage (still felt some relaxing effect at 2mg, but under that and certainly now feel absolutely nothing when I take my dose at night) it can be getting worse.

 

And then the thought keeps plaguing me, why don't I just jump at least i would be in the final healing process, but I desperately don't want to crash and updose.

 

Should mention that I had only taken benzos for 4 1/2 months before I started the taper, during that time had a bad overnight c/o to valium from K, but stabilized on the V after about 8 weeks.

 

Been holding,but feel like I am just spinning around, with no definitive plan, these drugs are evil and should be illegal except for one time pre-op use. Just when you think it can't get any worse, it does!

 

I need a good plan, or maybe just need to be dope slapped up the side of the head cause I am just not getting it, i don't know......help!

 

Hello Scared.  You sound as if you may well be in tolerance.  If so then updosing is likely to improve your symptoms. However you will most probably develop tolerance at your new higher dose and need to updose once more.  And so it goes on.

 

I was in tolerance for most of my taper.  I found that the degree of tolerance is out of all proportion to the amount of benzo I was taking.  Below is an example of what I mean.

 

For example if I was on 3mg diazepam then my tolerance might make me need another, say, 2mg. 

 

As my dose decreased I found my tolerance did not correspondingly decrease. So when I had tapered down to 1mg diazepam, I still seemed to need another 2mg on account of tolerance.  So, I was on 1mg diazepam but my symptoms were such that I seemed to need 3mg diazepam.

 

Even when I got down to taking very small doses (such as 0.25mg diazepam) I was still in unpleasant tolerance.  The tolerance did not properly end until I was off benzos.  Even then it took several months to start feeling better.

 

If you are in tolerance (and it sounds as if you may be) then the best thing is to think about getting off the benzos as quickly as possible.  This means the taper will be tougher than it could have been but the alternative is to draw out the taper for a long time and have greater total suffering.

 

I am sorry you are faced with such a situation.

[[Fr...]]

What is tolerance? I'm trying to understand it because I may be in it. In fact, I may have been in it prior to the taper. I know I had just reached a point where I would either need more, and keep needing more, or have to stop. Thank you in advance.

[[Sc...]]

Thanks sweetpea, clona, braban i am suspecting the same thing. Yesterday I felt pretty good all day and was getting very hopeful then about 4pm anxiety started again, last night no sleep, and horrible anxiety and restlessness started about 3 am and continues. So discouraged.

 

I wonder if the passion flower could have something to do with it. Used it a couple nights then skipped it for about 3days, last night did the normal ltheanine, gaba, a little b6 at about 9pm then about 11 did the passion flower, about 4 hrs later is when the bad anxiety hit....hmmm? But have been having bad anxiety anyway many days.

Say a prayer for me folks, I don't know what to do.

[[Br...]]

What is tolerance? I'm trying to understand it because I may be in it. In fact, I may have been in it prior to the taper. I know I had just reached a point where I would either need more, and keep needing more, or have to stop. Thank you in advance.

 

Hello NR.  Tolerance is when your body needs more benzo than it is getting. You may find you stay at a steady dose but your body needs a higher dose (perhaps higher than you have ever taken). 

 

A lot of people here seem to think they are in tolerance but I suspect most are mistaken.  On the other hand a few people appear to think they're not in tolerance but seem to have many of the signs.  It can be confusing especially as some of the advice given about tolerance is also muddled!

 

Tolerance is generally unwelcome, especially if you are tapering.  Some highly regarded benzo researchers, such as Bateson, suspect that tolerance is closely linked to dependency.  (Dependency is what you have if you get bad side effects when you stop taking benzos.)

 

There's an explanation of tolerance here http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=9706.0

 

[[Fr...]]

SiM, what time do you take your dose of K?

 

I take mine about 9:00 pm now. I noticed that the onset of symptoms is about 4 - 6 hours before the dosing time. When I was taking the dose earlier, I would experience a ramp-up of symptoms about 10:00 am, then take my dose about 3:00 pm.  As I started pushing the dose back, I noticed a later initiation of symptoms. Eventually I noticed that symptoms would then only start maybe 3 - 4 hours prior to dosing, giving me more "normal" time in the day. If you are taking your dose in the am, then maybe your onset of symptoms is evening.