Short Introduction

[[Al...]]

Hello. I am AlwaysHoping. I picked that name because I am always hoping to get rid of anxiety and to learn to deal with stress more productively by natural methods.

 

I have had anxiety and panic attacks most all my life. They made life miserable for me and I am a social misfit. I also developed fibromyalgia, which my doctor ignores. I have been on benzodiazepines for over 15 years. My doctor just came up one visit and told me that she thought I was tolerant  (duh...after 15 years?) of these drugs and told me to cut my dosage in half. She then turned and walked away. She did not talk about tapering the dosages or other methods to ease the pain of withdrawal. I am somewhat shocked at the lack of support I thought that physicians were supposed to give to their patients when it came to major changes in their medications.

 

I decided that I do not disagree with withdrawing from these medications and actually look forward to being free from clonazepan. However, I disagree with her approach and felt that this is no way a doctor should treat her patient when it comes to withdrawing from this drug.

 

Can any of you tell me if this is a standard approach doctors take when getting people off benzos? Or should I seek out another physician who will work more closely with me on the withdrawal methods?

 

I really really need some good advice. I am determined to extricate myself from these meds now that this action has taken place.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[[me...]]

Hello AlwaysHoping.  Welcome to the forum, we're glad you found us!  I'm sorry that your doctor doesn't know the value of tapering, but unfortunately her reaction is not uncommon.  Relatively few doctors seem to know about the importance of a slow taper.  We recommend a reduction rate of about 5-10% every 10-14 days, though individual rates vary.  Here are a few links you may find useful:

 

General Taper Plans

 

Withdrawal Support (during your taper).

 

The Ashton Manual is an authoritative source on what to expect in withdrawal and recovery.  Dr. Ashton is an expert in the field.  She describes and explains withdrawal symptoms, and there is also a section with withdrawal/taper schedules.

 

Please take the time to Create a Signature.  This will allow others to see where you are in the process so they can better support you.

 

Again, welcome!

 

 

[[Al...]]

Oh thank you so much for responding to me!

 

I was tapering and thought I was good until I got completely off 5 weeks ago. The head pain became so bad that it was frightening me into debilitating panic attacks. My blood pressure got dangerously high 180/110, so I succumbed to going back on 25 mg once at night to stop the whole body muscle quivers. My plan right now is to stay on the 0.25 mg (barely enough) for a couple weeks, then slowly taper to taking that every other day with 12.5mg alternating.

 

I've got to be free of this poison, but I do not want to stroke out in the process. I am almost 59 years old so that is a real possibility for me if I do not take caution in this.

[[De...]]

Hello AlwaysHoping,

 

Welcome to the forum from me too 

 

I agree with you, it is important to be in charge of your own taper rate, your doctor's proposed taper was far too fast, sadly many doctors dont appear to be benzo wise. I think you did the right thing in reinstating with the view to tapering slowly. The lower doses can be more challenging for many members so for this reason we always encourage members to take it very slowly, this will hopefully make for a smooth post taper experience also.

 

You dont say which benzodiazepine you are taking but from what you're describing, tablet strength wise it sounds like it's klonopin (clonazepam) If I was you, I would continue dosing daily until the end of my taper, dosing every other day is not a good idea as firstly it's important to keep the blood benzo level as smooth as possible and alternate day dosing will disrupt this and secondly you may experience interdose withdrawal effects (between dose withdrawals)

 

We have quite a few members in the older age group, I'm in my 60s myself and I've been benzo free for 18 months after a slow taper so I hope this helps to encourage you.

 

Perhaps you could copy the pertinent pages from The Ashton Manual to show to your doctor, there is a withdrawal schedule for klonopin with diazepam substitution within the manual chapter 2 to give you an idea but it isn't essential to cross to diazepam, many members here have successfully tapered directly from the klonopin. I will give you a link to a list of benzo wise doctors in case you're doctor is still uncooperative, I dont know whether there will be any in the area where you live but it might help :

 

http://benzodocs.com/

 

 

I'm glad you found us and I wish you success with the taper.

 

Debbie

[[ME...]]

Hi AlwaysHoping,

 

Are you taking 12.5 mg or 0.125 mg?  I am quite confused.

 

I am tapering also from Clonazepam.  I am doing direct tapering using 0.5 mg tablets.

 

I am now at 0.25 mg.  It is now seven months since I started.  My tapering was hampered by work and life pressures, withdrawal symptoms and some mistakes (irregular, inconsistent dosage).

 

This is only my opinion based on my experience.  I think daily dose is better than dosing every other day.  Daily dosing will give you steady state condition.  And if you are tapering, it will give you smooth reduction.

 

It took me some time and many attempts before my tapering took off smoothly.  I frequently had severe withdrawal symptoms and many times it was unbearable so I gave up and took rescue dose.  Sometimes one rescue does does not arrest the mental agony.  Sometimes I tried to endure for a few days and when I cannot bear it I take rescue dose.  My mistake is I took high dose of rescue dose, and it had intense backlash.

 

After many attempts I was able to stay at 1 mg for several days.  Then I started my slow taper.  1 mg, then 0.9375 mg........

 

Once you get stability, and minimal withdrawal symptoms, tapering will be okey.  In my case, I had a difficult time at the beginning (high dosage).  As I reach low dosage, my mental and emotional health improved.  BUT, severe withdrawal symptoms are still possible at low dosage.

 

Please do not reduce your dosage if you are having withdrawal symptoms.  Wait for some time to stabilize or calm down before proceeding again.  I think there is no single rule in tapering.  Everyone of us respond differently, we have plenty of time, it  is you who will discover the amount of cut and the duration of staying at a certain level or dosage before cutting again.

 

 

MEexpat

 

 

 

 

[[be...]]

welcome  I am sorry to read that your doctor thinks that it a correct way to get off benzodiazepines. My doctor thought stopping 8 mg of Ativan, after a decade of use, was a ok thing to do. I was forced into a detox center and went through a horrific withdrawal. Fortunately after a year I am healed. The recommended reduction rate is 5 to 10 percent every two weeks. Stopping too rapidly can cause some pretty rough symptoms. Is your doctor at all open to slowing the taper? Or perhaps a new doctor is in order.

[[Al...]]

Hello AlwaysHoping,

 

Welcome to the forum from me too 

 

I agree with you, it is important to be in charge of your own taper rate, your doctor's proposed taper was far too fast, sadly many doctors dont appear to be benzo wise. I think you did the right thing in reinstating with the view to tapering slowly. The lower doses can be more challenging for many members so for this reason we always encourage members to take it very slowly, this will hopefully make for a smooth post taper experience also.

 

You dont say which benzodiazepine you are taking but from what you're describing, tablet strength wise it sounds like it's klonopin (clonazepam) If I was you, I would continue dosing daily until the end of my taper, dosing every other day is not a good idea as firstly it's important to keep the blood benzo level as smooth as possible and alternate day dosing will disrupt this and secondly you may experience interdose withdrawal effects (between dose withdrawals)

 

We have quite a few members in the older age group, I'm in my 60s myself and I've been benzo free for 18 months after a slow taper so I hope this helps to encourage you.

 

Perhaps you could copy the pertinent pages from The Ashton Manual to show to your doctor, there is a withdrawal schedule for klonopin with diazepam substitution within the manual chapter 2 to give you an idea but it isn't essential to cross to diazepam, many members here have successfully tapered directly from the klonopin. I will give you a link to a list of benzo wise doctors in case you're doctor is still uncooperative, I dont know whether there will be any in the area where you live but it might help :

 

http://benzodocs.com/

 

 

I'm glad you found us and I wish you success with the taper.

 

Debbie

 

Thank you Debbie!  This is good advice to take it everyday instead of every other day. Maybe I am borrowing trouble ahead of time, but I am thinking that there is only so many times to cut a half of a 0.5mg pill into smaller doses. 

 

Would it be better if I just stay on a small dose (tiny piece of a pill) for longer? 

 

My doctor is not open to suggestions. When I asked her to address the fibromyalgia, the only thing she offered was another SSRI (Cymbalta). SSRI medications were a nightmare for me for 20 years. It took me 9 months to finally wean from them safely (with very little guidance from her) and I was not about to hop on that bandwagon again. She snapped at me when I refused Cymbalta and walked away.

[[Ch...]]

Hello AlwaysHoping,

 

Welcome to the forum from me too 

 

I agree with you, it is important to be in charge of your own taper rate, your doctor's proposed taper was far too fast, sadly many doctors dont appear to be benzo wise. I think you did the right thing in reinstating with the view to tapering slowly. The lower doses can be more challenging for many members so for this reason we always encourage members to take it very slowly, this will hopefully make for a smooth post taper experience also.

 

You dont say which benzodiazepine you are taking but from what you're describing, tablet strength wise it sounds like it's klonopin (clonazepam) If I was you, I would continue dosing daily until the end of my taper, dosing every other day is not a good idea as firstly it's important to keep the blood benzo level as smooth as possible and alternate day dosing will disrupt this and secondly you may experience interdose withdrawal effects (between dose withdrawals)

 

We have quite a few members in the older age group, I'm in my 60s myself and I've been benzo free for 18 months after a slow taper so I hope this helps to encourage you.

 

Perhaps you could copy the pertinent pages from The Ashton Manual to show to your doctor, there is a withdrawal schedule for klonopin with diazepam substitution within the manual chapter 2 to give you an idea but it isn't essential to cross to diazepam, many members here have successfully tapered directly from the klonopin. I will give you a link to a list of benzo wise doctors in case you're doctor is still uncooperative, I dont know whether there will be any in the area where you live but it might help :

 

http://benzodocs.com/

 

 

I'm glad you found us and I wish you success with the taper.

 

Debbie

 

Thank you Debbie!  This is good advice to take it everyday instead of every other day. Maybe I am borrowing trouble ahead of time, but I am thinking that there is only so many times to cut a half of a 0.5mg pill into smaller doses. 

 

Would it be better if I just stay on a small dose (tiny piece of a pill) for longer?

 

My doctor is not open to suggestions. When I asked her to address the fibromyalgia, the only thing she offered was another SSRI (Cymbalta). SSRI medications were a nightmare for me for 20 years. It took me 9 months to finally wean from them safely (with very little guidance from her) and I was not about to hop on that bandwagon again. She snapped at me when I refused Cymbalta and walked away.

 

I would do this if I were you, just to make sure you're on a stable daily dose.  Then I'd begin to taper again slowly.  Many members who have completely healed from the benzodiazepine use and withdrawal have found that their fibromyalgia symptoms have improved or gone away.  Hopefully that will happen with you. 

[[Al...]]

Hi AlwaysHoping,

 

Are you taking 12.5 mg or 0.125 mg?  I am quite confused.

 

I am tapering also from Clonazepam.  I am doing direct tapering using 0.5 mg tablets.

 

I am now at 0.25 mg.  It is now seven months since I started.  My tapering was hampered by work and life pressures, withdrawal symptoms and some mistakes (irregular, inconsistent dosage).

 

This is only my opinion based on my experience.  I think daily dose is better than dosing every other day.  Daily dosing will give you steady state condition.  And if you are tapering, it will give you smooth reduction.

 

It took me some time and many attempts before my tapering took off smoothly.  I frequently had severe withdrawal symptoms and many times it was unbearable so I gave up and took rescue dose.  Sometimes one rescue does does not arrest the mental agony.  Sometimes I tried to endure for a few days and when I cannot bear it I take rescue dose.  My mistake is I took high dose of rescue dose, and it had intense backlash.

 

After many attempts I was able to stay at 1 mg for several days.  Then I started my slow taper.  1 mg, then 0.9375 mg........

 

Once you get stability, and minimal withdrawal symptoms, tapering will be okey.  In my case, I had a difficult time at the beginning (high dosage).  As I reach low dosage, my mental and emotional health improved.  BUT, severe withdrawal symptoms are still possible at low dosage.

 

Please do not reduce your dosage if you are having withdrawal symptoms.  Wait for some time to stabilize or calm down before proceeding again.  I think there is no single rule in tapering.  Everyone of us respond differently, we have plenty of time, it  is you who will discover the amount of cut and the duration of staying at a certain level or dosage before cutting again.

 

 

MEexpat

 

 

Thank you ME expat. Sorry for the confusion on my dosage. I was on 0.5 mg clonopin. I cut it in half to 0.25mg then only one week of 0.125mg before I jumped off. I see now that I should have stayed on that 0.125mg dose for a lot longer as I had a very severe reaction.

 

As bad as the symptoms are with this small of a dose, I'd hate to see what happens if I were on 12.5mg. 

 

What does one do to slightly reduce their dosage? Just shave off some of the tablet? I've been cutting them in half.

 

At any rate, this is probably the single most worse situation I've been in and if I make it out of this, I will be looking into more positive natural ways to deal with panic/anxiety disorder.

[[Al...]]

welcome  I am sorry to read that your doctor thinks that it a correct way to get off benzodiazepines. My doctor thought stopping 8 mg of Ativan, after a decade of use, was a ok thing to do. I was forced into a detox center and went through a horrific withdrawal. Fortunately after a year I am healed. The recommended reduction rate is 5 to 10 percent every two weeks. Stopping too rapidly can cause some pretty rough symptoms. Is your doctor at all open to slowing the taper? Or perhaps a new doctor is in order.

 

I love your name...it says it all! I honestly think that she has no idea. I have told her before that doctors do not know what they are doing to people when they place folks on antidepressants. They are powerful and dangerous drugs. I now know why benzodiazepines are controlled substances. I am sorry that you were forced into a detox center. They are not easy on the patients, at least not the one we have in my neck of the woods. I have never been in for detox and have no plans to go for this.

 

I doubt that my doctor is open to slowing the taper since she so abruptly sprung this on me after continuing my prescription for 8 years, even upping it to 1 mg at some point in time. I think that she is being forced to address it from the pharmacy because her last words to me were that "The government is not going to let me have these medications when I turn 65 anyway".  I was appalled at her attitude that she is not thinking what is the best thing for her patient, but only what the government wants? I need a doctor who will argue for what is best for the patient and explain why a certain procedure or medication is needed, not to roll over and let her patient suffer or worse...die.

 

Thank you for validating me about what I am thinking...that finding a new doctor may be in order. I have one in mind...but he is not a doctor. He is a nurse practioner. NPs can be as good or better than physicians because they are willing to listen to you more than a doctor is. He will not be able to write prescriptions for clonopin, but if necessary, his proctor can. However, I want off these evil medications so bad that I will not be asking for the pills...just want him to monitor my BP medication, diabetes and  other things.

[[ME...]]

AlwaysHoping, For me the timing is more important.  Around 10% reduction is manageable.  1/8 of .5 tab = 0.0625.  Possible at higher dose.

 

At 0.25 mg:  0.0625/.25 = 25%

 

At lower dose, it is difficult to do 10% reduction.  Some people use titration.

 

But I am still using 0.0625 mg reduction.  I am reducing by weight, and I am trying to cut smaller than 0.0625 mg to reduce the %.

 

I mentioned above that for me timing is more critical.  If I am feeling good enough, i do more than 10% reduction.  Because it is not easy to get exact milligrams I need at lower dosage. 

 

In your last post, it looks as you are perfectly feeling good, otherwise you will not jump off after one week. 

 

I cannot give advice, only suggestion and wishful thinking, because I do not know how you feel now.

 

If you do not feel any withdrawal symptoms, you are lucky.  And you are on your way to full recovery.

 

If you happened to have severe withdrawal symptoms (I hope not), you may consider taking 0.125 mg again. 

 

0.125 mg is very low dosage, and prolonged tapering with relatively pleasant mood is an acceptable option.

 

 

 

Expat

[[Al...]]

I think that was what threw me. I was feeling pretty good and thinking that this was going to be a piece of cake when I started to feel worse as the weeks went by. By the 5th week after I jumped, I was having tremors, muscle jerks and excruciating head pain and blood pressure went up to 180-200/ 120.

 

I realized that I had to go back on because I was afraid of stroke at my age.

 

I am wondering that since I had been on klonopin for 15 years, if that medication was in my system for such a long period of time that it took longer for it to dissipate from my system?

 

All I know right now is that my head feels like someone is scraping my scalp from my skull on the top and sides of my head. I am resisting the urge to run and check my BP. I don't want to spend the rest of my night in panic.

[[ME...]]

It is not the purging of Klonopin from our system that will heal us.  It is giving time to our brain to heal and to revert to its original state (chemically or whatever it is).  And it is a slow healing.  I could say, very slow healing.  I am at 0.25 mg and I am still suffering almost unbearable. 

 

With blood pressure conditions, I think you should consult your doctor if you are considering taking other medicines, because it is also likely that you will find some suggestive medications in BB or in other websites.

 

It happened to me too.  When I reached 0.5 mg, I feel so good that I reduced to 0.375 mg in just 5 days.  I am sure you know what happened next.  I was not able to endure and I took 0.4375 mg plus another 1.5 mg to arrest the agony.  I was able to get back to my tapering.

 

But now I am holding at 0.25 mg.  For many days, maybe weeks.  There are so much stressors hammering me now. 

 

This website is populated with compassionate human beings.  We will work this out together.