muscle tightness, tension

[[Wo...]]

I'm about a year out and doing a lot better, but even when I'm not in much of a wave I still notice  a lot of muscle tension and tightness, especially in my back and hips. I don't know if my muscles just don't know how relax anymore from being in and out of waves for so long or what. My back is sore a lot and I wonder if part of it is from all the muscle tightness. Can anyone give me any input or advice on this.

 

Thank's

 

[[ki...]]

You could try magnesium citrate at 400 mg per day and see if that helps.  Epsom salt baths can work too.

[[Wo...]]

I guess what I'm asking is, does this seem possible or normal considering what were all going thru.

[[...]]

I'm nine months out and have the same symptoms. I can Wake up in the middle of the night because of muscle tightness and tension in my back. Its definitely from withdrawal!

[[kd...]]

I have had this since I ct 10 month's ago, I hate it. Somedays it's gripping, I can't bend over, really terrible, hope this helps you....Diane

[Guest [Mo...]]

I have it also, it's muscle cramps.  I thought muscle spasms were bad    Mine are getting better.  IT's worse when the nerve pain is ramped up, but I'm starting to be more active at 5 months and doing more around house for first time in 4 months.  I take 400mg mag citrate 2x a day.  Just started soil based probiotics, big difference in week since I started them, noticeably. 

 

MG

[[kd...]]

Hi Mountaingirl50 , how do the probiotics help or in what way...Diane

[[...]]

Killer symptom for me too, watching this thread.  Mine's all upper body.

Yes, MG, do tell more about the probiotics!  Noticeable difference in one week sounds like sheer heaven to me! 

[Guest [Mo...]]

Killer symptom for me too, watching this thread.  Mine's all upper body.

Yes, MG, do tell more about the probiotics!  Noticeable difference in one week sounds like sheer heaven to me! 

 

I knew that our guts hold about 80% of our immune system, and that the nervous system is connected to our intestines.  This benzo belly has been driving me nuts, so was searching and found this thread a few weeks ago......

 

The non Soil Based Probiotics produce amines that produce neurotransmitters.

 

Before trying kefir, it might be an idea to take bifido dominant strains, and/or focus on L rhamnosus or L plantarum. If you are prone to anxiety, L rhamnosus is a great GABA booster. If you tend more towards depression L plantarum is a good choice, as it boosts Brain Derived Neurotrophic factor. These can be found in the same combinations. Kefir is brilliant if you do not have histamine intolerance, especially milk kefir, which contains both L plantarum and L rhamnosus. It contains a trillion bacteria per 500 mls so is a powerhouse. If you make kefir start out with a small amount, maybe a teaspoon to see how you react.

 

Just beware that the fermentation process produces alcohol so if you are sensitive in withdrawal kefir might not be everyone's choice, although there a number here who swear by it.

 

 

"Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium species are known to produce GABA.  Escherichia, Bacillus, and Saccharomyces produce norepinephrine.  Candida, Streptococcus, Escherichia, and Enterococcus produce  serotonin.  Bacillus and Serratia produce dopamine, and Lactobacillus species produce acetylcholine.  That's pretty much the entire hit parade of major neurotransmitters (there's histamine and glutamate and a few others - and histamine is known to be produced by some bacteria that infect shellfish, for example, causing food poisoning). 

 

The most interesting case here is GABA, the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the nervous system (it chills things out) - and there are whopping amounts made by the bacteria in fermented foods, and is also found in yogurt and typical probiotic capsules.  GABA also turns out to be anti-inflammatory in the gut itself, decreasing the release of inflammatory cytokines.  Thus there is a plausible mechanism by which certain probiotics could decrease inflammation and aid symptoms of conditions such as IBD or IBS, and, considering the vagus nerve and all it's tendrils in the gut, have direct communication via the neurotransmitter GABA to the brain."

is a great GABA booster. If you tend more towards depression L plantarum is a good choice, as it boosts Brain Derived Neurotrophic factor. These can be found in the same combinations. Kefir is brilliant if you do not have histamine intolerance, especially milk kefir, which contains both L plantarum and L rhamnosus. It contains a trillion bacteria per 500 mls so is a powerhouse. If you make kefir start out with a small amount, maybe a teaspoon to see how you react.

 

Just beware that the fermentation process produces alcohol so if you are sensitive in withdrawal kefir might not be everyone's choice, although there a number here who swear by it.

 

 

"Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium species are known to produce GABA.  Escherichia, Bacillus, and Saccharomyces produce norepinephrine.  Candida, Streptococcus, Escherichia, and Enterococcus produce  serotonin.  Bacillus and Serratia produce dopamine, and Lactobacillus species produce acetylcholine.  That's pretty much the entire hit parade of major neurotransmitters (there's histamine and glutamate and a few others - and histamine is known to be produced by some bacteria that infect shellfish, for example, causing food poisoning). 

 

The most interesting case here is GABA, the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the nervous system (it chills things out) - and there are whopping amounts made by the bacteria in fermented foods, and is also found in yogurt and typical probiotic capsules.  GABA also turns out to be anti-inflammatory in the gut itself, decreasing the release of inflammatory cytokines.  Thus there is a plausible mechanism by which certain probiotics could decrease inflammation and aid symptoms of conditions such as IBD or IBS, and, considering the vagus nerve and all it's tendrils in the gut, have direct communication via the neurotransmitter GABA to the brain."

 

[[Wo...]]

anybody else.

[[Fi...]]

I'm fifteen months out and have this symptom, lots of upper back aches.  I'm glad to see others have this too confirming that it's a withdrawal symptom.  Otherwise I start thinking I've just turned the corner into old age during this time and this is what it feels like to be old!

[[...]]

Thanks for the post, MG.  I love kefir but it's so darn expensive.  Maybe I should experiment with making it! 

[[...]]

Try a massage.

I didn't actually go to professional place, but tried a massage chair  (expansive one) at mother in law's house for terrible cramps and body anxiety I got after doing 10 minutes of teaching my daughter how to ride a bike. It wasn't lifting at all for many days, but lifted right next day after using massage chair. I really recommend this.

[[pr...]]

i am 27 months out and i still have severe right shoulder/rhomboid pressure, pulling, tightness and a crushing sensation. very very painful. i also have it around the waist and the left glute muscle.

 

this evening and for the first time, i felt my brain literally lifting and moving around my hands and wrists as if they were on puppet strings. i had never had this before so to have something like this at this far out it quite amazing and very annoying that i am not perfectly healed. but it just goes to show you that anything is possible during this withdrawal experience.

[[Fi...]]

Prettydaisies--

 

I'm curious--since you have been in withdrawal for both benzos and opiates at times, could you tell which symptoms were from which?  I've been off Oxycodone for almost 23 months and Xanax for 15.  A couple things I associate with one or the other, but the violent mood swings seem to be from both.

 

I like signature:  We'll see how brave you are!  Exactly!

[[ba...]]

hi wolflake,  nice to meet you

 

i feel tension in my back neck and shoulders sometimes they become that way because for some reason when im asleep i always seem to wake up in a bad sleeping position stress from xanax withdrawals can be causing it too.

i have some ways that help me massaging that area works extremely well in the evening i shower sometimes in the shower i massage my shoulders and neck or better after shower i fill bathtub with hot tub temperature water i massage those areas while its submersed in that hot water.

you can try some light exercises for shoulder and neck tension this is a great exercise stand up move your sshoulders upwards in a shrugging motion preferaly while holding some dumbbell weights

if you search online light back exercise can help this clear up i know a perfect back exercise that works and feels great , sit at a chair sitting upright place the ankle of your foot onto the knee of your other leg stretch our your arms and hands in front of you, lean forward as far as you can hold it that way for 5-10 seconds , switch feet and repeat process again.  do this a few times a day it feels great i really hope this helps you Wolflake60 or anyone else that reads this god bless you,

katie

[[pr...]]

Prettydaisies--

 

I'm curious--since you have been in withdrawal for both benzos and opiates at times, could you tell which symptoms were from which?  I've been off Oxycodone for almost 23 months and Xanax for 15.  A couple things I associate with one or the other, but the violent mood swings seem to be from both.

 

I like signature:  We'll see how brave you are!  Exactly!

 

Hi FinallyJoining,

 

yes i have been on both benzo's and opiates for a long time and have tried to taper from both at the same time for a long time too. i guess sometimes it's hard to tell what is what. but i have thought about it long and hard at times. i think the opiate withdrawal is much easier of course, for me anyway. the opiate withdrawal for me had a lot of muscle, leg pain and achey feelings. stomach cramping and this certain kind of agitation that the benzo's didn't do. it's hard to explain. but a definite agitation of the nervous system that is different than benzo withdrawal.

 

opiate wd had a lot of muscle "yawning" type of spasms. i think depression could be from the opiate wd but for me, it didn't last too long. i think people usually feel better after 2 weeks from any opiate withdrawal to tell you the truth. from most of the symptoms.

 

the benzo withdrawal is definitely different. for me, it's more revving. internal vibration, squeezing, neuropathy, brain symptoms. derealization. mostly all the other symptoms are the benzo withdrawal for me.

 

23 months is a long time to be off the opiates and i actually think you should be feeling pretty okay from that by now.

 

do you think some of your symptoms are still opiate withdrawal? and what symptoms are the benzo withdrawal for you?

 

prettydaisys

[Guest [Mo...]]

Following, I C/T off 9 pills total, half were opiates.  It was a very rough month, no sleep, restless legs/body, hyperactivity, jello painful legs, much worse than Benzos, but much shorter.  After a month I felt fine, then the K C/T hit me.  Most opiates are gone and  you are clean after a month.  The worst is Methadone, that's the one that took me a month, Lortab, oxycontin took about 2 weeks.  There is no way this far out your opiate W/D is still affecting you.

 

MG

[[Fi...]]

Thanks, Prettydaisys.  One symptom I'm sure is benzo related is a sort of cramping of my chest I refer to on my own charts as "weird back pain," but it seems like what some people call an anxiety attack.  It doesn't happen when I'm particularly anxious, just comes out of the blue and seems to have a huge component of anxiety involved.  I feel like my body must be flooded with lots of stress and anxiety hormones.  I had the worst attack ten days off of Xanax and realized  after reading stories here on BB that this was something I'd been having in a smaller way during the time I was building tolerance to Xanax.  I took Xanax for five years but such a relatively small amount--1.5mg over the course of a week--that I didn't realize I'd become hooked.

 

One symptom has  been persistent but I'm not sure which it's related to. I first noticed it as I was doing a rapid taper from Oxycodone.  The backs of my thighs get a burning pain.  I've never found anyone else who describes this exact thing.  I wonder if it's my own peculiar wiring because I've always noticed ( my whole life) that if I hear a shocking story about pain, when I wince, a pain shoots through the backs of my thighs along these very same neuro pathways.  I took my last crumb of Oxycodone around New Years of 2013.  By July these pains had pretty much subsided but I was still getting jerked around in other ways.  When I went off the Xanax at the end of August, the  leg pains came back strong.  Just reading what I've written here, I guess that would look like it's about the Xanax, and when it cropped up earlier it may have been about tolerance.

 

Seriously, I have practically been tethered to my two heating pads that I always sit or lie on.  I'd say that has been my go-to source of comfort.

 

I guess it's standard to obsess about the various symptoms but the longer I go, the easier it is to accept that EVERYTHING is about withdrawal and it doesn't really matter if I track it or figure it out! 

 

Mountain girl--I'm thinking now my symptoms at this point are more about Xanax than Oxycodone, but the doc writing the book about opioid addiction which contained the clearest description of the waves of PAWS says that it takes a full two years clean before you're well.  Of course when people are coming off different things, you can't always sort it out, but I think people feel miserable and crave their opiates for two years and that's why people have such a hard time getting off that stuff.  If it were really just a month long ordeal, there wouldn't be so many people relapsing. 

 

Hey, my hat's off to you for all you've been through.  Thanks for taking time to answer me.

[[...]]

 

One symptom has  been persistent but I'm not sure which it's related to. I first noticed it as I was doing a rapid taper from Oxycodone.  The backs of my thighs get a burning pain.  I've never found anyone else who describes this exact thing.  I wonder if it's my own peculiar wiring because I've always noticed ( my whole life) that if I hear a shocking story about pain, when I wince, a pain shoots through the backs of my thighs along these very same neuro pathways.

 

Finally, the above sentence caught my attention.  Have you looked into the work of Dr. John E. Sarno?  He's written several books about the mindbody connection, and you can find a lot of Youtube videos as well.  I read three of his books about four times each and really spent much time and effort investing in his theory.  Unfortunately, I was out of luck, but your situation sounds like you could really benefit from it.  No harm in trying! 

[[Fi...]]

Thanks, ABCD.  I'm always open to books on this subject so I'll check it out.

[[Be...]]

I have very similar issues with my neck and shoulder muscles, and much earlier in the withdrawal process it included my knees and lower back as well. I have been completely off for 1 year and 6 months and the most prevalent physical symptoms that I have now are tightness and pain in my shoulders and neck, granted most of the pain is on the left side of my upper body. In my case I experience some moderate swelling at times and the pain varies from aching, to burning, and sometimes sharp. Once the muscle gets triggered by stress or a particular motion it just tightens up permanently and that is when swelling and pain begin. Before my benzo use and recovery I use to exercise most days of the week, and like another person said, I feel like I am an old man now! Some literature suggests that these symptoms are a type of fibromyalgia-like physiological issue, which are of course caused by a damaged GABA and Glutimate system. Right now I am working with a physical therapist to stretch and strenthen my muscles in that area, but I haven't seen much improvement in 1 year's time. At times I can't even jog and I absolutely can't touch free weights. Considering most of my other symptoms have gone away, I expect this one will get better with time as well. Unfortunately my diet has been lacking as well as my supplementation, and I agree that those are really important in recovery.

[[la...]]

The end of November, I will be 18 months off of Klonopin.  Yes, I feel better, as physical symptoms, for me, were far and away the worst.  They have disappeared or gotten better in most cases, but...the muscle tightness is still very much an issue for me.  Stress definitely makes it worse, but it never really goes away.  I keep on going hoping that eventually it will.  What else can I do.

 

[[mo...]]

Yes, lower back and hips stiffness and soreness are 24/7 for me, I can't even bend over at the waist anymore.  Other symptoms have come and gone, but that is one of the ones that's stayed.  I had one moment during a bodywork session where it dissipated.  For about 30 or 45 seconds, something switched inside me, and the ear ringing, brainstem weirdness/pressure, hard knot in my upper abdomen, and lower back stiffness all released at once.  I feel those symptoms are all completely connected, originating from the same benzo-screwed source in my system.

 

[[Wo...]]

I just not sure if its just regular back pain or if its being magnified by the withdrawal. Maybe I'll never know.