Help with a taper plan, on 8-10mgs of xanax. my doctor is cutting me rapidly.

[[lo...]]

2 weeks ago I went in for my normal med refill, and a doctor I have never seen before comes in and tell me he is decreasing my xanax from 8-10mgs a day to 6mgs. I asked for time and maybe for something else to help with withdraws and to help with my agoraphobia and panic attacks. He told me I was a junkie and I could either take what he is giving me and deal with the withdraws myself or go to another doctor. Do to the high dose of xanax no other doctor will see me and I have yet to start decreasing my dosage I am terrified. Before I was on xanax I was house bound and mainly bound to my bed room, even leaving to use the bathroom would cause intense panic. I have lived on them for so long and I have read the withdraws, I am a single mom of 2 sons ages 14 and 2. I have no support system. I am so scared I will have a seizure and no one will know or my boys will see me. I have read the 10%-25% taper but am unsure how it works. How much to take off, how bad the withdraws will be. I was given vistaral 25mgs 4xs a day, but am afraid to take them.

[Guest [ba...]]

Seizures are very rare.  I wish people would realize this.  Unless you have a history of seizures, the probability is very small.  The concern only fuels fear and panic - two things that you really don't need.

 

Reducing from 10 to 6 mg per day is a fairly big jump.  You could reduce the size of that jump if you begin to taper down right now.  I don't know how much more of the 10 mg/day dose that you have, so cannot speculate on a taper that might work for you.  A good start might be to limit yourself to 8 (not 9 or 10) mg a day for a week or two, then drop to 7 or 7.5 depending on how much of the old med you have laying around.  After a week or two you'd drop again (again depending on how much of the old med you have laying around).  If you can get yourself down to 6.5 using your old stuff, then when you start the new 6.0 mg/day stuff, the jump will be less than 10%.  You might well have some withdrawal symptoms, but probably not as much as a 40% drop. 

 

Equally important to getting your dose reduced is to get some support for your panic/agoraphobia.  Nobody wants you to go back to being homebound.

[[Ju...]]

badsocref gave you some good suggestions.  I'd begin my taper now and try to get my dosage down to 6mg as your doctor prescribed.  What I found I could manage was .50mg drops, every 2 weeks, when I tapered from 6mgs to 3mg.  So, my starting dose was lower than yours so you might be able to manage a 1mg drop to start off.  I'd try dropping one of my pills, (1mg only), and hold that dose for approx 10 to 14 days.  I generally did not even notice I made a drop for 4-5 days.  Then my body gave an uptick in symptoms as I felt the cut.  This usually took 1-3 days to settle back down again.  After the symptoms settled down, I reduced my dosage again and repeated the process.

 

As we get lower in dose, we want to begin cutting smaller.  I tried to keep my reductions less than 10%, always cutting an even amount of pill.  I used a pill cutter to cut my pills and when I got to 1.5mg, I asked my doctor to prescribe the .25mg Xanax tablets because they were easier to cut into small dose reductions.

 

The seizures I've seen experienced by people here on the board occurred during rapid tapers or cold turkeys.  And even then, these are rare.  If I had my taper to do over again, I would not be afraid, knowing what I know now.  You will be fine if you just reduce your dose in a reasonable manner, (5-10% of dose), and take breaks between dosage reductions of about 10 to 14 days.

 

Please keep posting for support. 

[[lo...]]

thank you for the info on seizures. they have been my biggest concern. so i get the 2mg bars they are divided in 4 sections, i thought about taking the end off each pill thats would be .5mgs off but i feel like that is a big jump. do i take some off every pill? maybe half of the end section? o have about 30 pills "chipmucked" back that i would take any left overs and put them in another bottle.

[[Ju...]]

thank you for the info on seizures. they have been my biggest concern. so i get the 2mg bars they are divided in 4 sections, i thought about taking the end off each pill thats would be .5mgs off but i feel like that is a big jump. do i take some off every pill? maybe half of the end section? o have about 30 pills "chipmucked" back that i would take any left overs and put them in another bottle.

 

I'd try a .50mg reduction first then, if this is what you are comfortable with.  This would be 1/4 of a 2mg bar.  And you'd only reduce the full daily dose by .50mg.  Not a reduction from all doses taken within a given day.  Full dose only.  So if you regularly take 10mgs a day spread out through the day, you'd reduce your daily consumption to 9.5mg for 8 to 14 days, maintaining the exact same dose each day, not taking any as-needed medicine.  Then after that 10 to 14 days was up, you'd do another dose reduction and so forth. 

 

I don't believe you have nearly enough pills you've stockpiled back, for a reasonable taper.  Is your regular doctor going to help you once you get your dose to 6mgs?  If not, I'd begin my search for a new doctor now.  You can definitely taper Xanax if you set your mind to do so, but you will need a continued prescription to do so safely.  Good luck!

 

 

[[lo...]]

I have been doing good about only take 8mgs a day, I usually only take 10mgs if i have a nocturnal panic attack and it wakes me up and I can not fall back asleep. right now I have 90 pills and I see my doctor in less then 2 weeks for another 90. I am going to try and talk to them about maybe giving me 4 a day instead of the 4-6 hours so I can taper down slowly. I am still trying to find another doctor that will work with me. I am very scared to take that first pill with a piece cut off, I am so scared things will go back to me not being able to leave my room and the constant panic, I want to be off meds so badly I know they have changed the why my mind works and I think they are more harm then good now. I am thiking of this as my taper plan for now. please share what you think. I am going to go based on 8mgs a day.

Morning: 2mg

Lunch: 1.75mg (i think that is right, i will be cutting half of a .5mg section off)

Evening: 1.75mg

Bedtime: 2mg

(then keeping the halfs of the .5mgs incase of a noctural attack at night, if not will not take them, but giving me .5mgs to take to help fall back asleep)

 

Does this sound safe and a good start?

[[Ju...]]

Glad your doctor will continue to prescribe.  You might ask him for the 1mg tabs when you get to 5mg in your taper.  This way you can decrease your cut size when needed.

 

Your initial taper to 7.5 looks good.

 

I would stop any as-needed dosing.  Not for nocturnal panic attacks, not for anything really.  This as-needed dosing can actually backfire with us on benzos and cause the benzo being dosed as-needed to cause symptoms like this.  I did not updose or rescue dose in this manner even once during my taper.  I learned to deal with my symptoms without reaching for a benzo.  This was an extremely valuable lesson.

 

I don't know about your story, but I took benzos for insomnia.  But by the time I suffered for years with Xanax tolerance, (unbeknownst to me at the time), I was an anxiety ridden, agoraphobic mess.  So, the benzo actually created these problems for me.

 

I'm fine now that I've tapered off, but I certainly wasn't when I was taking a high dose of Xanax.  A taper off might help you more than you can imagine, just like it did me.

 

 

[[lo...]]

I have panic attacks very badly even on this high of a dose, agoraphobia some days I can't even go out front with my dog. Over the last few years and now I am thinking these are all cause by the benzo's because I never used to have them I can't be bright lights. I literally spend my day watching movies laying on a bed I made on my floor in the dark. TV not very loud, my stomach is always upset I go days not eating I have to force myself to eat and drink. I play world of warcraft and it keeps my mind busy. I used to make art but I can't leave to get supplies. I have random pins and needles for no reason. When I do panic I get sick. I feel detached and everything seems surreal most of the time. I did drink a lot lost summer I am almost a year sober, This time last year I lost my best friend and safe person, 27 year every day hanging out with someone. July I lost my grandma. My family ignores me because it's easier then "dealing" with me. I'm in a relationship I need to get away from as bad as I do the benzos. I wish It was a less stressful time to start a taper. I take my xanax every 4 hours like clock work, when I try and go 5 hours I feel like I'm crawling out of my skin.

[[Ju...]]

Your story sounds similar to mine.  And no, if the Xanax is causing the panic, it won't likely help except at much higher doses than where our tolerance lies.  And herein lies the benzo trap.  We're caught on a medication where we are constantly having to escalate our dose to higher and higher to keep withdrawal symptoms away.  There comes a time when a doctor says, no more.  I got off before that point, but it was the main reason I decided to taper off.  I wanted to withdraw on my own terms.  And I accomplished this.

 

You sound like you are experiencing classic benzo withdrawal symptoms even on your regular dose.  I was just like you. 

 

And I was in deep denial about the benzos turning me into almost being a recluse.  My precious sleep remedy, how could anything that gave me sleep hurt?  But it did, boy did it.  It wasn't that I was afraid to leave the house, I just didn't want to and it made me feel uneasy and anxious to leave.  So I avoided facing the anxiety and stayed home.  It was more comfortable.

 

My most troubling symptoms were physical though.  I did have some anxiety that appeared about 4-5 days after I made a dose reduction though.  But I've yet to ever have a panic attack.  My physical symptoms were body and joint pain and migraine headaches. 

 

Your upset tummy sounds familiar too.  There are a ton of GABA receptors in our digestive tract and many folks, including me experience GI upset.  I added a probiotic for my stomach and this helped me a lot.  Some folks also say that regular dosing of a probiotic may help with anxiety because of the brain-gut connection of these symptoms.

 

I'm sorry about the loss of your friend and grandma.  I know that is hard.  But if you decide to taper all the way off, you'll be doing something wonderful for your health.  My taper was really my last shot of something to try to enable to give me a normal life back.  I'm able to do anything I want now.  Drive, go to parties, travel, make plans.  I'd lost all of those things and now I can do them again.  You'll get there too if you just set your mind to completing the taper. 

[[lo...]]

reading that give me so much hope! I have felt so alone and I was so scared of the panic I didn't care they just kept upping my dose, for what? for one day they decide to "pull the rug out" from under me? I have more physical symptoms as well and I obsess over them thinking it's a stoke or heart attack. The panic attacks I have had come and go I can feel a panic attack end with this it's all day and night, never ending. The more I read benzo withdraw the more I realized what I was feeling wasn't caused by ,y panic but the thing that was supposed to be "fixing me". I know the road is long, and it will be anything but easy, I not only want off the benzos I need off them. When they told me about cutting me I panicked and not a panic attack I was more worried about my pills. I didn't know about the GABA receptors in the GI tract, but makes sense I often at time when I get nervous have to run the to the bathroom. When I am upset I spend a lot of time in the bathroom.

 

A symptom I have a lot and I notice it most when I wake up it my joints in my hands and feet hurt. One thing I have always done is say I take my last pill at 1am, I will not take my 1st pill until 1pm. I always convinced myself that it was my way of letting the xanax get out of my system so I wouldn't build a tolerance.

 

I was going to ask my doctor about being given klonopin to replace the xanax, but the more I read the more I thin k benzo free is the best thing and dealing with my panic by facing it.

[[Ju...]]

One thing I would suggest is IF you've done any as-needed dosing within the last week, rather than reducing your dose, I'd work on stabilizing my dose first.  I'd pick the average dose I'd been taking per day for the last week and take the exact same dose for a good week before I started reducing by .50mg.  A brief period of stabilizing like this might give you an easier experience.

 

I'm so glad I could help! 

[[lo...]]

Thank you so so much! I might try the vistaril 25mgs if I have a nocturnal panic attack, so I don't need any as needed. 

[[ba...]]

2 weeks ago I went in for my normal med refill, and a doctor I have never seen before comes in and tell me he is decreasing my xanax from 8-10mgs a day to 6mgs. I asked for time and maybe for something else to help with withdraws and to help with my agoraphobia and panic attacks. He told me I was a junkie and I could either take what he is giving me and deal with the withdraws myself or go to another doctor. Do to the high dose of xanax no other doctor will see me and I have yet to start decreasing my dosage I am terrified. Before I was on xanax I was house bound and mainly bound to my bed room, even leaving to use the bathroom would cause intense panic. I have lived on them for so long and I have read the withdraws, I am a single mom of 2 sons ages 14 and 2. I have no support system. I am so scared I will have a seizure and no one will know or my boys will see me. I have read the 10%-25% taper but am unsure how it works. How much to take off, how bad the withdraws will be. I was given vistaral 25mgs 4xs a day, but am afraid to take them.

 

Hi lostday,

 

 

I'm going to go against the grain here, but I would suggest that seizures from high-dose benzo withdrawal are not uncommon at all.  You will need to be very careful in your taper.  I did an 11 month taper and had numerous simple partial seizures.  Take heed when taking prescriptive advice from so called authorities. 

 

Also, make sure you document your medical records.  (You were on an amount that could tranquilize a horse.  It's called passing the buck through intimidation.)  Most states require doctors to release all records and notes to patients. Unless you are not telling the whole truth, your original prescribing doctor is running scared.  Before you even begin your taper, request such records.  If your doctor does not comply, you can contact HIPPA, a federal government agency designed to facilitate such requests for the general populace. 

 

I wish you the best.

 

 

[[lo...]]

2 weeks ago I went in for my normal med refill, and a doctor I have never seen before comes in and tell me he is decreasing my xanax from 8-10mgs a day to 6mgs. I asked for time and maybe for something else to help with withdraws and to help with my agoraphobia and panic attacks. He told me I was a junkie and I could either take what he is giving me and deal with the withdraws myself or go to another doctor. Do to the high dose of xanax no other doctor will see me and I have yet to start decreasing my dosage I am terrified. Before I was on xanax I was house bound and mainly bound to my bed room, even leaving to use the bathroom would cause intense panic. I have lived on them for so long and I have read the withdraws, I am a single mom of 2 sons ages 14 and 2. I have no support system. I am so scared I will have a seizure and no one will know or my boys will see me. I have read the 10%-25% taper but am unsure how it works. How much to take off, how bad the withdraws will be. I was given vistaral 25mgs 4xs a day, but am afraid to take them.

 

Hi lostday,

 

 

I'm going to go against the grain here, but I would suggest that seizures from high-dose benzo withdrawal are not uncommon at all.  You will need to be very careful in your taper.  I did an 11 month taper and had numerous simple partial seizures.  Take heed when taking prescriptive advice from so called authorities. 

 

Also, make sure you document your medical records.  (You were on an amount that could tranquilize a horse.  It's called passing the buck through intimidation.)  Most states require doctors to release all records and notes to patients. Unless you are not telling the whole truth, your original prescribing doctor is running scared.  Before you even begin your taper, request such records.  If your doctor does not comply, you can contact HIPPA, a federal government agency designed to facilitate such requests for the general populace. 

 

I wish you the best.

 

 

Did you have seizures before? I noticed you don't have your dose or story really in your signature. I asked my doctor how after 9 years of being on the 8-10mg dose they could just cut me and the order to cut me was not his but the owner of the clinic.

 

What do you mean if I'm telling the whole truth? What would I lie about and why? I am sorry, I don't know if you had a bad expiration on here and I am sorry you had seizures. When I told my doctor that cut me I was scared that decreasing so rapidly I would have one he said they don't happen and was very dismissive of me. He told me I was addicted to the pills and they his clinic would not support my addiction and if I didn't like it to go somewhere else.

 

I told them they could test the levels in my blood do a pill count, I don't abuse my pills I don't drink. I don't even take anything else. I have been on disability since I was 18 because my agoraphobia and panic attacks were so bad I could not leave my bedroom at my moms and I did get better for awhile but over the last year I have been house bound and after reading information on xanax I have been having tolerance withdraws, for a very long time and when I wold tell my doctor the xanax didn't work I pretty much got ignored. I am on state provided insurance and go to a mental health clinic and they dismiss you very easy.

 

Im sorry you just came off very rude.

[[ea...]]

I believe that babyrex is wrong about this. Seizures are uncommon in benzo withdrawal. Yes, they do occasionally happen, but are more likely is the person has a history of seizures, drank alcohol, did other drugs, or went off a benzo cold turkey. They are extremely rare in people who taper off a benzo.

 

lostdaydreaming, I understand how difficult it is when you're on a state medical program. Those places are understaffed, short of money and frankly, they don't usually have the best doctors. Benzo tapers are widely misunderstood by most doctors, so many people design their own taper and present their plan to the doctor. As long as the plan is sensible, most doctors agree with them. There are few doctors these days who would refuse to help someone who wants to get off a benzo - many doctors see all too many patients who WANT benzos.

 

I understand your fear that a taper will make your symptoms worse. But it also possible that being on a benzo is making them worse! That is what happened to me. I didn't not feel depressed or anxious until I had been on a benzo several years. During my years on them, my depression got worse, and I had terrible anxiety as well. The only thing that improved, for me, was my sleep. Over the 26 months since my last benzo, my depression has disappeared, and my anxiety is down to what I consider a normal level. Only my sleep is worse, and I can live with that. Being benzo-free has been liberating, for me. Maybe it will be for you, too.

east

[[lo...]]

I believe that babyrex is wrong about this. Seizures are uncommon in benzo withdrawal. Yes, they do occasionally happen, but are more likely is the person has a history of seizures, drank alcohol, did other drugs, or went off a benzo cold turkey. They are extremely rare in people who taper off a benzo.

 

lostdaydreaming, I understand how difficult it is when you're on a state medical program. Those places are understaffed, short of money and frankly, they don't usually have the best doctors. Benzo tapers are widely misunderstood by most doctors, so many people design their own taper and present their plan to the doctor. As long as the plan is sensible, most doctors agree with them. There are few doctors these days who would refuse to help someone who wants to get off a benzo - many doctors see all too many patients who WANT benzos.

 

I understand your fear that a taper will make your symptoms worse. But it also possible that being on a benzo is making them worse! That is what happened to me. I didn't not feel depressed or anxious until I had been on a benzo several years. During my years on them, my depression got worse, and I had terrible anxiety as well. The only thing that improved, for me, was my sleep. Over the 26 months since my last benzo, my depression has disappeared, and my anxiety is down to what I consider a normal level. Only my sleep is worse, and I can live with that. Being benzo-free has been liberating, for me. Maybe it will be for you, too.

east

 

 

 

Yeah I have read a lot and the only way seizures seem to happen are medical history of them, or cold turkey. Or like you said other things. The don't seem to happen to anyone on a taper.

 

I see my doctor next week and I am hoping he will understand, I know he would he has been my doctor for 13 years and he was the one upping my dose, so he should be willing to help get me off! It's his boss that was so rude and just ugh. I don't know how a doctor that had never seen me before could walk in a do that. I'm still on the hunt for a understanding doctor it's hard my area is battling a RX abuse war people making fake RXs and also getting stuff just to sell. I am heavily tattooed so when the look at me it's oh "pill seeker".

 

I have no doubts the xanax is what causing me to feel so badly, I can't wait to be free of them.